Random thoughts and observations on gambling
1) People who have no clue about craps neverhteless play these machines. perhaps they think them easier, or are not intimidated by the presence of other players (they can't delay the game, after all). This is an inference, really, as I saw lots of people who would bet only the pass line; no odds behind it, no place bets, nothing else. Others would bet the pass line, then place the number of the point. Still others didn't bets pass line at all and simply placed every number. The Field seemed also like a popular bet.
2) People who do know how to play craps often use these machines to try to teach craps to their friends and relatives. I saw someone declaim "Really, it's very simple. let me explain." When I cashed out an hour later, he was still explaining (poor guy).
3) I think even seasoned craps players who know the good bets to make, will more easily amke bad bets (horn, C&E, hops, hardways, etc) because they can place them themselves and not look foolish to their friends, if any are along, or to the dealers (who also tend to knwo the good bets). This happened to me after a 3 followed a 2 and I had to tell msyelf "If you want more action, place a come bet." usually I followed my own advice, but not always.
4) The game's colored lights convey a great deal of information. When a player wins, the lights in front of their terminal flash yellow and red. When they lose, these lights go out. When the roll doesn't affect them, the lights remain steady. The overall lighting of the game starts out blue and shifts if a roll progresses. I dind't make note of the progression, but shortly before the game begins to say "Hot Shooter!" the ligthing turns red.
5) Different casinos of course configure the game differently as regards minimum bet, max bet, etc. But all I saw give 20 seconds to make bets and will autommatically shoot the dice if the player doens't push the button within 20 seconds. Very symetrical.
6) As to different configurations: 4 Quens, Binnion's and Harrah's allow $1 on the horn bet. At the Plaza the minimum horn is $4. Things like that.
7) Inexplicably, I saw several people leave in the middle of a hot roll. (perhaps they were betting the don't). Hypotheses are welcome.
8) I get as excited with bubble craps as with real craps. I yell "Come on eight!" (if eight is the point), I clap when I hit anything, I yell "Eight! all RIGHT!" when a point hits, etc. I do that even if there are no other palyers at the game (I hesitate to call it a table). Some players respond well, some don't, some get into it with me. The altter can get strained when I hit a seven on the come out after nailing a point and my come bets vanish...
9) The oddest way I saw someone play was this young guy who would place the 6 & 8 for $3 each, then bet the Big 6 and Big 8 for $3 each as well. His friend was explainign he should put $6 each on the palce bet, but the guy didn't seem to understand why. I stayed out of it. I never offer unsolicited advice to other players, as per Nareed's Laws of Vegas (naturally).
Quote: Nareed
9) The oddest way I saw someone play was this young guy who would place the 6 & 8 for $3 each, then bet the Big 6 and Big 8 for $3 each as well. His friend was explainign he should put $6 each on the palce bet, but the guy didn't seem to understand why.
That was me.
Quote: pokerfaceThat was me.
And you didn't say "hi" because...?
BTW, if that was you, then your user name is highly ironic ;)
but I didn't go to any downtown casino
10) All the bubble craps I played allowed you to place a passline bet with odds after the point is established. This came in handy when the machine took my money just after a come out roll. BTW the machine at Binnion's is rahter reluctant to take money.
11) When the machine cannot read the dice, as when one lands on top of the other (happened once) or one lands diagonally propped up against the rim (happened many times), it will display the result as unreadabel and shoot the dice itself. At Binnon's sometimes such occurences instead made the machine freeze up and display an error message. In such cases an attendant had to come and unfreeze it. Then the current shooter could roll again.
Still, a natural straight flush, four of a kind, flush, etc also have smaller odds than their wild card equivalents. Shouldn't the paytable have different payoffs for all naturals? Or would this make the pay table too complicated?
BTW, I hit four deuces twice before I hit a single five of a kind.
Quote: Nareed7) Inexplicably, I saw several people leave in the middle of a hot roll. (perhaps they were betting the don't). Hypotheses are welcome.
These are disciples of the Wizard, who have internalized the idea that the past does not matter in Craps [g]
Quote: Nareed
9) The oddest way I saw someone play was this young guy who would place the 6 & 8 for $3 each, then bet the Big 6 and Big 8 for $3 each as well. His friend was explainign he should put $6 each on the palce bet, but the guy didn't seem to understand why. I stayed out of it. I never offer unsolicited advice to other players, as per Nareed's Laws of Vegas (naturally).
In enlightened places like NJ, the big 6 and 8 pay 7 to 6 like they should everywhere. Paying even money on the big 6 and big 8 is just greed and exploitation.
Quote: sodawaterIn enlightened places like NJ, the big 6 and 8 pay 7 to 6 like they should everywhere. Paying even money on the big 6 and big 8 is just greed and exploitation.
it won't do the player any good in NJ either if he doesnt know to put a multiple of 6; at least I *think* this is a bet you place yourself
Quote: Nareed
Still, a natural straight flush, four of a kind, flush, etc also have smaller odds than their wild card equivalents. Shouldn't the paytable have different payoffs for all naturals? Or would this make the pay table too complicated?
