Gambling for entertainment.
Quote: Mission146Haven't there been Playboys in braille?
I always bought Playboy for the editorials. Or so I told Josie.
Quote: Mission146I only fault casinos for not barring people in the most obvious of cases, like the guy who goes to the cage and has four or five different credit cards decline a cash advance, but there he is with his paycheck the following week before a single credit card bill actually gets paid. Okay, I'm willing to grant that is predatory, I wish that casino would say, "I'm sorry, we're not going to accept your action anymore," but it's that guy's own fault, as well.
I don't think he's uninformed, though. The guy had to get to the point where his cards were all maxed out and/or not paid in the first place, and are therefore declining, so I think he is plenty informed that he is destined to lose...he's sure as Hell done it enough times to know!
Don't forget the drunk asleep between pulls on a slot machine, or nodding off between hands at a BJ table. Or the two guys I saw cut off from any more drinks, but allowed to keep playing poker another 2 hours.
Forgot about the exclusion.Quote: Lemieux66I originally said if STDs don't exist. I would never get a hooker in real life.
The first was determined to be justifiable homicide after it was found that King shot Hillary Brown in the back and killed him while he was attempting to rob one of King's gambling houses.
King was convicted of second degree murder for the second killing in 1966 after he was found guilty of stomping to death an employee, Sam Garrett, who owed him $600.
Plead down to negligent homicide, serve 4 years, later pardoned by Governor after letters from Jesse Jackson and the usual gang.
But papers always referred to King as a former numbers runner or evil number's King. Steal money from welfare mothers, money that should have gone to buy milk for their hungry babies.
Hey, King and guys I collected for paid 700-1 for daily number. Now Maryland draws 3 digit and 4 digit numbers twice a day.
The EVIL state pays 500-1. And advertise on TV for new chumps
Quote: 1BBLEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! Google those three words if you've never seen it.
That's ridiculous...lol
Quote: Mission146I only fault casinos for not barring people in the most obvious of cases, like the guy who goes to the cage and has four or five different credit cards decline a cash advance, but there he is with his paycheck the following week
I've used this quote before, because it's indicative
of the industry to this day. Benny Binion used to
say his job wasn't done till the last check the
customer writes them bounces. He wasn't joking,
he wasn't speaking tongue in cheek. That's the
casinos attitude. If you're naive enough and dumb
enough to walk through the casinos door, thinking
you can win, the casino feels morally obligated
and entitled to take every dime you have.
Once you realize this, once you know it right down
to your socks, once there isn't a shadow of doubt
left, you will never look at casinos the same way
again. These are not friendly happy places, any more than
a black widows web is, for anybody but the spider itself.
make 6 figures a year ?
Quote: AxelWolfBob We all know casinos are predatory anyone who thinks different really needs a reality check. This dose not mean they cant be fun and worth the risk.
...
Gambling has a lot in common with drinking. The advertising is filled with fun and happiness. For some people that's true. For others its a nightmare.
I don't really think of the casinos as predatory. Do you think that the alcohol makers are predatory? (I like the analogy, by the way)
Obviously everyone who advertises anything implies that their product is better than it really is. If you watch the commercials for stuff to dye your grey hair, you'd think that if you dye your hair you will have hot bikini-clad 20-somethings hanging around with you at swimming pools. Does that make them predatory?
Quote: EvenBobYou understand the system, the majority
of players don't. The point is, the vast majority of
players do NOT find losing entertaining. They don't
enjoy the plane ride home after losing $5K, when
they had so many hopes of winning. I don't know
any sane person that says yeah, I lost $5K but gee,
I sure had fun. Can't wait to go back. That person
has serious issues.
People are so disingenuos about losing. Whether they go on a game show and win nothing and tell the host at the end "its ok i had a great time", or people who gamble with the expectation that they will lose each time, and it becomes a self fullfilled prophesy with the pot of gold being "fun"
Losing your money at gambling very quickly is not "fun. Grinding and grinding through a tough table and eventually losing is not fun either. I guess if you load up with alcohol, oir shoot up with heroin before gambling you can convince yourself you are having fun. You can depress your brain center to feel good about it.
