Question for teliot??
Quote: kewljTeliot, I read on another site that your site (APHeat) is specifically tracking info from AP's with cookies...
Now I know what they mean by "the dark side has cookies."
Quote: WizardNow I know what they mean by "the dark side has cookies."
OMG. :)
If this were true, would anyone admit it? Possibly, but doubtful.Quote: kewljTeliot, I read on another site that your site (APHeat) is specifically tracking info from AP's with cookies and IP addresses and such for use in a specific way related to AP activities and security. I know there is a great deal of paranoia and dislike for you among the AP community, so I am wondering if you would like to comment on this?
How does a website know if someone is an AP? If this is something going on. It would be great for someone to explain how this can be done, how it works etc etc also how to avoid it. Is a VPN sufficient ?
Can I spoof Axiom's IP and visit Dark side websites ?
I get IPs from posted comments, but no IPs from general visitors. I usually don't check the IP unless someone posts a very negative comment. Then I like to know where they are posting from, but of course IPs are just generally geographic and not specific. I take a comment much more seriously if it is from the Las Vegas region, or another major gaming jurisdiction.Quote: kewljTeliot, I read on another site that your site (APHeat) is specifically tracking info from AP's with cookies and IP addresses and such for use in a specific way related to AP activities and security. I know there is a great deal of paranoia and dislike for you among the AP community, so I am wondering if you would like to comment on this?
As far as cookies, I really have no idea what people are talking about if they're saying something like that. You can visit www.wordpress.com (the site that hosts my blog) for privacy information.
As far as APs being paranoid, you've got that right.
Wordpress gives a log file of the clicks to my site via external hyperlinks to my site, and what these links point at. They also give hit-rates for the various articles I post. It would be naive to think that I don't look at these stats.
Quote: AxelWolfIf this were true, would anyone admit it? Possibly, but doubtful.
Of course not. I just thought it would be fun to hear teliot's thoughts and give him a chance to respond, which he has now done, more or less along the lines that I expected.
As long as the host does not collect and sell the info to a third party, I am not worried.
I trust the Wizard and teliot are not selling those.
This is false for blogs hosted at WordPress.com. I do not have access to a widget that does that, they limit the widgets available to users. Nor do I have access to logfiles.Quote: pokerfaceAny website including this one can track IPs.
As long as the host does not collect and sell the info to a third party, I am not worried.
I trust the Wizard and teliot are not selling those.
Also, is the assumption that everyone who reads his site in an AP?
Quote: teliotI get IPs from posted comments, but no IPs from general visitors. I usually don't check the IP unless someone posts a very negative comment. Then I like to know where they are posting from, but of course IPs are just generally geographic and not specific. I take a comment much more seriously if it is from the Las Vegas region, or another major gaming jurisdiction.
As far as cookies, I really have no idea what people are talking about if they're saying something like that. You can visit www.wordpress.com (the site that hosts my blog) for privacy information.
As far as APs being paranoid, you've got that right.
Wordpress gives a log file of the clicks to my site via external hyperlinks to my site, and what these links point at. They also give hit-rates for the various articles I post. It would be naive to think that I don't look at these stats.
That's very interesting; I tried to find the post on BJ21 linking to your site but it wasn't obvious on the first page. Would you mind posting the full URL? Only members will be able to access it (I have no idea if you're a member there or not).
To the OP, I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt Eliot is outright lying to us above, but even if he were, his options are limited. Even if he did have full access to his server logs and had a list of every IP, how would he classify those IPs into APs and non-APs? <crazy conspiracy>By cross-indexing with a network of other gambling sites and seeing which ones are in common? Perhaps he's in cahoots with the Wizard! So they compare notes...hey, this AcesAndEights guy has IP 192.168.0.15...hey that IP showed up in the apheat.net access logs too! Hmmm...now what.</crazy conspiracy>
Cookies are limited; it's not like a website can use "cookies" to steal your identity. I am a competent web developer and I can't think of anything a casino or a casino consulting company could do with a cookie on apheat.net.
EDIT: There was originally a screenshot of Eliot's inbound referrers in his post which I quoted, which is gone now. Which is totally fine, just explaining the context as my first paragraph looks a bit weird now. There was apparently a thread at the bj21.com green chip section linking to apheat.net
Gotta love the things people come up with.
ZCore13
Quote: BozAfter seeing how much info Revel shared with rest of AC about Super Mario, imagine what they know about Black Chip players. Hell some CZR players might have to start having to get Loveman to approve their comp usage.
maybe teliot sold marios info to bob dancer and then bob dancer gave it to the Revel and then Revel shared it with showboat and showboat gave it to Borgata. I think I finally cracked how Mario got his heat.