BTW, I hit four deuces twice before I hit a single five of a kind.
No, you didn't. You hit Four Deuces and a 5OaK at the same time, but the Deuces paid better, so it gave you that one!
I jest.
In any event, you could create such a paytable, and I don't know that it would be too complicated, just that your base hit rate would have to suck as a result. 3OaK (the lowest paying result) would probably have to go entirely.
Quote: Mission146No, you didn't. You hit Four Deuces and a 5OaK at the same time, but the Deuces paid better, so it gave you that one!
I jest.
Not well :)
back when I played poker with friends, I instituted the rule that hands ahd to be called when shown. That is, when you showed your hand you ahd to say what it was. This was because we often played with wildcards. So if someone showing four wildcards and an ace claimed five of a kind rather than royal flush, on their head be it.
VP machiens do the same, only it's the machine that calls the hand. So four deuces is four deuces, not five of a kind.
Quote:In any event, you could create such a paytable, and I don't know that it would be too complicated, just that your base hit rate would have to suck as a result. 3OaK (the lowest paying result) would probably have to go entirely.
When I play Loose Deuces and hit a natural four of a kind, I keep thinking "this should pay more." But you ahve a point. How about paying extra for natural four of a kind, then and a natural straight flush? Of course there can be no natural 5oaK.
Quote: Nareed
When I play Loose Deuces and hit a natural four of a kind, I keep thinking "this should pay more." But you ahve a point. How about paying extra for natural four of a kind, then and a natural straight flush? Of course there can be no natural 5oaK.
It would change the entire strategy, and you'd still probably have to drop 3OaK, either that, or perhaps reduce Straights to EM and Flushes to 2 FOR 1, but I don't even know that would be enough. What kind of natural pays are you thinking?
Quote: Mission146It would change the entire strategy, and you'd still probably have to drop 3OaK, either that, or perhaps reduce Straights to EM and Flushes to 2 FOR 1, but I don't even know that would be enough. What kind of natural pays are you thinking?
I'm not sure. I'd have to know the math involved to give a sensible answer, and I don't. I know the odds of getting a natural 4 of a kind when keeping a natural 3 of a kind are 1 in 47, but everyone knows that (or should: 47 cards remaining, one would complete the 4oaK).
2 cards drawn, not 1.Quote: NareedI know the odds of getting a natural 4 of a kind when keeping a natural 3 of a kind are 1 in 47, but everyone knows that (or should: 47 cards remaining, one would complete the 4oaK).
Quote: teliot2 cards drawn, not 1.
See? I even get that wrong :)
Quote: odiousgambitit won't do the player any good in NJ either if he doesnt know to put a multiple of 6; at least I *think* this is a bet you place yourself
Big 6 / 8 don't exist in AC, as they are not listed as legal bets according to the gaming commission. No house will even book a place 6 / 8 bet unless it is for a multiple of $6.
Speaking of which, when I passed a Rapi Roulette I realized I hadn't seen any lately, though they were quite common a few years back. Possibly this just means I visit fewer Strip casinos.
Related, I failed to find the Rapid Craps table at the Quad (it was there last year). I guess it's gone, gone, gone. It was a good idea, and it's really too bad it didn't work. My verdict is that ti suffered from two flaws: 1) a somewhat hard-to-use interface and 2) too long to input the dice result.
Bubble craps has hit, IMO, because of the better interface (much bigger, for one thing) and the dice results are read automatically and very, very quickly. So while it feels slower than real craps, it's not as slow as Rapid Craps was. And as it lets players "shoot" the dice, there's that minimal level of interactivity still there.
First and foremost are the odds. Most of the machines I have played are only double odds. That is dumb. They should want to make these machines more popular because there is no labor involved. No overhead. Always open, etc etc. So they should make them a better gamble than a real table. Give us 5X at least.
The other thing that I wish it had was an "I'm ready" button. Make your bet, then push the "I'm ready" button and the roll starts. It is an excruciatingly slow game, especially when playing alone. Of course with a full table it would not be much quicker, but it could be. If everyone got into the rhythm and quickly pushed their buttons it could go much quicker.
I know that some will think I am crazy, but I think the dice can be influenced.
When the dice are rumbling around ready to "pop" I will try to time hitting the shoot button when the combo of the dice I want is showing. Lots of time those dice will pop straight up and come straight down the same way they went up. Not every time. And the combo I want doesn't always appear in the "shaking" phase. But when I do manage to pop it they do go up and down an inordinate amount of time.
If it only works a small percentage of time, it still helps. AND it makes the game much more interactive.
If it had that "ready" button and had better odds, I would play it a lot more.
