Macau new smoking policy - What say you?
Poll
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| | 3 votes (23.07%) | ||
| | 2 votes (15.38%) | ||
| | 7 votes (53.84%) | ||
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13 members have voted
It states that there will be no more smoking allowed on the general floor (mass market) as of October thsi year. The casinos have asked for permission to be able to construct "smoking rooms" either on the floor or floor adjacent.
I believe the government has given them the green light to go ahead.
My question is as has been outlined in the opinion poll.
Do you think this will have a large effect on gaming as it has in almost every other jurisdiction where this has been tried or will it not affect revenues at all?
I went with large decline because the clientele seems to smoke heavy and a person can't be in two places. Some would go back to Vegas I'm sure, so yeah, what were they thinking?
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's almost as dangerous as banning speaking Chinese at the tables. What are they thinking?
I went with large decline because the clientele seems to smoke heavy and a person can't be in two places. Some would go back to Vegas I'm sure, so yeah, what were they thinking?
Here is my thoughts.
Any other jurisdiction I would agree with you, large hit but Macau is a different animal. Also Chinese are so crazy about gambling that is is almost ingrained into their culture (not that smoking isn't).
They would gamble no matter what happened it is just what they do.
I reasoned another way too. In my opinion Western people including Americans believe that it is their right to be able to smoke where they want. They will just as soon stay away from a casino to boycott their smoking ban than give themselves the pleasure of doing what they like (gambling). It is a "principle" thing with them.
I don't see the Asians having such a problem. They are very visceral....I like smoking but i LOVE gambling.
Perhaps revenues might take a very small dip but I believe it is full steam ahead for the largest gaming market on the planet.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's all good for Macau unless mainland China ever allows real casinos there. Makes me wonder how the gambling for prizes casino ever worked out. I haven't heard anything about the Chuck E. Cheese style casino in China since they opened.
Very difficult to get any concrete, dependable news out of China for obvious reasons.
Not sure how a "Chuck E. Cheese" casino would even look like or function but I will try and find out more.
It seemed to be a really big project. The people gamble but can't win cash, but instead prizes from a mall, to skirt gambling laws. They must have opened at least a year ago more or less.Quote: TomspurVery difficult to get any concrete, dependable news out of China for obvious reasons.
Not sure how a "Chuck E. Cheese" casino would even look like or function but I will try and find out more.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt seemed to be a really big project. The people gamble but can't win cash, but instead prizes from a mall, to skirt gambling laws. They must have opened at least a year ago more or less.
My quote to the guy I was having an argument with was that the only two things that can stop the Macau juggernaut was WWIII and the Chinese government.
after all, it's macau. what do you expect!
Quote: andysifmy guess would be: the law will be there but no one will be enforcing it.
after all, it's macau. what do you expect!
You think a communist country will not enforce the laws their government enact????
Things run very smoothly in Macau and the Macenese government does an excellent job of controlling most things in and around Macau. If there is a smoking ban and all casinos have to build smoking rooms, believe me, this will happen and everyone will adhere to it.
Quote: TomspurVery difficult to get any concrete, dependable news out of China for obvious reasons.
Not sure how a "Chuck E. Cheese" casino would even look like or function but I will try and find out more.
I read an article about that-- basically, you'd buy points with cash, play various games with your points (not 'gambling', of course, because that's not allowed...), then trade in your points for goods. It's be like if chips couldn't be traded in for cash, but they were usable in the ( well stocked) gift shop.
Quote: TomspurYou think a communist country will not enforce the laws their government enact????
Things run very smoothly in Macau and the Macenese government does an excellent job of controlling most things in and around Macau. If there is a smoking ban and all casinos have to build smoking rooms, believe me, this will happen and everyone will adhere to it.
Caesars in Windsor is smoke free...for those that smoke its just a short walk to a smoking area outside the casino. Mainfloor I think has 2 areas plus just walking outside any entrance doors( three of them) and upstairs I think only has one smoking area. Its really not that big of a deal to smokers...they get used to it and us that don't smoke enjoy the clean air inside the casino.
Did it hurt the casino, sure it did . But how much will never be known as the passport at the boarder came in around the same time which we all know hurt them large.
Do people head over to Detroit to play where they can smoke freely inside? I couldn't tell you as I have only been in those casinos 3 times since they came to town
Quote: TomspurYou think a communist country will not enforce the laws their government enact????
Things run very smoothly in Macau and the Macenese government does an excellent job of controlling most things in and around Macau. If there is a smoking ban and all casinos have to build smoking rooms, believe me, this will happen and everyone will adhere to it.
Communist China's top priority is the continuation of rulership.
2nd priority is interest, primarily financial interest, of the ruling class.
Anything not directly in conflict with these 2, they can tolerate.
As for the smoking law, there is also a smoking law in HK prohibiting smoking in public areas. Most people comply, but in place like video arcade, karaoke, night clubs, massage parlors people tends to keep their eyes and mouth shut.
