"smart" people

Quote: thecesspit

I have a very smart friend of mine, really good at coding. Often brings out a calculator to add two small numbers together... I always double take when I see him struggle with simple arithmetic. Stuff that's just in my head, and as simple as opening a fridge door or yale lock.

I don't have this particular problem, but I often miscount things, in as small a group of 7-8. Also I have never been diagnosed, but I think I am slightly dyslexic as sometimes I will work out the correct answer to a problem in my head, but then write/say the wrong thing (with the numbers transposed/permuted in some fashion.)

I am east-west impaired. A slightly important distinction to make as an air traffic controller, right? Lol...

Constantly had to fight it. Think it's because I'm left-handed. left/right is fine. up/down north/south is fine. East is left, that's all there is to it. No amount of tricks kept me from having to think about it, even in the Zone. (the Zone is where you're juggling 15-20 airplanes and you've got them lined up like the Rockettes, turnin' and burnin', more lingo in ATC than any craps junkie ever dreamt up around a tub.) Maybe I was a penguin in a former life (South Pole oriented; that'd fix it, right?) :)

one of my fave shows used to be "House"...it entailed every week a bunch of doctors sitting around a whiteboard, with a list of symptoms trying to figure out the disease of that week....using their brains

I would think there is a computer program that can spit out the answer after you punch on those symptoms,. RATHER than use your brain like above.

Are the dictors on House "smarter" than the average doctor because they can figure things out without the computer. Or are the doctors who look at those doctors and laugh as they punch into a computer t get the possible answers..:smarter".

I would think that the ones that do it manually are smarter....because they can think for themselves and possibly think of something on theirown...for another patient that would be of help because their minds are sharp and they can think on their feet, and may be more likely to make a fast life saving decision when there is no time to check a computer.


One interesting news story......off topic a little....some guy on the news was Dying with all kinds of grave symptoms after Hip replacement surgery. American medicine gave up..and he went to Germany to a haopital for undiagnoseable diseases.

The doctor remembered an episode of House......AND CURED THE GUY. When he was interviewed he exclaimed that he always enjoyed Dr Houses diagnostic work...as if it was a real doctior he was talking about.

Quote: LarryS

one of my fave shows used to be "House"...it entailed every week a bunch of doctors sitting around a whiteboard, with a list of symptoms trying to figure out the disease of that week....using their brains

I would think there is a computer program that can spit out the answer after you punch on those symptoms,. RATHER than use your brain like above.

Are the dictors on House "smarter" than the average doctor because they can figure things out without the computer. Or are the doctors who look at those doctors and laugh as they punch into a computer t get the possible answers..:smarter".

I would think that the ones that do it manually are smarter....because they can think for themselves and possibly think of something on theirown...for another patient that would be of help because their minds are sharp and they can think on their feet, and may be more likely to make a fast life saving decision when there is no time to check a computer.


One interesting news story......off topic a little....some guy on the news was Dying with all kinds of grave symptoms after Hip replacement surgery. American medicine gave up..and he went to Germany to a haopital for undiagnoseable diseases.

The doctor remembered an episode of House......AND CURED THE GUY. When he was interviewed he exclaimed that he always enjoyed Dr Houses diagnostic work...as if it was a real doctior he was talking about.

I think there's an inevitable intellectual laziness that would creep in if doctors were allowed to just feed symptoms into a computer and accept its diagnosis. Too much overlap of symptoms, too many assumptions would get made. I think a hybrid system that gave solutions by percentage of likelihood, recommended distinguishing tests, and suggested secondary/alternate treatments could work very well. But nothing seems to have replaced human interaction with a live patient yet.

Quote: endermike

However, this example also shows that there will likely always be a place for those who are stronger on the "standard intelligence" (until the AI singularity, should that ever happen)

Many old science fiction concepts of future humans had oversized craniums. Perhaps not. Maybe it will be shrunken heads.

of course,,there are programs where you punch in symptoms and you get an array of possibilities. There is never one answer. Then the doctor has to do further tests to rule out some of those possibilities, or rule some out based on specific visual findings..

Still doctors dont sit around a board and just look at symptoms and say screw the computer.

But those that rely on the computer more and more will slowly lose their diagnositic sharpness.


In the fictional TV show..i submit that the doctors that solved those cases "by brain power"........are the doctors I want in a emergency situation needing to make a judgement based on facts and figures presented to them in an acute situation....where going off to a computer for a consultation is not a possibility.