Quote: NareedAruze has a really big hit with bubble craps (which I think are called "Soot To Won Craps," but I digress). Naturally they're traying to follow it up. Last year I saw their Big 6 game. This year I saw BJ and Baccarat, both at the Venetian (they may be elsewhere, too).
.
They do have a good blackjack game. I've played the one at Monte Carlo a lot. Besides the high limit room games, I think it has the best rules in the house. Which is how it should be to get people to play it over a live game. It is, of course, much cheaper for the casino to have people losing money at a machine than to paid employees.
And by the way, I think one of the dealers on the machine, has a little thing for me. I swear she winks at me all the time. Every trip. ;)
Quote: BigTipFirst and foremost are the odds. Most of the machines I have played are only double odds. That is dumb. They should want to make these machines more popular because there is no labor involved. No overhead. Always open, etc etc. So they should make them a better gamble than a real table. Give us 5X at least.
Odds are set by the casino. I don't recall where this was, but there used to be a place that allowed up to 5x.
Quote: BigTipThe other thing that I wish it had was an "I'm ready" button. Make your bet, then push the "I'm ready" button and the roll starts. It is an excruciatingly slow game, especially when playing alone. Of course with a full table it would not be much quicker, but it could be. If everyone got into the rhythm and quickly pushed their buttons it could go much quicker.
Could've sworn I've seen this before on some units too-- but I might be thinking of half-digital roulette units. (I remember thinking that some units had them and some didn't, so it might also be something the casino can toggle on and off.)
Quote: BigTipFirst and foremost are the odds. Most of the machines I have played are only double odds.
My understanding is that the casino sets the odds, along with the minimums and other rules. I recall someone posted of better odds in some machines, but I forget where.
For that matter the field should pay triple on either the 2 or 12, as do most tables Downtown. I would love it if it were triple on both the 12 and 2, but I wouldn't expect it.
Quote:The other thing that I wish it had was an "I'm ready" button. Make your bet, then push the "I'm ready" button and the roll starts. It is an excruciatingly slow game, especially when playing alone.
It was only 20 seconds for bets in the machines I played. I also played alone a bit, and it didn't strike me as slow. And I get impatient with elevator doors which take more than an immeasurable instant to close after I hit the close-door button ;)
Besides, it gives you time to flag down a waitress or to collect your drink.
Quote: BigTip
And by the way, I think one of the dealers on the machine, has a little thing for me. I swear she winks at me all the time. Every trip. ;)
Funny thing my wife pointed out to me: Those electronic dealers look like they just passed gas. It's hilarious if you look for it.
Quote: Nareed
It was only 20 seconds for bets in the machines I played. .
That's what I am saying. 20 seconds... SECONDS!! ARGGGHHHHHH!
lol
But think about it. On a real table when you are playing alone, you can fly. Shoot the dice, shoot the dice, shoot the dice.
And seriously, that 20 seconds on the machines can seem like forever, especially when you are not making any more bets and are just trying to make the point.
I have played these machines I think at seven different casinos and none of them had "hurry up" buttons. It puzzles me because you would think the casinos would suggest it to Aruze as it would make the casino more money.
Quote: BigTipThat's what I am saying. 20 seconds... SECONDS!! ARGGGHHHHHH!
I'm like that with elevator doors. Of course, i swear the elevator in my building takes longer to clsoe the doors when I'm feeling particualrly impatient. It can't possibly be a coincidence ;)
Quote:But think about it. On a real table when you are playing alone, you can fly.
And go through your bankroll with a bad roll in what will feel like 20 seconds, too ;)
Seriously, I dislike playing alone for just that reason: it's too fast.
Quote:And seriously, that 20 seconds on the machines can seem like forever, especially when you are not making any more bets and are just trying to make the point.
True. Not that it ever felt too long to me, but sometimes you're just sitting there waiting for the timer to run down. If I got bored, I'd tap the rules buttons and read the rules. Then, too, on many sessions I would chat with other players. I handed out a few WoO/WoV cards on such ocassions.
I got more impatient when cashing out. Some machines seemed to take forever to print the ticket.
I did play at Casino Royale for a small loss. The idea there was precisely to bet more on odds, but the table wasn't cooperating. There is a $3, 2X table always open at the Fremont, but it's usually packed. And since those are the same rules as in bubble craps, well...
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's a hell of a lot easier to do stupid things when all you have to do is touch a screen and your neighbors don't know
well after several beers me and my new best friend sitting next to me deciphered the secrets of the dice and realized we were seeing lots of 12's... so of course I click a $5 and then boxcars... hit the plunger.... double six! woo hoo! got to hit again, right? sure, I'll even double my bet... ("c'mon.. roll the dice!") - hit the plunger - you kiddin me???!!!! 6-6!!!!! ok - next roll.... double my bet again... hit the plunger.... 7 out!.... that was pretty cool - stayed at the table for another 30 minutes, no more betting boxcars for me, my new buddy was throwing down $5 or $10 on every roll and promptly gave all of his winnings back... I walked away with about $700 (started with $100)....