Quote: andysifCommunist China's top priority is the continuation of rulership.
2nd priority is interest, primarily financial interest, of the ruling class.
Anything not directly in conflict with these 2, they can tolerate.
As for the smoking law, there is also a smoking law in HK prohibiting smoking in public areas. Most people comply, but in place like video arcade, karaoke, night clubs, massage parlors people tends to keep their eyes and mouth shut.
So you are comparing Karaoke bars, arcades, clubs and massage parlors with multi billion dollar casinos and casino companies?
if the Macanese government say NO SMOKING, then everyone complies. Why would they not and risk their gaming licenses????
If I may adjust, this is mainly an American thing. Here in Europe, we have smoking bans and it has very quickly been integrated by smokers. They smoke outside and think it natural to not smoke inside. It does not, though, seem to be a better awareness of the harm they do to other people. Just that the rule "no smoking in closed public spaces" appears natural.Quote: TomspurI reasoned another way too. In my opinion Western people including Americans believe that it is their right to be able to smoke where they want. They will just as soon stay away from a casino to boycott their smoking ban than give themselves the pleasure of doing what they like (gambling). It is a "principle" thing with them.
The only protesters are the bar owners, but it seems they attribute to the smoking ban an effect of the economic crisis (and changing habits in the younger generation, who don't spend as much time in the bars). Casinos claim they suffered from it, but that may be because in the beginning the ban was not applicable to casinos. Consequently, some people went there to have a drink or dinner, even without playing. Or it may be that people come to play, but do not remain on the premises to chat or drink.
Now, in Belgium (9 casinos) I'm aware of only one who trespasses and (unofficially) lets customers smoke. My thought is that they will be hardly sanctioned when the law gets its teeth on this.
I need to be able to smoke when playing VP, because some sessions are incredibly long (depending on buy-in and pay table). Likewise with bubble craps(*). But for craps and table games, not so much. Either the sessions are shorter or I get too engrossed in the action. Of course short sessions usually mean loss of buy-in, too.
In VP though one hits wins often, really none are very exciting below a certain level. In DW anything below a straight flush is really not much of a much. Streaks seem less frequent, too. Once you get used to a strategy, too, the game can be played on autopilot. I enjoy it, yes, otherwise I woulnd't play it, but I don't get very excited about it until I hit four deuces.
(*) I had three bubble craps sessions where I went down to being on my last bet(s) and then rebounded for either a small loss or, one time, a big win about an hour later. Between the slower pace and that kind of luck, it's a time-consuming game.
Quote: kubikulannIf I may adjust, this is mainly an American thing. Here in Europe, we have smoking bans and it has very quickly been integrated by smokers. They smoke outside and think it natural to not smoke inside. It does not, though, seem to be a better awareness of the harm they do to other people. Just that the rule "no smoking in closed public spaces" appears natural.
The only protesters are the bar owners, but it seems they attribute to the smoking ban an effect of the economic crisis (and changing habits in the younger generation, who don't spend as much time in the bars). Casinos claim they suffered from it, but that may be because in the beginning the ban was not applicable to casinos. Consequently, some people went there to have a drink or dinner, even without playing. Or it may be that people come to play, but do not remain on the premises to chat or drink.
Now, in Belgium (9 casinos) I'm aware of only one who trespasses and (unofficially) lets customers smoke. My thought is that they will be hardly sanctioned when the law gets its teeth on this.
In the US there are many places where you are not allowed to smoke outside. I proudly and happily ignore these rules. I have smoked in many pubic parks where smoking is banned.
Quote: TomspurSo you are comparing Karaoke bars, arcades, clubs and massage parlors with multi billion dollar casinos and casino companies?
if the Macanese government say NO SMOKING, then everyone complies. Why would they not and risk their gaming licenses????
They are NOT gonna lose their gaming licenses violating the smoking law. A few thousand dollars fine, maybe. The licenses, no way.
It then becomes a choice between whether you want to lose the business (of certain group), or you willing to pay the fine. The choice is obvious.
What will most likely happen is, if some other customers complain, then management will tell the guy to stop smoking. But if no one speaks up in the first place, the management will probably keep a blind eye.
Quote: WizardI voted for won't make much difference. There are no other legal casinos in China, so the smokers will have no choice but to comply.
Wizard I beg to disagree with you here.
Some background info first. When the IR started in Singapore the IR invoke heaven and hell to allow smoking. Singapore government has one of the most strick laws against smoking around the world. All enclosed space must be smoke free and nobody can smoke within 20 feet of a elevator even in the open air. The government had to amend their smoking law for the IR as they feel this would be the make or break for the IR. Also Sheldon Adelson pull out of his proposed IR in Spain because the Government would not ament their smoking law.
This would now be a Game Changer for Macau as the Chinese are the heaviest smokers in the world. I think about 8 or 9 out of 10 Chinese men.
Absolutely packed all the time, it seems 80%+ asian.
Guess what...no smoking!
