$50k cash or $50k slot play (to avoid taxes)?
Poll
 | 6 votes (50%) | ||
| | 6 votes (50%) |
12 members have voted
1st place = $50k cash
don't know if the casino will give you 50k free slot play instead if you asked.
the reason why you might want slot play instead: no w2g form for free slot play. save at least 28% fed taxes
the casino has $5 Deuces Wild (dw44- 98.91%).
it also has 98% $1 Blazing 7's progressive slot machines. resets at $1000 and frequently goes over $1100.
(yeah, don't play if it's $1200+)
So which would you take? $50k cash or $50k free slot play?
I'm with the previous poster and agree that you're probably getting a W2G for the free play. It was my understanding you get one for any drawing or prize received that is valued over $600 I think? You win a $1,000 new flat screen tv, or win a car, win a cruise, etc and you'll be getting a w2g for all of that. With all of that being said why do you think you would not get a w2g for the free play?
Quote: pokerfacethe casino will give you a 1099, which makes you not even able to claim the loss deduction
Wow. Why is that?
Quote: odiousgambitWow. Why is that?
All casinos I have been to clearly state on the free-play vouchers, the amount shown '"has no cash value."
I see plenty of $1,000 free-play offers and none of them have been reportable items where I must fill anything out.
Cars, boats, other tangible prizes all have cash value (like the guy on the price is right will always say "and the total value of your prize package is,,,")
Quote: SOOPOOI'm betting you get a tax form whichever way the casino gives you the $50k.
not at my casino, at least for $1500 free slot play. (I asked in a previous drawing that gave away this amount every 1/2 hr for 10hrs to 5people each drawing.)
Quote: BozAnother issue to consider is if you earn points and comps on Free Play. Caesars finally changed it where you do not earn anything on free play. At Cosmo they still give comp dollars on Free Play which would make the decision even easier.
nope, no points on free play.
at 98% return machine, you're paying a 2% 'tax' instead of a 28% Fed tax + state tax, if any.
Quote: 100xOddsnope, no points on free play.
at 98% return machine, you're paying a 2% 'tax' instead of a 28% Fed tax + state tax, if any.
Just remember, legally you still have to declare those winnings on your tax return.
Quote: DRichJust remember, legally you still have to declare those winnings on your tax return.
hahah hahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
HAHAHAHAH HAHAHA HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAAHAHAHAHAH...
but if serious, go preach somewhere else
Quote: 100xOddshahah hahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
HAHAHAHAH HAHAHA HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAAHAHAHAHAH...
but if serious, go preach somewhere else
I am completely serious, but definitely not preaching. It is surprising to me how many people think you only have to declare winnings when you get an IRS form.
Quote: DRichI am completely serious, but definitely not preaching. It is surprising to me how many people think you only have to declare winnings when you get an IRS form.
I figure that if you're going to steal money, the IRS is really the wrong target. You might want to pick someone without the means or the inclination to make your life a living hell.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI figure that if you're going to steal money, the IRS is really the wrong target. You might want to pick someone without the means or the inclination to make your life a living hell.
But first you have to give them a reason and unless the casino reports this, which they cannot without the proper forms (1099), there is no way they know about it. All of this is assuming you have other income and file a return that looks legitimate.
Quote: 100xOddshahah hahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
HAHAHAHAH HAHAHA HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAAHAHAHAHAH...
but if serious, go preach somewhere else
A factually correct statement intending to educate the masses against a common myth is preaching?
Whatever. I hope you're audited a thousand times.
Casinos in Vegas don't make you fill out any tax forms when you receive free play (At least not that I'm aware of). Supposedly the max a casino can give to an individual in one day, in free play is 20k. So they would have to split up 50k into 3 days.Quote: BozAnother issue to consider is if you earn points and comps on Free Play. Caesars finally changed it where you do not earn anything on free play. At Cosmo they still give comp dollars on Free Play which would make the decision even easier.
I'm sure the IRS will be watching you from now on.
If you had 50k in FP and played it in any short period of time the casino should be doing a CTR on you anyways. If you cash it small amounts at a time, don't forget about structuring laws.
Unless you are going to hide your 50k, how do you explain the sudden influx of cash?
Quote: sabreA factually correct statement intending to educate the masses against a common myth is preaching?
Whatever. I hope you're audited a thousand times.
This +100.
Quote: sabreWhatever. I hope you're audited a thousand times.
It only takes one time...
Another issue to consider is if you earn points and comps on Free Play. Caesars finally changed it where you do not earn anything on free play. At Cosmo they still give comp dollars on Free Play which would make the decision even easier.
Casinos in Vegas don't make you fill out any tax forms when you receive free play (At least not that I'm aware of). Supposedly the max a casino can give to an individual in one day, in free play is 20k. So they would have to split up 50k into 3 days.
I'm sure the IRS will be watching you 100xOdds from now on.
If you had 50k in FP and played it in any short period of time the casino should be doing a CTR on you anyways. If you cash it small amounts at a time, don't forget about structuring laws.
