Not illegal to
And here's an ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-Jackpot-Reset-Key-2341-for-IGT-Slot-Machines-/281067269379
$7.49, free ship :)
Very valuable informationQuote: CanyoneroPayout percentages?
Quote: CanyoneroSo what kind of information could we gather with that key? Payout percentages? Hit rates? Variance? Play history?
I believe so but gathering that information does not change the operation of the machine and therefore is not cheating.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIf you are going to do this you may as well just pay your lawyer to come with you to the casino. It will save a lot of time.
Bring a cop friend as well so the securities can't fk with you
Quote: article
The action also wasn’t criminal. Schreck said the Washoe County district attorney’s office reviewed the case and declined to charge Tors and the Peppermill criminally.
But would it be illegal if a customer used a 2341 key on a Nevada casino floor?
No, Burnett said.
I'm not sure that's true:
Quote: NRS 205.4765 Unlawful acts regarding computers: Generally.
3. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 6, a person who knowingly, willfully and without authorization:
(k) Obtains or attempts to obtain access to, permits access to or causes to be accessed,
a computer, system or network is guilty of a misdemeanor.
How is turning a slot key in someone else's slot machine not unlawful access to a computer?
Quote: MathExtremist
How is turning a slot key in someone else's slot machine not unlawful access to a computer?
Quote:Except as otherwise provided in subsection 6, a person who knowingly, willfully and without authorization:
(k) Obtains or attempts to obtain access to, permits access to or causes to be accessed,
a computer, system or network is guilty of a misdemeanor.
What does "access" mean? I can access a computer with my player's card. That's the correct use of the word. I can't place a virus, or alter the program though from a kiosk though.
Can the lawyers split hairs here?
Quote: rxwineWhat does "access" mean? I can access a computer with my player's card. That's the correct use of the word.
But you would be "authorized" to do that. Using a slot key when not an employee of that casino...not so much.
Quote: tringlomaneBut you would be "authorized" to do that. Using a slot key when not an employee of that casino...not so much.
If I stick another player's card in a kiosk I find in a casino, I assume I won't get charged with a misdemeanor though I am not authorized.
So, anyway, I think I would lose too on the key business. But maybe the wording could be made hay of more than one might think in an initial case. But I don't know.
Quote: rxwineIf I stick another player's card in a kiosk I find in a casino, I assume I won't get charged with a misdemeanor though I am not authorized.
So, anyway, I think I would lose too on the key business. But maybe the wording could be made hay of more than one might think in an initial case. But I don't know.
Possibly, but if casino charged over other player's cards, they would lose a buttload of married customers. There still might be loopholes here obv. Laws always seem to be a pain in the butt to read.
On the other hand, maybe accessing the computer itself is fine, since that's what you have access to using a players card, but you are not able to access the network with the players card.
Also, perhaps there is a statute (wrong word?) saying that the public is able to access (has authorization) to the computer/system/etc. (I read a little while ago about a casino that got into trouble because the BPs playing roullete didn't like "the two guys over there" watching them, so those people were asked to not watch the game....but turns out a casino must allow the public to view any table game....or something like that.) So maybe there's something like that?
Lastly, not the best point to be made, but perhaps worth a shot -- who is authorized to access a machine and how are they authorized? For example, is there a record saying Cindy Lou Who the Slot Attendant has been authorized to access the machine? Are there records of who is authorized to access the machine? If there is no record of who is authorized, then technically anyone who opens that machine is guilty of a misdeamenor.
Quote: MathExtremistNRS 205.4765 Unlawful acts regarding computers: Generally.
3. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 6, a person who knowingly, willfully and without authorization:
(k) Obtains or attempts to obtain access to, permits access to or causes to be accessed,
a computer, system or network is guilty of a misdemeanor.
I am not convinced this law even applies to a slot machine - I would argue it is not a computer. If it is, my microwave is a computer, too.
Also, I am authorized to access the slot machine. It is obviously put on the casino floor to grant me access. Maybe the way I access it is not the way they intended, and they are welcome to explain that to me or 86 me. So unless signs are clearly posted asking me to not use my key, I don't see why not.
Assuming the slot machine IS a somputer: What if the casino posts a sign "Players mustn't access the rules pages", and I still do, is that a misdemeanor?
Aside from the legalese: This might be an opportunity to find some information that this forum has been looking for since its inception (I assume). We should explore all options to use this opportunity safely!
I wonder how long it would take to get caught and 86ed? My guess is not long. How you going to check all the apropriate machines? No one really cares what a Lobster Mania game plays, we all know its bad. So the information is mostly useless unless you know how to use it. We all know what Video poker is and even some other games.Quote: CanyoneroI am not convinced this law even applies to a slot machine - I would argue it is not a computer. If it is, my microwave is a computer, too.