Whenever I ran my website I would look at my IP and link logs daily. As an owner you really want to see where your customers are coming from. I had the IPs and basic location but I had no idea who was who. Now if there is something criminal going on the FBI could track you down based on IP but I don't think the basic web owner would have that ability.
ETA: OBVIOUSLY the first paragraph was just a joke.
Quote: GWAEmaybe teliot sold marios info to bob dancer and then bob dancer gave it to the Revel and then Revel shared it with showboat and showboat gave it to Borgata. I think I finally cracked how Mario got his heat.
Whenever I ran my website I would look at my IP and link logs daily. As an owner you really want to see where your customers are coming from. I had the IPs and basic location but I had no idea who was who. Now if there is something criminal going on the FBI could track you down based on IP but I don't think the basic web owner would have that ability.
That's flame bait. Maybe I should just flame myself so that others don't get banned by doing so. I wonder if I could get banned for insulting myself?Quote: BuzzardBut I would never question his INTEGRITY.
Quote: teliotThat's flame bait. Maybe I should just flame myself so that others don't get banned by doing so. I wonder if I could get banned for insulting myself?
I thought it was a compliment?
Basic humor from a math guy. :)
ZCore13
Yes, exactly.Quote: Zcore13I think telliot was joking. I think he's saying that generally anytime someone brings his name up for any reason, even a compliment, it brings out the naysayers.
Touche, Teliot. Well played.
Quote: BuzzardGee, here I am the master of sarcasm and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
Touche, Teliot. Well played.
hahahaha me to.
Quote: BuzzardI have Eliot in person and I can usually spot a phony at a thousand paces. He can be a little overbearing at times in that math is second nature to him. But I would never question his INTEGRITY. not in the least.
There are few people in advantage play circles who have less integrity. Eliot Jacobson ran an AP website for years and then sold* out as a casino consultant. That's what integrity isn't. Selling out your friends is pretty much the definition of a lack of integrity.
*I say "sold" but it doesn't seem that many casinos actually want to buy his information.
Do you see now what I meant by "flame bait" Buzzard?Quote: GBVThere are few people in advantage play circles who have less integrity. Eliot Jacobson ran an AP website for years and then sold* out as a casino consultant. That's what integrity isn't. Selling out your friends is pretty much the definition of a lack of integrity.
*I say "sold" but it doesn't seem that many casinos actually want to buy his information.
Cheers.
apparently unaware of the fact I can simply create another id.
What I stated above is simply the facts: Eliot Jacobson ran, for a long time, cardcounter.com.
He then started work as a casino consultant. I was never a serious contributor, but many
card counters who shared information with him, which he then passed on, felt betrayed.
This is all a matter of public record and can be checked in the archives of various gambling
websites. It would be fair to say that on AP websites he is generally despised, to put it
mildly. Unlike say Steve Forte, or Bill Zender, he is not considered a competent or professional game
analyst.
The fact that Jacobson has in this case presumably arranged with an administrator the censorship
of legitimate criticism gives you an indication of the essential character of the man.
If this is taken down I will re-post it a hundred thousand times if necessary.
Quote: GBV1I'd have left this thread here, but some administrator has decided to ban me for the forum,
apparently unaware of the fact I can simply create another id.
What I stated above is simply the facts: Eliot Jacobson ran, for a long time, cardcounter.com.
He then started work as a casino consultant. I was never a serious contributor, but many
card counters who shared information with him, which he then passed on, felt betrayed.
This is all a matter of public record and can be checked in the archives of various gambling
websites. It would be fair to say that on AP websites he is generally despised, to put it
mildly. Unlike say Steve Forte, or Bill Zender, he is not considered a competent or professional game
analyst.
The fact that Jacobson has in this case presumably arranged with an administrator the censorship
of legitimate criticism gives you an indication of the essential character of the man.
If this is taken down I will re-post it a hundred thousand times if necessary.
I'm unsure of who banned you or why, but the admission of a dual account makes the banning of this one easy.
I'm also unsure of what you mean by "taken down". I think I caught your original post as soon as you posted it, and I see no change to it or deletion of its content. You, and apparently other APs, do not like Mr. Jacobson. Point made, and taken.
As an aside, I find the AP v Casino war interesting. The animosity especially. In my life I've had many instances of being on one side or another. Perhaps it was being a law breaker when young vs being a law upholder now. Maybe it was changing sports team to a cross town rival. Now it's auto racing. There's always a sense of competition, perhaps aggression, but it often has a low limit. Very much a "Sam and Ralph" type relationship. But AP vs Casino? Nothing short of the head of the enemy will suffice.
It's cute, in a way =) In any case, if there's any fault to be placed, some must lie with those who told secrets.