Unless you are going to hide your 50k, how do you explain the sudden influx of cash?
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: Boz
Another issue to consider is if you earn points and comps on Free Play. Caesars finally changed it where you do not earn anything on free play. At Cosmo they still give comp dollars on Free Play which would make the decision even easier.
Casinos in Vegas don't make you fill out any tax forms when you receive free play (At least not that I'm aware of). Supposedly the max a casino can give to an individual in one day, in free play is 20k. So they would have to split up 50k into 3 days.
I'm sure the IRS will be watching you 100xOdds from now on.
If you had 50k in FP and played it in any short period of time the casino should be doing a CTR on you anyways. If you cash it small amounts at a time, don't forget about structuring laws.
Unless you are going to hide your 50k, how do you explain the sudden influx of cash?
WELL it's not like not playing through your FP would be structuring. Once it's in some form of currency (TITO or table chips) then it can be structured. But it has no monetary value when it's in the form of free play.
But still, that'd mean you'd have at least 5 sessions to play it through to get ~< 10k each session. That'll still produce lots of SARs. Hell, even if you do 2k for 25 days you'll get some SARs I'd imagine.
That is okay, if I hit the Grand Super Duper Jackpot of Umpteen Zillion Dollars on my very last "free spin" it is still more than the fifty K I started with plus in the interim there sure would be a few satisfied Tray Lizards. After I hid that Super Duper Jackpot, it would be impossible to keep the Tray Lizards at bay!Quote: IbeatyouracesEven if they did give free play, it most likely would be broken up into monthly installments.
I have rarely been hustled by cocktail waitresses. I would have to say out of all the casino employees that work the floor and can except tips they are the least offended when not getting a piece of a jackpot.Quote: FleaStiffThat is okay, if I hit the Grand Super Duper Jackpot of Umpteen Zillion Dollars on my very last "free spin" it is still more than the fifty K I started with plus in the interim there sure would be a few satisfied Tray Lizards. After I hid that Super Duper Jackpot, it would be impossible to keep the Tray Lizards at bay!
Quote: RSThis +100.
Actually the 2 of you are total assholes and should apply for "low level" jobs in Cleveland. See you in 3 days. And I do hope you find work soon!
?? Did I miss something?Quote: BozActually the 2 of you are total assholes and should apply for "low level" jobs in Cleveland. See you in 3 days. And I do hope you find work soon!
Quote: AxelWolf?? Did I miss something?
I was wondering the same thing.
BTW, I grew up in Cleveland and definitely don't wish for anyone to have to go there.
Quote: AxelWolf?? Did I miss something?
I think that Boz is saying that only people who make more money than him should have to pay taxes; it's ok if everyone else lies and cheats and steals.
Ah, after rereading, I think he was upset people were wished an audit upon the OP.Quote: DRichI was wondering the same thing.
BTW, I grew up in Cleveland and definitely don't wish for anyone to have to go there.
And trust me. Or I can post it if needed. I pay more than what I consider my "fair share" of taxes.
No one deserves an IRS audit? Not even people who cheat on their taxes?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of our current tax system, but if you don't enforce the rules, the honest people get shafted more so than usual.
Quote: BozActually the 2 of you are total assholes and should apply for "low level" jobs in Cleveland. See you in 3 days. And I do hope you find work soon!
Three days, personal insult. See you then, Boz.
Quote: 100xOddsfree raffle if you earn x amount of points in the previous month.
1st place = $50k cash
don't know if the casino will give you 50k free slot play instead if you asked.
the reason why you might want slot play instead: no w2g form for free slot play. save at least 28% fed taxes
the casino has $5 Deuces Wild (dw44- 98.91%).
it also has 98% $1 Blazing 7's progressive slot machines. resets at $1000 and frequently goes over $1100.
(yeah, don't play if it's $1200+)
So which would you take? $50k cash or $50k free slot play?
Are you Nuts or something.
What other time do casinos hand out cash. Free play we get all the time.
Tax has nothing to do with this. You pay tax on whatever is your final winning.
Is this kind of restriction (apart from my poor play on any machine) not common elsewhere?
Sidenote: Why are old people so reluctant to take W2-Gs? I've seen many banks of people playing till $1199.99 and then cashing out as soon as $1200 hits, not just on quarters but any other denomination. This young whippersnapper is clueless.
Quote: DrawingDeadThis is may be a side issue from what you were getting at, but "the casino has [insert 98% EV sumpin]." Hokay. But whenever I've gotten some freeplay, from X# of tier credits or some other similar casino promo thing, in order to launder it into cash I had to use specified freeplay/promo eligible machines/devices/games to do it. Freeplay wouldn't work on others. And if you are guessing those haven't been the ones people who are really into them would choose (my points come from other sorts of things) you'd sure be correct. Factoring in the effect of that along with my machine play incompetence puts that freeplay at well into double digit effective hold territory.
Is this kind of restriction (apart from my poor play on any machine) not common elsewhere?
I can not think of 1 casino that I have been to where your earned free play could not be used on nearly any machine in the casino.