And people that lose at gambling will rationalize how much better off they are than other people
I lost 500 but at least I dont spend 200k on a Rolls Royce
I lost 400 but at least I am not spending 5k a year on cigarettes
I lost 500 but at least I dont spend 20k a year on cruises
I lost 600 but at least I dont have 12 children
I lost 350 but at least I have "fun"......and people who "have fun" playing polo spend alot more money than me
I lost 400, but if I wanted to fly to italy tonight it would cost alot more.
I lost 400 but at least I can control it....my family is intact.
I lost 400 but at least I got a free meal that cost the casino 5 bucks.
I remeber the game show "deal or no deal"....people would turn down tens of thousands of dollars.....going for it. And at the end when they have won 25 dollars....they say,,,they had fun and have more than they started with. Yeah right. Losers are not dissappointed. They "have a blast"...funny
Quote: EvenBob
Once you realize this, once you know it right down
to your socks, once there isn't a shadow of doubt
left, you will never look at casinos the same way
again. These are not friendly happy places, any more than
a black widows web is, for anybody but the spider itself.
They are what you make them, I'm simply suggesting that a house could be proactive in only the worst cases, not that I fault them for not being proactive or offering the games to begin with.
Quote: LarryS
Losing your money at gambling very quickly is not "fun. Grinding and grinding through a tough table and eventually losing is not fun either. I guess if you load up with alcohol, oir shoot up with heroin before gambling you can convince yourself you are having fun. You can depress your brain center to feel good about it.
Are you suggesting that casinos are the worst form of entertainment imaginable? I really don't understand either of the two opposite extremes regarding this issue. I also don't know that anyone must drink or shoot up heroin to have fun gambling.
This has been done to death, here. I'm not doing the concert comparison again because the conversation that there is nothing "Fun," or "Entertaining," about casino gambling for anyone, ever, regardless of how little they gamble relative to their income, no matter how much they would otherwise spend on other forms of entertainment, unless they are delusional, drugged or drunk is just a ridiculous conversation.
Mission146 is out, (of this thread) PEACE!
Quote: Mission146They are what you make them.
No they're not, they are what they are. That's
like saying the electric chair is what you make it.
No, what you think of it doesn't change what it is.
What you think of casinos doesn't change what
they are one bit.
Quote: EvenBobNo they're not, they are what they are. That's
like saying the electric chair is what you make it.
No, what you think of it doesn't change what it is.
What you think of casinos doesn't change what
they are one bit.
the people who are in it "for fun" are the biggest losers.
Because they are the people who will drive an hour tothe casino......get a great run and win 300 at craps in the first 20 min....and then declare to themselves..."hey i am here for fun"..and since their goal is the fun of playing the game..they stay and lose....and hence the self fullfilled prophecy.....that they expected to lose but have "fun" at the same time.
look at the people on the average bus ride home from the casino. Alot of happy people who accomplished their goal to "have fun".
Plane rides back from vegas.....alot of people grinning ear to ear because the lost alot of money,,,,but the fun factor is dominant in their minds?
People walking down the hall of their hotel room at 3 am....slamming the walls.....are they happy campers?
Just because the casino has the advantage, doesnt mean you are doomed to lose on every trip. If you play to win, take the games seriously, pay attention to the game, and your bets. Concentrate on making the best bets at a particular time ....you can come ut a winner sometimes a half a dozen trips in a row....or more. But if you go in with the attitude that you are doomed to lose, are willing to lose, in exchange for fun.....well those folks are generally gonna make sure that occurs..and they will proclaim the loss was fun
Quote: Mission146Are you suggesting that casinos are the worst form of entertainment imaginable? I really don't understand either of the two opposite extremes regarding this issue. I also don't know that anyone must drink or shoot up heroin to have fun gambling.
This has been done to death, here. I'm not doing the concert comparison again because the conversation that there is nothing "Fun," or "Entertaining," about casino gambling for anyone, ever, regardless of how little they gamble relative to their income, no matter how much they would otherwise spend on other forms of entertainment, unless they are delusional, drugged or drunk is just a ridiculous conversation.
Mission146 is out, (of this thread) PEACE!
no, i can say collecting beanie babies is worse, watching Harcore Pawn, or Storage wars is worse.
Quote: Mission146Are you suggesting that casinos are the worst form of entertainment imaginable?
No, going to public executions is probably a worse
form of entertainment. Do you think it's a coincidence
that very bright people like Grosjean and Axelrad feel
exactly the same way about casinos. Why do you think
that is, what do they know that you don't. They know
the truth, that's what they know.