I submit based on no real evidence...just throwing darts........that the more we rely on computers in general...the less sharp our brains become....and that starts from gradeschool......and goes through our working years.

I am no exopert on the brain.....just an opinion.

when we see small children navigate on a smart phone or Ipad.....we exclaim how smart they are..how advanced they are. I dont see it. Ok they learned how to navigigate an electronic devise....how is that any different than a child in the old days that put together and took apart a puzzle many times, untill he could put it together very quickly based on the repetition.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I had this happen just last night. Went through a drive-in where the bill was 18.62. Handed him 20.12. He gave me back 49c. Geez, really? (Fixed it politely)

I figured this out. Took me a bit of time, but I figured this out. For the curious: Here is the mathematical proof:

18.62 is close to 18.60. If it were 18.60, she would be owed 0.40 in change, but at 18.62, its 38 cents she is owed. She gave him 12 cents extra so as to have the convenience of being given fifty cents which would only be two quarters rather than a bunch of change she would have to count and carry around.

Hey, folks... I told you I don't do arithmetic well.

Of course, I am reminded of the incident from BBB's field about some Air Traffic Controller who was so super-duper that the FAA asked some shrink-types to study him. It turns out that he went from high school to the Air Force and promptly learned the usual lesson: If it moves, salute it; if it is stationary, paint it. He also learned that the word "Air" precedes everything: Air Door, Air Desk, Air Mop, Air Bucket, etc. So when someone offered him training in Air Traffic Control, he felt traffic control training would help him get a police job later on. So thinking he was volunteering for being a military traffic cop, he became an air traffic controller.

My question to you is "Was he smart"?

In the Air Force, as an elisted man, he was exTREMEly smart to take ATC as his MOS. Climate controlled tower, sweetest branch of the service, standing still telling officers where to go, guaranteed placement (for all practical purposes) upon discharge for at least 2x salary he could earn anywhere in law enforcement, required rest and sustenance as a critical staffer. Only downside is when enemy strafes the airfield, you're a big, obvious target.

Not that I served. But I did do 4 years at Charleston AFB as an FAA ATC, so had a lot of interaction. And knew a lot of them. Air Force ATC had it much easier in almost all cases over Army/Navy/and especially Marine ATC. But Marines were the best trained, in part because they had approach controls where the others usually didn't.

Quote: beachbumbabs

In the Air Force, as an elisted man, he was exTREMEly smart to take ATC as his MOS.

I think you mean AFSC. MOS is an army thing. I remember at basic training where people would be so frazzled they would say their "MOS" instead of AFSC and get ripped apart lol.

Also the first place I've seen a male trainee cry because a female MTI was yelling at him.....

Once got pulled over by a Texas cop near Cotulla Springs, en-route to Nuevo Laredo. My buddy was driving and the cop asked him if we were in the military. John said " Sort Of " Cops got angry look on his face, until John added " we are in the Air Force "

Quote: Buzzard

Once got pulled over by a Texas cop near Cotulla Springs, en-route to Nuevo Laredo. My buddy was driving and the cop asked him if we were in the military. John said " Sort Of " Cops got angry look on his face, until John added " we are in the Air Force "

LOL

If I had a dollar every time somebody asked me if I fly fighter jets...... I'd have enough to get hustled out of a "mystery" bet at the Aria!

Quote: beachbumbabs

In the Air Force, as an elisted man, he was exTREMEly smart to take ATC as his MOS.

Ah, Charleston. Nice place. Temperatures are a bit high but even on Little Black Dress night in the bars the young ladies place a great deal of emphasis on bare skin rather than clothing.

My point about "was he smart" is to emphasize that he thought he would be directing vehicular traffic, not airplanes because the one thing he had learned promptly was to ignore the word "air" since it was all Air Mop That Air Floor and Air Peel Those Air Potatoes.

Everything you said about working conditions and job prospects is quite correct, so I would say he was certainly lucky, but was he smart? Wouldn't a smart person know what ATC means?

I remember waiting at a bus stop somewhere and a young man with a career ads pamphlet of some sort started asking me for advice. He saw the bold type add for Air Traffic Controller and I pointed out to him. That is a school. They sell training. If you want a job its either the military which won't charge you or the FAA which probably won't hire you. I asked him if he were good in math (no specific problem in wind shift changing the Runway Visual Range or anything) and told him even if he scored 100 on his final exam, the FAA will start with Veterans and Veterans with ATC experience so those with 120 get hired. Civilians with 100 would be lucky to be called to work in Cornstalk, Kansas. I've always wondered if I gave him bad advice or not.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I think there's an inevitable intellectual laziness that would creep in if doctors were allowed to just feed symptoms into a computer and accept its diagnosis. Too much overlap of symptoms, too many assumptions would get made. I think a hybrid system that gave solutions by percentage of likelihood, recommended distinguishing tests, and suggested secondary/alternate treatments could work very well.

