Neutrino
Neutrino
  • Threads: 84
  • Posts: 515
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
March 19th, 2014 at 8:39:28 PM permalink
This thought just came to me. Do women have an advantage as a blackjack AP? I suspect it because...

Click the spoiler that suits your profile. I am not responsible for the feeling of being offended if you click the wrong one.

A person who thinks in terms of statistics and respects the statistical truth.

Women are statistically on average worse at mathematics related activities. As a result of their lack of capability to handle AP math, not many of them are AP. As a result they are less likely to come off as AP to the dealer/pit. In addition, if they are attractive, their gender may help them. To what extent I do not know. But I feel like it would make it psychologically less likely for the dealer (Who she can pick to set at a male dealer's table) and the pit boss (most of them male) less likely to cause problems for her (backing off, 86, etc).

Several books have been written about women having an advantage in poker due to the way men perceive them. I wonder if the same could in some way apply to blackjack AP.

Note: I DO have a moral issue with women abusing their gender! I consider this a form of "selling sex" But however the focus of the question here isn't morality, is whether indeed they have an advantage or not as blackjack AP.


A person who believe political correctness is more important than statistical truth. Also feminists.

The machoist stereotype of intelligent gamblers (or people in general) being male could be used to a woman's advantage. The machoism that pit managers (most of whom are male) exhibit makes them much less likely to see a female gambler as AP. This makes getting heat much less likely and significantly increases the profit of the woman. Women of light yellow hair may possess an even further advantage due to another unhealthy stereotype of the said hair colored women.


So yeah, do you think women have an advantage in avoiding heat as a card counter? I'm just curious, not that I can do anything about being male...
geoff
geoff
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 368
Joined: Feb 19, 2014
March 19th, 2014 at 9:08:42 PM permalink
They do in the same sense that being black, old, in a wheel chair, etc people have. When someone thinks of a card counter the stereo type is of a late twenties early thirties white male who is a nerd. Anyone who doesn't fit in that stereotype gets less hit just because.
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
March 19th, 2014 at 9:17:18 PM permalink
Any group of people that arent normally playing a casino game well usually can be undetected for a long amount of time. I've never seen any black gamblers play anything on a machine that had a remote chance of APing, so if there are black pros I would be extremely surprised. Meanwhile on the other hand I am asian, wear glasses, and don't order alcohol so I'm a stereotypical advantage gambler lol
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Neutrino
Neutrino
  • Threads: 84
  • Posts: 515
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
March 19th, 2014 at 9:20:09 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

Any group of people that arent normally playing a casino game well usually can be undetected for a long amount of time. I've never seen any black gamblers play anything on a machine that had a remote chance of APing, so if there are black pros I would be extremely surprised. Meanwhile on the other hand I am asian, wear glasses, and don't order alcohol so I'm a stereotypical advantage gambler lol



Actually as far as I know the asian stereotype in a casino is very different from the asian stereotype elsewhere. The stereotype seems to be strong culturally influenced superstition and the belief in luck. Probably due to their unnatural obsession with the only no-skill table game, baccarat.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22293
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 19th, 2014 at 9:37:18 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

This thought just came to me. Do women have an advantage as a blackjack AP? I suspect it because...

Click the spoiler that suits your profile. I am not responsible for the feeling of being offended if you click the wrong one.

A person who thinks in terms of statistics and respects the statistical truth.

Women are statistically on average worse at mathematics related activities. As a result of their lack of capability to handle AP math, not many of them are AP. As a result they are less likely to come off as AP to the dealer/pit. In addition, if they are attractive, their gender may help them. To what extent I do not know. But I feel like it would make it psychologically less likely for the dealer (Who she can pick to set at a male dealer's table) and the pit boss (most of them male) less likely to cause problems for her (backing off, 86, etc).

Several books have been written about women having an advantage in poker due to the way men perceive them. I wonder if the same could in some way apply to blackjack AP.

Note: I DO have a moral issue with women abusing their gender! I consider this a form of "selling sex" But however the focus of the question here isn't morality, is whether indeed they have an advantage or not as blackjack AP.


A person who believe political correctness is more important than statistical truth. Also feminists.

The machoist stereotype of intelligent gamblers (or people in general) being male could be used to a woman's advantage. The machoism that pit managers (most of whom are male) exhibit makes them much less likely to see a female gambler as AP. This makes getting heat much less likely and significantly increases the profit of the woman. Women of light yellow hair may possess an even further advantage due to another unhealthy stereotype of the said hair colored women.


So yeah, do you think women have an advantage in avoiding heat as a card counter? I'm just curious, not that I can do anything about being male...

It takes a bit more time to detect a female as a card counter however female blackjack players (for any significant amount of money ) will attract more attention so it's probably a wash. It is mot hard to detect a counter A+B=C. If casinos were smart they would encourage hot girls to count cards, this would attract guys to the table, especially drunk ones who would like to show off their martingale systems where they don't have a clue how to play basic and avoid doubling down 10 vs dealers 6.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Neutrino
Neutrino
  • Threads: 84
  • Posts: 515
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
March 19th, 2014 at 11:10:39 PM permalink
That's why they have party pits
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
March 19th, 2014 at 11:59:30 PM permalink
A Floor Person may be a young male who wants to advance his career. He will have to fight against the tendency to see "a pair of tits at first base" and focus on a "frequent winner at first base". The language and culture of a casino favors viewing females as "a pair of tits" The Party Pit reaps a reward for that view. Males note arrival and note whether there is a boyfriend or not. Surveillance may adjust the camera's joystick to get a better view of the anatomy but we hope they focus on the cards and betting patterns instead.