People who think casino gambling is great fun and great
entertainment are self enablers. They want to do it, so
they kid themselves about it. Like telling yourself eating
a box of chocolates every day won't make you fat. Self
enabling.
Quote: djatcI remember cashing out of a poker room and the cashier asked me how'd you do? And I said I broke even, the dealers got paid though, then she replied, "well you have fun didn't you?" which was pretty stupid and insulting in my opinion..
Ya know? Sometimes when I leave and cash
in a few hundred in chips and the lady will
say, 'looks like you did OK'. And I'll say how
do you know I didn't buy in for a thousand.
Idiots.
Four weeks later she is stuck again but I literally can't Go. I call the casino to see if they can help her home or take my credit card to give her $5. I'm told someone will call me back.
She is freakIng out. I call women's shelter and no help. They gave me a lead to tell her to call 211. I think United Way helped somehow and she made it home.
Wound up getting call from director of security and he told me if they have a problem, they can talk to gaming agents for self-exclusion and direct her to help. So basically this friend is so desperate and hopeless, she goes to the casino and loses 80-100 and the casino can't even give a hoot to even cash a check for $5 from her or give it to her. I'm not saying the casino should because of it's their fault, but have a heart and help with the least they could do just as a courtesy.
Quote: EvenBob
People who think casino gambling is great fun and great
entertainment are self enablers. They want to do it, so
they kid themselves about it. Like telling yourself eating
a box of chocolates every day won't make you fat. Self
enabling.
Would it be death to eat a piece, or occasionally a few pieces, of chocolate?
Try again.
Quote: Mission146Would it be death to eat a piece, or occasionally a few pieces, of chocolate?
.
Most people deal in self enabling behavior when
they gamble. The comps help a lot, in a twisted
perverted way they are a reward for enriching
the casino from your own resources. Kinda like
the dope dealer giving a junkie a free dime
bag once in awhile, and the junkie is actually
grateful. Thinks the dealer is a great guy, just
like the player feels about the casino who gives
him a free room. They're giving you back some
of your OWN money, ferchisakes..
Sweet. I'm going next trip.Quote: djatcFat Choy at Eureka in LV is one of the best Chinese places I've been to, no lie. The duck rice is perfect in every which way and if it weren't for the location which looks the area cops usually wait a little bit longer to get to when they get a homicide call it would be where I would play for food comps.
Quote: EvenBobMost people deal in self enabling behavior when
they gamble. The comps help a lot, in a twisted
perverted way they are a reward for enriching
the casino from your own resources. Kinda like
the dope dealer giving a junkie a free dime
bag once in awhile, and the junkie is actually
grateful. Thinks the dealer is a great guy, just
like the player feels about the casino who gives
him a free room. They're giving you back some
of your OWN money, ferchisakes..
And the difference between giving you a room for your money and going to a hotel and paying for a room with your money would be...
I mean, check it out. You go to Four Queens and you pay $32.xx for the room, out the door, assuming you even have to pay for it at all. You go downstairs with some small amount of money and you play 9/6 JoB for nickels, $0.25/bet, and they give you a bunch of free drinks. You can eat at Magnolia's and get the Prime Rib Special and a pop (why pay for alcohol at the restaurant, free on the floor) for $13 + tip. If you really wanted to, and you're willing to play the machine a bit slow, you could make an entire evening/night of this for, maybe, seventy bucks.
Alternatively, for $60, you're 3/4 of the way to staying in my cheapest room. No food, (unless you count the continental breakfast) no free drinks (unless the HK's found some beer in the rooms left behind which I then give away) and no entertainment other than the DirecTV...I guess someone can come bull**** with me if they find it absolutely necessary, but other than that.
Or, you can talk about something like Loose Deuces at The D which is still a cheap $0.25 bet, only the long term expectation of that game is to multiply all the cash you put in there by 1.016. That's value. Do you know they sent me a BOGO coupon for a hotel stay along with $5 Free Play and $5 Match Play? Not only am I staying there two of my days on this upcoming trip for $25.xx, out the door, but then I also have the ER from the free play and match play that they are giving me just for the pleasure of having me at their Loose Deuces machine where my long term expectation is winning!!!
The only practical function I serve for them is that I contribute to their cocktail waitress having a decent day, and the D Grill, might eat there again.