Quote: GBV1
If this is taken down I will re-post it a hundred thousand times if necessary.
I think you would get bored with it before posting it 100,000 times.
Quote: DRichI think you would get bored with it before posting it 100,000 times.
That's what cron jobs are for
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThat's what cron jobs are for
Yes, that would work until the user gets banned or his IP is blocked. Trying to set one up to log in as up to 100,000 different users would be quite a challenge plus I would assume he would have to keep spoofing different IP's.
Quote: DRichYes, that would work until the user gets banned or his IP is blocked. Trying to set one up to log in as up to 100,000 different users would be quite a challenge plus I would assume he would have to keep spoofing different IP's.
It all sounds scriptable to me. Create random name, go through proxy server, set up account, post.
Maybe I should not be giving people ideas.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt all sounds scriptable to me. Create random name, go through proxy server, set up account, post.
Maybe I should not be giving people ideas.
My bet is those who understand enough to be able to do this, have already thought of how they would do it.
The rest of the people who did not think of it, also have no idea how to pull it off.
In the end, no damage done.
#!/bin/sh
GBV[x], x = 0, 1, 2 ...
is now nuked?
Hence capcha.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt all sounds scriptable to me. Create random name, go through proxy server, set up account, post.
Quote: teliotHence capcha.
It's been a long time since I set up my account, so I don't remember (and it very well may have changed since then) Is there a captcha required to set up an account here?
I hate captchas. We really need a better turing test. I fail them myself half the time.
I will add that (assuming you're still reading), you had a right to express your views on this board in a factual way, which you almost did in the last post, but what triggered the minor suspensions 2 times before that was that you attacked the same person in a damaging and derogatory way, not his posts or POV. The nuclear ban was generated by your flagrant disregard for the multiple identities rule # 11.
As Mosca once said, "You start with respect. You earn disrespect."
Thanks. GBV is the baccarat author John May, he doesn't hide this. May mentioned a few advanced plays in his book "baccarat for the clueless," which is more than most authors do. However, his claims of having found an effective way to beat baccarat outright by counting the Tie bet didn't hold water. In particular, May really didn't like me for posting this on my blog.Quote: beachbumbabsGBV/GBV1 has been banned, nuclear option, for personal insult and creating multiple identities to avoid serving his suspension. No posts of his have been removed or edited.
In February, 2010, James Grosjean had this to say about John May’s system for beating the Tie bet in baccarat (ref. forums at beyondcounting.com):
Quote: JGFor you to continue to suggest that there is any money to be made counting the Tie bet does a disservice to the community. Your position is based on your stubbornness and refusal to admit that your thesis topic (Tie counting) is in fact a dead-end, but you never had the cold hard numbers to know that in the past. Now those numbers are available, but you don’t want to read them … I am quite confident in saying that I have written the last (competent) word on counting the Tie bet in baccarat.
Quote: mcallister3200The multiple identities was obvious but was brought on by the original ban, and where was the personal insult that originated the ban? A fact was stated, and his opinion about that fact which attacked the person's actions, not the person. More ridiculous ban than that of Roger Kint.
I'm no admin, but it seems pretty clear that saying that someone lacks integrity is a personal insult.
Quote: mcallister3200He said the action lacked integrity, not the person. Call it semantics if you want.
I understand the distinction, but I think he actually said both.
Quote: BuzzardBut I would never question his INTEGRITY
Quote: GBVThere are few people in advantage play circles who have less integrity.
I also think that the claims of censorship are a little ridiculous, since, while he was suspended and then nuked, his posts weren't deleted.
Quote: teliotThanks. GBV is the baccarat author John May, he doesn't hide this. May mentioned a few advanced plays in his book "baccarat for the clueless," which is more than most authors do. However, his claims of having found an effective way to beat baccarat outright by counting the Tie bet didn't hold water. In particular, May really didn't like me for posting this on my blog.
In February, 2010, James Grosjean had this to say about John May’s system for beating the Tie bet in baccarat (ref. forums at beyondcounting.com):
Teliot, this post seems pretty 'wrong' to me. First of all you are 'outing' a member, granted a now banned member, but is that your place to do so??
Second, didn't John May also publish blackjack books? (I am assuming the same John May). I don't know this person, nor his status, as an AP, professional, or other, but he seems to be indicating that you wronged him in the past, with your so called 'turncoat' actions. Again, I don't know whether that is true or not. But it seems a possible legitimate gripe.
So rather than answer this poster's (GBV) concerns, you now wait until he is banned and now want to attack HIS credibility, knowing that he is unable to respond. Sir this seems kind of 'small' of you.
To wiz & moderators: I would hope you would review the circumstances of this nuclear suspension. Yes, GBV clearly broke the multiple identity or names rule and for that he should be suspended. But really, I am not sure what his initial suspension was for? He seemed to have a legitimate gripe with Mr Jacobson and expressed it in a fairly civilized way. I mean is that what this site is really to become? This is just disappointing.
Quote: kewljTeliot, this post seems pretty 'wrong' to me. First of all you are 'outing' a member, granted a now banned member, but is that your place to do so??
What are the rules on this anyway? GBV's identity has been pretty well known for a while -- I don't think that he hid it either.
Having said that, the Wizard did once warn Mickey about posting Bob Dancer's real name, and I think he deleted the post (even though it's well-known, easily found through a google search, and was, at the time, on wikipedia, although it's now been removed).
Quote: GBV1I'd have left this thread here, but some administrator has decided to ban me for the forum,
apparently unaware of the fact I can simply create another id.
If this is taken down I will re-post it a hundred thousand times if necessary.
LOL. Maybe this is not really the genuine GBV.
Not taking sides but GBV's issue(s) with teliot is a pretty valid gripe. Just too bad he is permanently banned.
Quote: mcallister3200He said the action lacked integrity, not the person. Call it semantics if you want.
I'm afraid, in this case, it does come down to semantics, as AoC noted below.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI understand the distinction, but I think he actually said both.
Quote: Buzzard
But I would never question his INTEGRITY
Quote: GBV
There are few people in advantage play circles who have less integrity.
Quote: kewljTeliot, this post seems pretty 'wrong' to me. First of all you are 'outing' a member, granted a now banned member, but is that your place to do so??
Second, didn't John May also publish blackjack books? (I am assuming the same John May). I don't know this person, nor his status, as an AP, professional, or other, but he seems to be indicating that you wronged him in the past, with your so called 'turncoat' actions. Again, I don't know whether that is true or not. But it seems a possible legitimate gripe.
So rather than answer this poster's (GBV) concerns, you now wait until he is banned and now want to attack HIS credibility, knowing that he is unable to respond. Sir this seems kind of 'small' of you.
To wiz & moderators: I would hope you would review the circumstances of this nuclear suspension. Yes, GBV clearly broke the multiple identity or names rule and for that he should be suspended. But really, I am not sure what his initial suspension was for? He seemed to have a legitimate gripe with Mr Jacobson and expressed it in a fairly civilized way. I mean is that what this site is really to become? This is just disappointing.
mcallister and kewlj,
I would be happy for the Wizard to take a look at this and mitigate it if he wants to. It was a difficult situation, as noted, in that there does appear to be a feud going well outside this board, but again, GBV attacked teliot personally, which caused both of his previous suspensions. GBV was more expansive and impersonal (though obviously still critical) in his GBV1 explanation, but circumvented the multiple identity rule, with its mandatory expulsion factor, deliberately in order to be heard immediately. Had he waited out his term and then posted, I believe it was suitably framed to remain uncontested as a point of disagreement with teliot's methods and not addressed on a personal level, and there could have been further argument from both sides as long as it remained above a personal attack level. But I think rule 11 was designed specifically to stop a person from doing exactly what GBV/GBV1 did, for the reason he did it, and I have to respect the Wizard's rule on expulsion for cause.
This progression of moderation is dictated by the rules as published and has precedence in its application. As such, I am held to a fair and equal implementation standard. Your comments are not being ignored, but I have to stand with what I've done to this point. As for what this implies for the future of the board, it's been administered with rule 11 in place for a couple of years, so I don't see a significant future impact compared to how it is now. I do expect vigorous debate and opposing points of view, and that could have developed here without interference, but when the attacks get personal, the discussion gets moderated.
Quote: GBV1
What I stated above is simply the facts: Eliot Jacobson ran, for a long time, cardcounter.com.
He then started work as a casino consultant. I was never a serious contributor, but many
card counters who shared information with him, which he then passed on, felt betrayed.
This is all a matter of public record and can be checked in the archives of various gambling
websites. It would be fair to say that on AP websites he is generally despised, to put it
mildly.
Could someone comment on this? Is this accurate?
I have shared information about various AP methods that I learned as an AP from any number of sources. I think that's fairly obvious. I have never identified anyone I knew as an AP during my playing days.Quote: GreasyjohnCould someone comment on this? Is this accurate?
Quote: teliotI have shared information about various AP methods that I learned as an AP from any number of sources. I think that's fairly obvious. I have never identified anyone I knew as an AP during my playing days.
I'll say this, I was a regular member of your forum for three years or so when you had cardcounter.com. And I have always thought of you as a decent, knowledgable person. I didn't know that you had a handle on this forum until this thread.