Also, I am authorized to access the slot machine. It is obviously put on the casino floor to grant me access. Maybe the way I access it is not the way they intended, and they are welcome to explain that to me or 86 me. So unless signs are clearly posted asking me to not use my key, I don't see why not.
Assuming the slot machine IS a somputer: What if the casino posts a sign "Players mustn't access the rules pages", and I still do, is that a misdemeanor?
Aside from the legalese: This might be an opportunity to find some information that this forum has been looking for since its inception (I assume). We should explore all options to use this opportunity safely!
Perhaps Lion share may be of some interest. To the wizard GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
I know what I would want it for, BUT What would YOU use it for? It would be great for some slot progressives, must hits and a few other games sure. But that is not the best way to use the information IMO.
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, let's say you buy a key, you go around opening up machines, and you get caught. Surveillance tapes show you did exactly what they caught you doing. I would think they would charge you with burglary, and I can't imagine a judge finding you not guilty; you have the tools on you, you have no legitimate reason to open the machines, they're locked (it's not like opening a refrigerator door) so you have clear intent to access something that's not intended for you to open. There is no innocent reason for you to happen to be in a casino with a slot key as a non-employee of the casino or the vendor. Fine + time. Next! Don't waste the court's time, bailiff! lol...
Yikes your honor.... I'm just a geeky nerd who saw the sign saying 'We have the loosest slots!'. I was comparing the payout rate at this fine casino to the one next door, to check the veracity of their claim! Remind me how I broke the law?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, let's say you buy a key, you go around opening up machines, and you get caught. Surveillance tapes show you did exactly what they caught you doing. I would think they would charge you with burglary, and I can't imagine a judge finding you not guilty; you have the tools on you, you have no legitimate reason to open the machines, they're locked (it's not like opening a refrigerator door) so you have clear intent to access something that's not intended for you to open. There is no innocent reason for you to happen to be in a casino with a slot key as a non-employee of the casino or the vendor. Fine + time. Next! Don't waste the court's time, bailiff! lol...
Apparently they won't charge you with anything. And I don't think that opening something constitutes burglary, although I could be wrong about that.
Quote: beachbumbabsSo, let's say you buy a key, you go around opening up machines, and you get caught. .
There are always available people hanging out at the casino looking for spare change and have nothing better to do.
I thought the lock was for safety reasons slot doors can be dangerous. Also the lock may not be opening anything.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceApparently they won't charge you with anything. And I don't think that opening something constitutes burglary, although I could be wrong about that.
But if illegal then that would be conspiracy or something like that. your asking some to help you commit a crime.Quote: rxwineThere are always available people hanging out at the casino looking for spare change and have nothing better to do.
I assume the latter, however there may be some that do both.Quote: rudeboyoiDoes the key actually open the machine or just change the screen when turned?
Quote: beachbumbabsIf it's the one I've seen them use, it physically opens the face of the machine. You can see the reels, the motherboard, get to the back of the TITO to replace the paper, all that stuff. BTW, there's usually a paper log notebook in there as well, and they make an entry and initial it when they open one.
I recognize that $1 million fine is enormous compared to other fines levied against Nevada casinos, but I just don't think it's an adequate punishment for a crime as serious as opening up a competitor's slot machine! The Peppermill should have lost their license.
Quote: renoI recognize that $1 million fine is enormous compared to other fines levied against Nevada casinos, but I just don't think it's an adequate punishment for a crime as serious as opening up a competitor's slot machine!
I don't think it's confirmed that the key opens the machine.
Quote: gpac1377
I don't think it's confirmed that the key opens the machine.
I was under the impression it is the key they use for hand pays as well. That doesn't actually open the machine, it just changes the screen.
I am not sure it cannot do both, though...
Quote: SOOPOOYikes your honor.... I'm just a geeky nerd who saw the sign saying 'We have the loosest slots!'. I was comparing the payout rate at this fine casino to the one next door, to check the veracity of their claim! Remind me how I broke the law?!
Exactly!
Also, there is one precedent we know of so far, and no criminal chrages were filed.
This is true. However they may arrest you now and ask questions later.This has happen in casinos many times. No civil compensation was revived, This could lead to some expensive Lawyer fees. You never know what the judge will say.Quote: CanyoneroExactly!
Also, there is one precedent we know of so far, and no criminal chrages were filed.
As for the keys, different machines work differently. Some have the same key that works both the setting lock and the machine door. Some have 2 different keys. Some machines you have to open to get to the settings.
I have on occasion used my key to look at a previous hand of video poker to see if I accidentally threw something away that I meant to hold.
Quote: DRichThe key absolutely does not open the door of the slot machine. It only allows access to menus on the machine. Most manufacturers and casinos all use the same key. I have a bucket of hundreds of these at my office.
I have on occasion used my key to look at a previous hand of video poker to see if I accidentally threw something away that I meant to hold.
Lol!!!
Never any problems as a result?