Quote: EvenBobMost people deal in self enabling behavior when
they gamble. The comps help a lot, in a twisted
perverted way they are a reward for enriching
the casino from your own resources. Kinda like
the dope dealer giving a junkie a free dime
bag once in awhile, and the junkie is actually
grateful. Thinks the dealer is a great guy, just
like the player feels about the casino who gives
him a free room. They're giving you back some
of your OWN money, ferchisakes..
its self enabling but also self deluding.
there is nothing "fun" about driving 2 hours to a casino and 2 hours back and losing your money within an hour. There is nothing "fun" about driving 2 hours to a casino and driving 2 hours back and leaving with 200 profit after just 10 minutes play. You can be happy with the win, satisfied with the win, but you didnt get your fill of "fun". Gambling is a grind. To make it more tolerable you can take alcohol, cocaine, heroin. But it is generally a grind it out type of activity.
The more alcohol, cocaine or heroin you take the better your can repress reality.
Unlike tickets to sports events, gambling has no beginning middle and end. No set timeframe that you know ahead of time that you can extract enjoyment. It can be over in a short period of time.Unlike tickets to a cruise which will last for a predetermined period of time for the money you pay....gambling has no such timeframe.
really, when someone goes to vegas and I ask how did they do..and they say they lost but had a good time...it is conceivable it can be true if they went to a bunch of shows and site seeing. But if all they did is gamble, and drink alcohol.......all I can do is smile and think to myself "sure you did"
There is no one more phoney than a person who goes to vegas with the intention to gamble for 7 days and do nothing else...and try to hand me the bill of goods that they were just there to have fun....and winning wasnt really on their mind.
And when they lose 1000 for the week but tell me they are "about even" when you figure in the free drinks and meals....all I can do is smile.
If you just want to gamble (and nothing else) local casinos are probably a better option for most people.
Quote: LarrySUnlike tickets to sports events, gambling has no beginning middle and end. No set timeframe that you know ahead of time that you can extract enjoyment. It can be over in a short period of time.Unlike tickets to a cruise which will last for a predetermined period of time for the money you pay....gambling has no such timeframe.
.
Unless you're an AP, or have a huge amount of money
and make small bets, you can't plan gambling at all.
It's not like 18 holes of golf that you'll know you will enjoy
and takes about 4 hours. Gambling doesn't offer that
luxury.
Quote: Mission146What if you don't like shows? I can watch sub-par entertainment on TV.
there is this thing called the internet...you can get reviews of all the shows. Professional reviewes along with public reviews. Add that to your knowledge of the performers from past experience. You cant go wrong unless you haphazardly just choose acts you nevr heard of and didnt research.
Also sight seeing is available as well.
whenever I go to vegas I research shows I think I will like...if its a real popular show I will get tix in advance, if there are a few that I will chance getting discount same day tix..then I will do that, and also visit the Bellagio art museum.
My memories of vegas are not a bunch of encounters with machines, and a few 13 dollar steaks.
And when I leave vegas I can say I had a good time, because I dont gamble as much and do other things(i gamble every weekend the rest of the year in reno...so why do the same stuff in vegas). If other people do other stuff, like shop or site see, or take a drive to arizona.....they can say the same. My itinerary may not be everyones cup of tea.
But if I went to vegas with the intention to just drink alcohol, and gamble, and eat cheap steak....then I would not delude myself and would indeed admit that i was going there to try to win. And if the mission isnt accomplished....then that would be a dissappointment.......not a "fun time"
no one likes to travel cross country to vegas,,,,spends 2 days traveling waiting on line at airports, at car rental place, at hotel check in......with the intention of only gambling for 5 days......and then end up losing for the week...and then think that was a "fun time"...i cant wait to get to the airport 3 hours in advance and waiton lines and make my way back home with memories of free alcohol, cheap meals, and a lighter wallet to fuel my homeward journey
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe thing is, how many people go to Vegas ONLY to gamble? When I go, there are lots of people at the nightclubs, at the events (concerts, fights, whatever), at the shows, at the pools, at the restaurants... A place like the MGM grand will never be more packed then it is after a big show in the grand garden arena lets out. Obviously those people are not all there just to gamble.