Quote: Dukwoo2014Have any of you gone to Resorts World in Queens, NYC?
Absolutely packed all the time, it seems 80%+ asian.
Guess what...no smoking!
The culture is different. In the US not many smoke. In China almost all men smoke.
Quote: Deck007The culture is different. In the US not many smoke. In China almost all men smoke.
You have to decide what is the overriding urge to do. Smoke or gamble?
I have experienced Asian culture first hand and I can tell you, if they have to walk a couple of feet to go and smoke, they will BUT stop them from gambling.....man oh man, you will have a revolt of epic proportions.
In our casino we have smoking rooms on the general floors and people quite happily meander in and out to smoke but they are in the casino stuck to those table games for 20 hours a day.
Quote: WizardI voted for won't make much difference. There are no other legal casinos in China, so the smokers will have no choice but to comply.
Agree.
New Zealand is becoming progressively smoke-free, and in fact there is an official plan for the whole country to be smoke-free by 2025. That's right - you will not be able to buy or smoke tobacco anywhere in the country. This year we are cutting the duty free cigarette allowance from 200 to 50 cigarettes.
You can only smoke outside in NZ currently. There are smoke-free outdoor spaces too, and smoking near building entrances is doomed.
Bar owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
Restaurant owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
etc.
The majority of casino patrons are Asian, and you will only hear Chinese spoken around the baccarat tables. Anyone wanting to smoke has to take a break from gambling and walk to one of several easily-accessible outdoor smoking areas. There has been no decline whatsoever in gambling revenues. As the Wiz says, smokers have no choice but to comply, and now everyone is accustomed to it.
Quote: algleAgree.
New Zealand is becoming progressively smoke-free, and in fact there is an official plan for the whole country to be smoke-free by 2025. That's right - you will not be able to buy or smoke tobacco anywhere in the country. This year we are cutting the duty free cigarette allowance from 200 to 50 cigarettes.
You can only smoke outside in NZ currently. There are smoke-free outdoor spaces too, and smoking near building entrances is doomed.
Bar owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
Restaurant owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
etc.
The majority of casino patrons are Asian, and you will only hear Chinese spoken around the baccarat tables. Anyone wanting to smoke has to take a break from gambling and walk to one of several easily-accessible outdoor smoking areas. There has been no decline whatsoever in gambling revenues. As the Wiz says, smokers have no choice but to comply, and now everyone is accustomed to it.
So let me get this straight, no smoking and no snakes in NZ!??!?!? I need to seriously revise where I want to live. Who needs Vegas anyway :)
Quote: TomspurSo let me get this straight, no smoking and no snakes in NZ!??!?!? I need to seriously revise where I want to live. Who needs Vegas anyway :)
I saw a snake at the zoo once.
Quote: algleI saw a snake at the zoo once.
Cages don't count. Wait till you have a black mamba strike at your drivers side window while driving down a dirt road.......:)
Quote: TomspurCages don't count. Wait till you have a black mamba strike at your drivers side window while driving down a dirt road.......:)
You must have said something that really upset it!
Quote: TomspurYou have to decide what is the overriding urge to do. Smoke or gamble?
I have experienced Asian culture first hand and I can tell you, if they have to walk a couple of feet to go and smoke, they will BUT stop them from gambling.....man oh man, you will have a revolt of epic proportions.
In our casino we have smoking rooms on the general floors and people quite happily meander in and out to smoke but they are in the casino stuck to those table games for 20 hours a day.
Smoke or gamble?........................... I agree with you.
I have experienced Asian culture first hand and I can tell you, if they have to walk a couple of feet to go and smoke, they will BUT stop them from gambling.....man oh man, you will have a revolt of epic proportions............................ Absolutely Right.
Quote: algleAgree.
New Zealand is becoming progressively smoke-free, and in fact there is an official plan for the whole country to be smoke-free by 2025. That's right - you will not be able to buy or smoke tobacco anywhere in the country. This year we are cutting the duty free cigarette allowance from 200 to 50 cigarettes.
You can only smoke outside in NZ currently. There are smoke-free outdoor spaces too, and smoking near building entrances is doomed.
Bar owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
Restaurant owners predicted bankruptcy - didn't happen.
etc.
The majority of casino patrons are Asian, and you will only hear Chinese spoken around the baccarat tables. Anyone wanting to smoke has to take a break from gambling and walk to one of several easily-accessible outdoor smoking areas. There has been no decline whatsoever in gambling revenues. As the Wiz says, smokers have no choice but to comply, and now everyone is accustomed to it.
NZ is nuts. But 2025 is a lifetime away and if the same party is still in power. Why not do it the Singapore way. Tax the Jesus out of the cig.
Quote: Deck007NZ is nuts. But 2025 is a lifetime away and if the same party is still in power. Why not do it the Singapore way. Tax the Jesus out of the cig.
Oh yeah. NZ has increased the tax on cigarettes by 40% over the past 3 years.
Average price for a 20pk is NZ$17 or US$15.