That is what the Artificial Intelligence programs do. Diagnose by a list of various diseases, though usually treatments are not suggested at all. Here, the problem an acquaintance of mine has comes into play. She has a disease that in the USA is predominantly found amongst Blacks and she is White. The "Guidelines" spat out by computer are usually not optimal for her.

> But nothing seems to have replaced human interaction with a live patient yet.
Accessibility is the key question. Georgia forbids sending an MRI image out of state, which means a patient has to have a live doctor look at the image, but a patient in rural Georgia can't find an experienced image analyst and would prefer an out of state computer.

Quote: endermike

-Farming, at one time a human labor intensive job. Now it is mainly focused on science creating better crops and fertilizers. Also weather forecasts and the use of mechanical devices to do the labor

A substantial portion of the dumpster diving burger-flipper urban crowd of squatters are opting to return to the land as subsistence/small-scale farmers so as to own something in return for their slave-wage labor. Just as many are opting to re-work buses into micro homes as if this was the sixties all over again.

Quote: djatc

I think you mean AFSC. MOS is an army thing. I remember at basic training where people would be so frazzled they would say their "MOS" instead of AFSC and get ripped apart lol.

Also the first place I've seen a male trainee cry because a female MTI was yelling at him.....

I'm sure you're right; as I said, I didn't serve, and didn't know that different branches described that with different acronyms. Thanks for the correction. And thank you for your service.

Quote: FleaStiff

Ah, Charleston. Nice place. Temperatures are a bit high but even on Little Black Dress night in the bars the young ladies place a great deal of emphasis on bare skin rather than clothing.

My point about "was he smart" is to emphasize that he thought he would be directing vehicular traffic, not airplanes because the one thing he had learned promptly was to ignore the word "air" since it was all Air Mop That Air Floor and Air Peel Those Air Potatoes.

Everything you said about working conditions and job prospects is quite correct, so I would say he was certainly lucky, but was he smart? Wouldn't a smart person know what ATC means?

I remember waiting at a bus stop somewhere and a young man with a career ads pamphlet of some sort started asking me for advice. He saw the bold type add for Air Traffic Controller and I pointed out to him. That is a school. They sell training. If you want a job its either the military which won't charge you or the FAA which probably won't hire you. I asked him if he were good in math (no specific problem in wind shift changing the Runway Visual Range or anything) and told him even if he scored 100 on his final exam, the FAA will start with Veterans and Veterans with ATC experience so those with 120 get hired. Civilians with 100 would be lucky to be called to work in Cornstalk, Kansas. I've always wondered if I gave him bad advice or not.

You probably gave him reasonably good advice. A lot would depend on the timing of it. For example, RIGHT NOW and just opened for those who are interested, there's a huge hiring push on. Which means, 3 years general work experience, not yet reached 31st birthday, breathing. No experience/degree/MATC required, though preferred. They prefer to train their way, anyway, with a talented zero knowledge individual, than correct bad training from the CTI colleges or the service branches. So if anyone on here is interested, contact your nearest Office of Personnel Management and get set up for the testing. Or PM me if you need more info.

Other recent years, they were only hiring College ATC grads or military trained. Cue half-assed thrown together CTI schools. OOPS. Then they left a bunch of the kids "guaranteed" placement (such as that pamphlet you saw) with no job and $100K in college debt for trusting that the government would follow through on post-college placements. Left a bunch more by the wayside who tried to buy a job they couldn't do (got the degree, got hired, couldn't separate the cheeks of their ass, got washed out instead of inflicting them on an unsuspecting public). Left a hole within a larger hiring push exacerbated by mass hirings post-strike in 1981-1992, virtually all of whom are now eligible to retire, and thousands who've been forced to (at age 56). It's a situation that blows with the political winds and budget projections; very volatile.

Kinda sucks to get my CTI and then a few years later a PUBNAT is available.... I should have gotten my degree in underwater basket weaving, then apply as an ATC. I'm not too upset about it though, since it was a risk that didn't pay off for me, but there was value at the time.