If you just want to gamble (and nothing else) local casinos are probably a better option for most people.
the thread is not titled gambling in vegas for entertainment.
most people who live near vegas who want to gamble will drive in and just gamble. People who live near atlantic city will drive in to gamble. Numerous indian casinos get gamblers that arent there for nightlife or shows.
in general people who gamble and proclaim its just for fun are liars
they intend to win, they want to win, they crave winning....but they dont..and hide behind the "fun" angle
I really hope casino personnel don't sharpen up anytime soon and think all gamblers are her for "entertainment". I would hate to lose my $300 steakhouse comps playing a 102% < game :(
Quote: LarryS
But if I went to vegas with the intention to just drink alcohol, and gamble, and eat cheap steak....then I would not delude myself and would indeed admit that i was going there to try to win. And if the mission isnt accomplished....then that would be a dissappointment.......not a "fun time"
At Loose Deuces? Are you suggesting that I am deluding myself into believing I am going to get rich on a machine with a top pay of $200!?
That's hilarious!
Let me give you my general itinerary for my upcoming trip, other than saying who I am meeting for dinner or things like that:
SUNDAY:
-Land around 9:00a.m.
-Bus to Downtown Grand, staying at Downtown Grand to do Review
-Take bags to bellhop until check-in time
-Take Bus to the Strip, use most (if not all) Free Play and Match Plays from LVA and ACG---for purposes of article
-Use all Strip new Member free plays
-See if Lion's Share at MGM Grand is open, but maybe not, may check it Monday
-Return Downtown, Check into room at Downtown Grand
-Eat at Downtown Grand restaurants
-Look for slot advantage plays at Downtown Grand, when complete SLOOOOOWWWWWW Play a crappy $0.05/denom VP game or play one line one unit per line $0.05 slot machine for free drinks.
-Gather information about casino history, old Lady Luck, Table Games for Review
-Go to bed
MONDAY:
-Check out of room and take luggage to bellhop at The D
-Take bus to The Strip, check on Lion's Share, use free buffet coupon for brunch from MyVegas
-Use remaining coupons from ACG and LVA, if any.
-Return Downtown, use all LVA and ACG Free Play and Match Play coupons
-Check in at The D
-Play Loose Deuces, drink.
-Go get $4.95 Burger & Beer at El Cortez
-Play more Loose Deuces, continue to drink.
TUESDAY:
-Breakfast at D Grill
-MAYBE check on Lion's Share again, if I have another food coupon from MyVegas
-Return Downtown
-Vulture advantageous slot machines, vulture Ultimate X at GN and EC
-Play Loose Deuces
-Eat at Paradise Buffet
-Vulture advantageous slots and Ultimate X
-Play more Loose Deuces
-Craps at either Fremont or El Cortez, preferably $3.00 table, $100 buy-in, double or lose all. If double, maybe play again following night, same parameters.
-Play more Loose Deuces
WEDNESDAY:
-Check out of The D
-Take bags to Four Queens to bellhop until check in time
-Walk to Stratosphere to do roof thing
-Walk back
-Vulture advantageous slots situations and Ultimate X
-Play 9/6 JoB at Four Queens or Loose Deuces at the D
-Dinner at Magnolia's
-Vulture advantageous slots and Ultimate X
-Go to The D and play Loose Deuces
THURSDAY:
(Roughly the same as Wednesday, except dinner will likely be D Grill, no buffet before a day I have to fly on a plane)
---I'm sure I missed something, but it's mainly all low-level advantage plays, drinking, eating, negative expectation gambling, in that order.
Quote: Mission146At Loose Deuces? Are you suggesting that I am deluding myself into believing I am going to get rich on a machine with a top pay of $200!?
That's hilarious!
Hey leave some money for the rest of us APs! We're starving out here!
Quote: EvenBobGambling is only entertaining if you're winning.
If you feel happy and jolly as you're losing, the
Marque de Sade could have used you as one
of his 'clients'. Casinos aren't there to entertain,
their job is to squeeze every dime they can out of you
because you were naive enough to walk into
their spider web of deceit and misdirection.
Aw come on, Bob. This week is kid's week at Foxwoods and it just so happens that Connecticut schools are off. See how caring casinos can be?