Quote: GWAEQuote: DrawingDeadThis is may be a side issue from what you were getting at, but "the casino has [insert 98% EV sumpin]." Hokay. But whenever I've gotten some freeplay, from X# of tier credits or some other similar casino promo thing, in order to launder it into cash I had to use specified freeplay/promo eligible machines/devices/games to do it. Freeplay wouldn't work on others. And if you are guessing those haven't been the ones people who are really into them would choose (my points come from other sorts of things) you'd sure be correct. Factoring in the effect of that along with my machine play incompetence puts that freeplay at well into double digit effective hold territory.
Is this kind of restriction (apart from my poor play on any machine) not common elsewhere?
I can not think of 1 casino that I have been to where your earned free play could not be used on nearly any machine in the casino.
I saw stickers on some of the newest machines at the D in April that said they were not eligible for freeplay. Otherwise, I haven't seen that myself.
In particular, what about a freeroll tournament? Is that gambling, or similar to a drawing? What if the tournament has an entry fee, but they add money to the prize pool?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, I have a question about this. How do they determine whether you get a W2G or a 1099? Obviously it's a big difference; gambling winnings can have losses deducted against them.
In particular, what about a freeroll tournament? Is that gambling, or similar to a drawing? What if the tournament has an entry fee, but they add money to the prize pool?
from all of the ones I have seen. Whenever the casino is just giving you something like a drawing it is almost always a 1099. Tournaments and gambling winnings are w2g. Even if there is an overlay it should still be a w2g.
Quote: GWAEfrom all of the ones I have seen. Whenever the casino is just giving you something like a drawing it is almost always a 1099. Tournaments and gambling winnings are w2g. Even if there is an overlay it should still be a w2g.
But where is the dividing line? If they have a tournament with free entry and a $200k prize pool, it's a 1099, but if they charge everyone $1 to enter instead of making it free it's a W2G?
Interesting.Quote: GWAEQuote: DrawingDeadThis is may be a side issue from what you were getting at, but "the casino has [insert 98% EV sumpin]." Hokay. But whenever I've gotten some freeplay, from X# of tier credits or some other similar casino promo thing, in order to launder it into cash I had to use specified freeplay/promo eligible machines/devices/games to do it. Freeplay wouldn't work on others. And if you are guessing those haven't been the ones people who are really into them would choose (my points come from other sorts of things) you'd sure be correct. Factoring in the effect of that along with my machine play incompetence puts that freeplay at well into double digit effective hold territory.
Is this kind of restriction (apart from my poor play on any machine) not common elsewhere?
I can not think of 1 casino that I have been to where your earned free play could not be used on nearly any machine in the casino.
I, on the other hand, have never gotten freeplay that could be used at anything close to most of what's on the casino floor, anywhere, ever. Maybe related to me only being in Southern Nevada casinos. You wouldn't like the freeplay in any Caesars properties in Las Vegas, for one major example. I was a Diamond Card guy for several years, and therefore got regular annual freeplay proportionate to my TC/RC total as well as for particular promos, and all their VP is now set not to accept freeplay vouchers at all since last year (along with VBJ, IIRC) and prior to last year was restricted to only some VP machines with particularly unfavorable pay tables (so much so that even a machine dunce like me notices the comparison) or to a larger flock of eligible slots with holds that are unknowable to the customer. Just one notable example that comes to mind first, because I had a bunch to launder through them. But I couldn't tell you more recently than this March, because I fired them as an option (for other reasons) and let my Diamond expire to lowly Gold-peasant status this year.
If you want the other end of the market for an example, El Cortez has "special" banks with "this machine freeplay eligible" stickers on them, which are greatly outnumbered by those with more favorable pay tables (and no particular signage on them) to specifically name just one other. I can tell you exactly how/where to find them (the stingy freeplay ones) in the unlikely event anyone wants to know that.
ADDENDUM EDIT: Oh, but I did get both Reward Credits and Tier Credits in the Total Rewards system for my freeplay on the crappy machines at Caesars LV properties, oddly enough. They may have pulled the plug on that, or not, I don't know & won't be finding out anytime soon.
Quote: BeardgoatI can't believe there is a casino in the US that is giving away 50k in free play and not reporting this on a 1099. DRich would you be comofortable saying how much you've been given in free play that was not put on a 1099?
As I said It is 20k per person per day. I know a few casino that DO, do this on tournament winnings. they break up anything over 20k into multiple days. (won't out the casinos that do this)
The casino states up front that the winnings are payed in free play. So I'm not sure if the casino gets tagged for doing it this way (doubtful).
Winning a tournament that is originally designed to pay CASH, then giving free play instead might be a IRS NO NO.
Personally I don't think we should be rocking the boat by discussing this to much or they might change the current system. I don't want them to change it because I feel that casinos will give MORE if they are allowed to give free play instead of cash.
One draw back for the casinos, Free play is way less attractive to the poppies most people do not understand free play.
I wish all casinos would go to a free play for tournament system.
