Poker Tournament Collusion
April 29th, 2014 at 3:08:30 PM
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is there any gaming laws or regulations that govern collusion in poker tournaments? If not, would you consider it an advantage play? Would you be abhorred at finding out many known poker pros participate in this?
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
April 29th, 2014 at 3:29:06 PM
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It's definitely not an advantage play. It is cheating because all poker rooms have rules against collusion. It probably could be considered a crime -- in NJ there is a crime called something like "rigging a public contest" -- if there was enough evidence to charge and convict the cheaters.
April 29th, 2014 at 4:11:14 PM
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Quote: sodawaterIt's definitely not an advantage play. It is cheating because all poker rooms have rules against collusion. It probably could be considered a crime -- in NJ there is a crime called something like "rigging a public contest" -- if there was enough evidence to charge and convict the cheaters.
This is true, but it happens all the time for cash games in varying ways. Soft play, checking it down amongst friends etc. So much so it's accepted.
As for tournaments, especially big ones, it's hard because usually your not at the same table as your buddy and it's hard enough to win one of those without chip dumping to a buddy. One thing I recommend you NEVER do is play a single table SNG in a casino. Far too easy for friends to get together and try to cash for all three spots at your expense.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
April 29th, 2014 at 6:20:10 PM
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In most of the remaining poker rooms in AC, if you are not a local and try to play a cash game you will be the target of collusion as most people at the table know each other. They will soft play each other to try and clean anyone new at the table, fish or not, out.
April 29th, 2014 at 6:58:36 PM
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Quote: BozIn most of the remaining poker rooms in AC, if you are not a local and try to play a cash game you will be the target of collusion as most people at the table know each other. They will soft play each other to try and clean anyone new at the table, fish or not, out.
This is a MASSIVE exaggeration. So much so, especially at the 1/2 level, that you shouldn't believe it.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
April 29th, 2014 at 7:08:29 PM
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This is kinda like what happens in the movie Rounders, when all the NY rounders are at a table together at the Taj when they open it up to the board.Quote: BozIn most of the remaining poker rooms in AC, if you are not a local and try to play a cash game you will be the target of collusion as most people at the table know each other. They will soft play each other to try and clean anyone new at the table, fish or not, out.
The rounders are not colluding against the novices. The novices are simply outplayed.
THAT'S what can happen in a real casino. The regulars aren't necessarily colluding, but they are simply better because they play more often.
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April 29th, 2014 at 7:17:36 PM
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My biggest gripe is disillusion in legal rooms than the ill e gal rooms ever allowed. All that matters is the rake.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
April 29th, 2014 at 7:21:14 PM
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Actually, to be fair, I've heard of big time collusion at 5/10 NL at Borgata.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
April 29th, 2014 at 8:03:11 PM
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There is no need to collude in low limit NLHE in AC. The players are bad enough. And so is the rake, actually.
As for collusion in higher games... There might be soft playing going on, but in a cash game I wouldn't call that collusion.
As for collusion in higher games... There might be soft playing going on, but in a cash game I wouldn't call that collusion.
April 29th, 2014 at 8:27:08 PM
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This title is about tournament poker. A collusion heaven. I mean for a while I never saw any scrum bag Chesterton thief from Denver in Blackhawk poker rooms. Then online went dead and they flocked to Blackhawk for the easy picking in tournaments
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
April 29th, 2014 at 8:34:08 PM
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when it's heads up i don't thinks it's colluding if you soft play in a cash game
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 29th, 2014 at 10:37:21 PM
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I wonder if staking players can lead to collusion as some pros have openly talked about having staked other players in big tournaments and in some instances both players made the final table. But they all say they don't and would never soft play each other. Thats kind of hard for me to fully believe, as if you know you are getting a percentage of their winnings, would you really want to knock them out especially on the bubble? Other players have said that staking deals should be let known to the other players in the tourney, especially at the final table.
April 29th, 2014 at 11:32:56 PM
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Without crunching numbers, I'd imagine that even if you were staking a fellow November Niner, you'd still rather cash higher than the one you're staking. I guess you'd want to dump to your horse if you knew for sure you were going out next, but in a NLHE final table, you can't be sure.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
April 30th, 2014 at 6:14:52 AM
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Quote: DRichis there any gaming laws or regulations that govern collusion in poker tournaments? If not, would you consider it an advantage play? Would you be abhorred at finding out many known poker pros participate in this?
No regs that I know of but I think that Tournament Director's Association rules give the tournament director wide discretion in combating collusion. Anything from a 10 minute time out to being kicked out of the tournament.
Whether its a final table or SNG collusion between 2 players is super strong. Keeping roughly even stacks between the two is huge. One guy with 35 big blinds raises, the other guy with 10 big blinds reraises all in then the other guy folds.
Probably the most famous collusion case was Larry Flint. Him and Doyle Brunson had a huge last longer bet at the WSOP. Flynt was caught bribing players to dump chips to him. He was kicked out of the tournament and banned from the Horseshoe.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
April 30th, 2014 at 6:50:38 AM
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My idea, pros should play pros. Hard working people who make their living by actually spending most of their time at work, should play the same. Bring your check stab and compete with the same. It should give anyone a fair chance of winning.
April 30th, 2014 at 6:55:48 AM
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It should also go by age categories. Watching suckers robbing middle aged people who worked all their life, is heart breaking.
April 30th, 2014 at 6:59:12 AM
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Poker is a democratic game. You pay, you play. No need for age groups, pro brackets or anything else. If you don't have the good sense to realize your a huge under dog, then thats your problem.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
April 30th, 2014 at 7:05:51 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
April 30th, 2014 at 7:42:50 AM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesYeah, now what's that old saying??? Oh right,...
"If you can't spot the sucker, you're it!"
"It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money." Canada Bill
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
April 30th, 2014 at 7:47:18 AM
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Ha!
Canada Bill is one of the best examples of being on both sides of that quote: One of the best cheats and hustlers ever, and certainly of his time, who once sat for hours (days?) at a rigged Faro game and responded when a fellow cheat asked him why he would play a rigged game, "It's the only game in town!"
Canada Bill is one of the best examples of being on both sides of that quote: One of the best cheats and hustlers ever, and certainly of his time, who once sat for hours (days?) at a rigged Faro game and responded when a fellow cheat asked him why he would play a rigged game, "It's the only game in town!"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 30th, 2014 at 7:49:36 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
April 30th, 2014 at 9:41:27 AM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesRichard Marcus seems to think that most of the big name poker players are cheaters.
I do think some of the BIG name pros are involved in dumping chips to each other in tournaments.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