Quote: LarrySthe thread is not titled gambling in vegas for entertainment.
most people who live near vegas who want to gamble will drive in and just gamble. People who live near atlantic city will drive in to gamble. Numerous indian casinos get gamblers that arent there for nightlife or shows.
in general people who gamble and proclaim its just for fun are liars
they intend to win, they want to win, they crave winning....but they dont..and hide behind the "fun" angle
It's just like playing a sport. No one does it because it is fun. All they want to do is win and if you've lost well then you didn't have fun and all you did was waste time.
since you mentioned thst a few years ago at the lasvegas blvd mall on Maryland had an arcade with a big 6 wheel type game I was astonnished it gave out cash prizes someone altered what should have been ticket numbers and tapped bills to the wheel.Quote: Lemieux66At the Nugget in AC they have a slot machine for kids that I'm pretty certain is very loose. Gotta get them trained!
Quote: geoffIt's just like playing a sport. No one does it because it is fun. All they want to do is win and if you've lost well then you didn't have fun and all you did was waste time.
well ask peyton mnnning after the superbowl...you lost...but at least you had fun...right?...see what his response is
Quote: LarrySwell ask peyton mnnning after the superbowl...you lost...but at least you had fun...right?...see what his response is
That's his job though. He may not have won the game, but he still got paid for it.
Quote: onenickelmiracle...the casino can't even give a hoot to even cash a check for $5 from her or give it to her. I'm not saying the casino should because of it's their fault, but have a heart and help with the least they could do just as a courtesy.
Gimme a break. As much as I hate casinos, why the heck should they "give" anyone $5? Every loser under the sun would soon expect money from them.
Aside from poker, I don't know of any professional gamblers. Are there professional roulette players out there that somehow manage to win money consistently at a game that is statistically impossible to beat over the long term? Professional slot players?
I don't gamble often but I definitely consider it entertainment. I can spend $200 taking my wife to dinner and a movie, or I can spend that same $200 on a more modest dinner and a couple of hours at the casino. I might even occasionally leave the casino with a few dollars, something I can't say for the movie theater.
In general, when I go to a casino I have a budget in mind for the day. Whether that budget is $100 or $1000 is inconsequential. When that money is spent, I'm done for the day. If I am fortunate enough to find myself with triple my budget in my pocket and I feel like calling it a night, I do so. If I feel like putting it all on black and the marble hits red, so what? I planned to spend $X and I did exactly that.
If you're habitually walking into a casino with the expectation of coming out ahead, you're either delusional or just bad at math.
Quote: TerribleTomAside from poker, I don't know of any professional gamblers.
Stay a while, read a bit. There are lots of ways to make money in a casino.
It's not the time spent after the results are tallied that I play for, it's the time spent anticipating the result. If I wanted to make money, I'd go to work instead.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceStay a while, read a bit. There are lots of ways to make money in a casino.
He may have meant "personally". But yes, quite a few non-poker APs here.
Quote: Mission146
Or, you can talk about something like Loose Deuces at The D which is still a cheap $0.25 bet, only the long term expectation of that game is to multiply all the cash you put in there by 1.016. That's value. Do you know they sent me a BOGO coupon for a hotel stay along with $5 Free Play and $5 Match Play? Not only am I staying there two of my days on this upcoming trip for $25.xx, out the door, but then I also have the ER from the free play and match play that they are giving me just for the pleasure of having me at their Loose Deuces machine where my long term expectation is winning!!!
But you did put your player's card in while playing that 95% Joker machine that you thought was 100%+, didn't you? If the Loose Deuces gave you full comps, I'd be surprised.
Quote: tringlomane
But you did put your player's card in while playing that 95% Joker machine that you thought was 100%+, didn't you? If the Loose Deuces gave you full comps, I'd be surprised.
Personally, I think they send that offer to everyone who is even alive. The points counters work the same way on both machines, so I can't speak to whether the computer generated the offer based on that or whether it was discretionary. I think anyone who is alive probably gets that offer, though, I couldn't have earned more than a few hundred points there, even with all the time I spent playing.
Furthermore, my wife got the same exact offers, and my card had to have had twice the play that hers did.
I agree but a casino being jack Shit unprepared to handle people in crisis situations is just as stupid. This woman was stuck there almost 24 hours the first time and obviously didn't feel comfortable asking anyone for help before I became involved. It would be nice if something could be done besides using their own problem against them to not be involved. I don't know what the gaming regulators would be able to do or what their advice would be when people talk to them about self-exclusion from all PA casinos. It's all ****ed up either way.Quote: Beethoven9thGimme a break. As much as I hate casinos, why the heck should they "give" anyone $5? Every loser under the sun would soon expect money from them.