Females tend to glance around without attracting the attention of surveillance for rubber necking the way a male would.

Yet you can use anything for "blocking". The two Israelis who are supposed to have used a micro-laser on a roulette wheel, are rumored to have used two large black males dripping in gold jewelry as attention getters.

Its not "selling sex" in a poker room its using sexuality to advantage. The men joke about the woman is the only one who can look at the cards, but they often also play that way.

Its up to the scriptwriter to decide whether he kills the two hoods who are on guard duty by distracting them with a beautiful woman or if the beautiful woman is also the actual killer. Its up to the audience to decide how they view the scene. We all have biases. That is why the dealers and cameramen are told to focus on hands and chips, not tits.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22293
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 1:48:29 AM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

That's why they have party pits

Most men realize they wont be going home with PP girl But a girl at table they think they may have a chance.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
March 20th, 2014 at 3:03:54 AM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

Probably due to their unnatural obsession with the only no-skill table game, baccarat.

Craps? Roulette?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22293
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 3:54:24 AM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

Quote: Neutrino

Probably due to their unnatural obsession with the only no-skill table game, baccarat.

Craps? Roulette?

no skill meaning simple you can be blind and retarded and play it. Nothing to learn like in craps or blackjack even roulette can look intimidating .

I looked at that Nor video and when they panned to the crowd, I began to understand why bunk systems dealing with Bac are so easy sell. BJ and craps would be way to intimidating and complex to learn.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
1BB
1BB
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5339
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
March 20th, 2014 at 8:07:12 AM permalink
One needs to look no further than this forum to see what takes place when a young, attractive woman shows up. Some pit guys are no different as common sense takes a temporary vacation.

The female AP may be able to get away with more for a while but her longevity is not guaranteed. She must have an act, just as her male counterparts. There are more female floors and pit bosses today and they may not be as lenient as the men. Surveillance is a lot better. If a player, male or female, shows lifetime wins and consistently bets with the count they should expect scrutiny and ultimately to confronted by the pit.

Where I do see opportunities is team play. If I were to start a team, female APs would be a must.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 4300
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 8:55:59 AM permalink
I'm trying to think of a way that my fiance can help my game next time I'm in Vegas (which will be her first time with me). She has never played BJ in her life and I'm not going to try to teach her BS, so any plan or act would have to include me telling her what decisions to make. I'm wondering if just showing up with her, having her flat bet table min, and me using my normal spread would even be a +EV move in terms of heat. I would be throwing off one of the standard profiles of a counter (alone), but I would have to spread even bigger on my spot to make up for her spot. I guess I could tell her to mimic my bet, but that would be pretty obvious. I dunno. I may just teach her to play craps and keep the Blackjack for myself :).
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
RogerKint
RogerKint
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1916
Joined: Dec 5, 2011
March 20th, 2014 at 9:04:31 AM permalink
I highly recommend bj with your fiance. My girlfriend flat bet a good $25 double deck game the last time we were in Vegas. I wonged in and out as I pleased for hours while getting wasted. The only heat I got was when I tried to light up a comped cigar at the table; no one else smoked.
100% risk of ruin
AceTwo
AceTwo
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 359
Joined: Mar 13, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 12:50:01 PM permalink
Women definetely have an advantage in AP where I usually play (outside the US).
That's from personal experience. My wife is also an AP and her statistics (number of barrings etc reltive to playtime) are much less than mine.
And she spreads like no tommorow with almost no cover relative to cover that I use.
And even in Las Vegas where we played many years ago, I got 2 barrings and she got none.
Neutrino
Neutrino
  • Threads: 84
  • Posts: 515
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
March 20th, 2014 at 12:58:39 PM permalink
Quote: AceTwo

Women definetely have an advantage in AP where I usually play (outside the US).
That's from personal experience. My wife is also an AP and her statistics (number of barrings etc reltive to playtime) are much less than mine.
And she spreads like no tommorow with almost no cover relative to cover that I use.
And even in Las Vegas where we played many years ago, I got 2 barrings and she got none.



just curious what bet spread did she get away with
AceTwo
AceTwo
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 359
Joined: Mar 13, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 1:05:34 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

just curious what bet spread did she get away with



1 Hand of 1 Unit to 2 Hands of 20 units. (Not in the US)
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22293
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
March 20th, 2014 at 3:00:39 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

I highly recommend bj with your fiance. My girlfriend flat bet a good $25 double deck game the last time we were in Vegas. I wonged in and out as I pleased for hours while getting wasted. The only heat I got was when I tried to light up a comped cigar at the table; no one else smoked.

There is probably a big difference in your GF then most.

people (GF's) must really understand the concept first. They must understand why it works and that everything is math and logic. They cant just shake there head and say, "yes I understand". They probably don't. Normally, even if they do understand, until they see something working, the concept can still be foreign. If someone wants to get a GF involved, I suggests doing things like match plays for a while first. Build the knowledge slow form there. I cant express enough, people must understand WHY it works before the HOW it works.

Some BJ experts may disagree with me on this. But when I'm trying to explain to someone why the house beats you at Black Jack. There is one simple reason YOU ACT FIRST, you then bust first when the dealer may have busted instead. To partly make up for this the house gives you extra things/rules your allowed to do, things like splitting and doubling down.

What most people don't understand, counting cards can be easy. (people think you have to be some kind of math genius to do it) Knowing what to do with it and how to bet while avoiding heat is the hard part.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
  • Jump to: