Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 8:28:03 AM permalink
On Monday September 2, 2013 I sent an email to South Side Advantage Press. They are the publisher of CAA: Beyond Counting by James Grosjean. At that time their website did not allow for purchasing of either of the Beyond Counting books. I asked Are either of the Beyond Counting books available for purchase? I am a Table Games Manager at a small Casino and would be interested in purchasing a copy. I got no response.

Finally, on Sunday January 26, 2014 (Almost 5 months later) I get this response:

I am sorry that your email having been lost in our pile. Our product has very narrow market and customer such as yourself has no usefulness in it, but thank you for your interest!

Natalija
South Side Advantage Press


Now I really don't care that they don't want to sell me the book. I can get it elsewhere. But I find a few things about this very interesting.

1. 5 months is a long time to have "a pile" and not look through it.
2. You would think they would have someone answering email questions with someone that can form a proper sentence.
3. What gives them (her) the right to decide if the book is useful to me? I didn't ask if she thought the book would be of any use. I asked to purchase one.

My reply to her email was:

"Thatís really funny that you would know if I would have any use for it. Congratulations on your psychic skills."

Seems like a great company...


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 8:35:48 AM permalink
Probably an offshore E-Mail answering service, noticed her first name. I don't believe that's unusual, if I'm not mistaken, many on-line insta-chat HELP services outsource that. They can get that help, perhaps not for pennies on the dollar, but certainly for dimes on the dollar, hey hey.

(Sorry, I had to do that just once. I might be the only person that finds Soxfan's, "Hey hey," amusing.)
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 10:53:28 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

On Monday September 2, 2013 I sent an email to South Side Advantage Press. They are the publisher of CAA: Beyond Counting by James Grosjean. At that time their website did not allow for purchasing of either of the Beyond Counting books. I asked Are either of the Beyond Counting books available for purchase? I am a Table Games Manager at a small Casino and would be interested in purchasing a copy. I got no response.

Finally, on Sunday January 26, 2014 (Almost 5 months later) I get this response:

I am sorry that your email having been lost in our pile. Our product has very narrow market and customer such as yourself has no usefulness in it, but thank you for your interest!

Natalija
South Side Advantage Press


Now I really don't care that they don't want to sell me the book. I can get it elsewhere. But I find a few things about this very interesting.

1. 5 months is a long time to have "a pile" and not look through it.
2. You would think they would have someone answering email questions with someone that can form a proper sentence.
3. What gives them (her) the right to decide if the book is useful to me? I didn't ask if she thought the book would be of any use. I asked to purchase one.

My reply to her email was:

"Thatís really funny that you would know if I would have any use for it. Congratulations on your psychic skills."

Seems like a great company...


ZCore13



You got a reply!!??!! I'm jealous.

I'll answer your question #3 though. It's their book, and they can choose to sell it, or not sell it, to whomever they want. That's what gives them the right. If you had written the book, you'd have that right.
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 11:08:48 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

You got a reply!!??!! I'm jealous.

I'll answer your question #3 though. It's their book, and they can choose to sell it, or not sell it, to whomever they want. That's what gives them the right. If you had written the book, you'd have that right.



of course they have a right to not sell me the book if they don't want to. That is not the issue here. They said they did not want to sell me the book because it has no use to me.my question was what right do they have to tell me if I have a use for it or not?

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 11:26:20 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

of course they have a right to not sell me the book if they don't want to. That is not the issue here. They said they did not want to sell me the book because it has no use to me.my question was what right do they have to tell me if I have a use for it or not?

ZCore13



I think that's covered under freedom of speech?

What is your complaint here? You work for a casino. They are not going to sell you the book.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 11:31:34 AM permalink
Semantics gentlemen, of course they have a 'right' to say Zcore13 doesn't have use for it. I don't think they have a reasonable basis to make a determination that it won't be useful.

They should have simply said they are not going to sell it without any elaboration.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 12:07:09 PM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

Semantics gentlemen, of course they have a 'right' to say Zcore13 doesn't have use for it. I don't think they have a reasonable basis to make a determination that it won't be useful.

They should have simply said they are not going to sell it without any elaboration.



I think that they know full well that he has a use for it, and what that use is, which is exactly why they aren't selling it to him.

ZCore: Did you mention that you work for a casino in your initial email?
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 4300
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 12:17:38 PM permalink
Grosjean is notorious for not selling the book to almost anyone. Why did you mention that you work for a casino? That's literally the worst thing you could have said. You might have stood a chance if you said you were an aspiring AP.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 12:40:18 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I think that they know full well that he has a use for it, and what that use is, which is exactly why they aren't selling it to him.

ZCore: Did you mention that you work for a casino in your initial email?



Yes, I did. But that's just silly. I can just get one somewhere else. The cost of the book, no matter what the price is not going to put a dent in my Table Games budget. :)

Why make up some dumb excuse that I would have no use for it?


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 12:41:59 PM permalink
Bernie Madoff was also very selective. You had to have a friend recommend you. Or Bernie had to let you in, just because he liked you.

Just saying.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 12:43:02 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Grosjean is notorious for not selling the book to almost anyone. Why did you mention that you work for a casino? That's literally the worst thing you could have said. You might have stood a chance if you said you were an aspiring AP.



I don't know him or his thoughts on his books secondary sales market. Some people don't like when their stuff is sold for a higher price elsewhere, so I was offering to purchase it direct. It's really no bid deal, just not a very professional reply by them in more than one way.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 12:44:59 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Yes, I did. But that's just silly. I can just get one somewhere else. The cost of the book, no matter what the price is not going to put a dent in my Table Games budget. :)

Why make up some dumb excuse that I would have no use for it?


ZCore13



So pay the extra price. Did you really think that they would sell you the book after you told them that you worked for a casino?

The book is actually quite hard to find (I'm talking about CAA, not the original). I've looked around. I have not seen it on ebay or CL or amazon. I did get one private offer to sell me a copy, but the price was around $4000 which seemed a little steep to me.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 12:50:11 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

just not a very professional reply by them in more than one way.



You have to understand who you are talking to. They are not professional book publishers, they are professional gamblers. They don't care about customer service, and their goal is not to sell as many books as possible.

Honestly, I'm surprised that the reply you got was as polite as it was.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:00:28 PM permalink
Or just take the easy way :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detailed-notes-on-the-2009-James-Grosjean-book-Beyond-Counting-Exhibit-CAA-/290922970307?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item43bc5c3cc3

Ah Ebay, con man's paradise !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 1:02:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

So pay the extra price. Did you really think that they would sell you the book after you told them that you worked for a casino?

The book is actually quite hard to find (I'm talking about CAA, not the original). I've looked around. I have not seen it on ebay or CL or amazon. I did get one private offer to sell me a copy, but the price was around $4000 which seemed a little steep to me.



Actually, yes, I did think they would sell one to me. Like I said, I can get one. It's not that hard. I asked them for either of the versions. Their are 3 original used Beyond Counting books for sale right now on Amazon. One for $995, one for $1,898 and one for $1,899. One new one for $2,000.

In reality, there is more value between here, Wizard of Odds, APHeat and Discount Gambling, than from the book I'm sure. I've seen portions of the book and descriptions. To me the $4,000 is way steep knowing about all the great information on the mentioned and other sites.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:07:18 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Or just take the easy way :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detailed-notes-on-the-2009-James-Grosjean-book-Beyond-Counting-Exhibit-CAA-/290922970307?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item43bc5c3cc3

Ah Ebay, con man's paradise !



Meh. I saw that. That's not the book. I'm not paying $250 for some guy's notes.

Grosjean's writing has A LOT of subtlety in it. I learn something new every time I read Beyond Counting. I don't believe for a second that this guy's capture even a small fraction of that.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:10:09 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Actually, yes, I did think they would sell one to me. Like I said, I can get one. It's not that hard. I asked them for either of the versions. Their are 3 original used Beyond Counting books for sale right now on Amazon. One for $995, one for $1,898 and one for $1,899. One new one for $2,000.



Yes, that is the original Beyond Counting. That one is not hard to get. Although the price has gone up a bit... when I got my copy on Amazon it was only about $500. Looks like I made a good investment after all! Not that I would ever sell it.

Quote:

In reality, there is more value between here, Wizard of Odds, APHeat and Discount Gambling, than from the book I'm sure. I've seen portions of the book and descriptions. To me the $4,000 is way steep knowing about all the great information on the mentioned and other sites.



Not even close. Don't get me wrong, these are great sites, and I read them all, it's not the same. There is stuff in the original Beyond Counting that I've never seen published anywhere else.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:15:21 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Meh. I saw that. That's not the book. I'm not paying $250 for some guy's notes.

Grosjean's writing has A LOT of subtlety in it. I learn something new every time I read Beyond Counting. I don't believe for a second that this guy's capture even a small fraction of that.




Don't be surprised if the notes are almost verbatim. I sure would not be.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:17:30 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Don't be surprised if the notes are almost verbatim. I sure would not be.



I would be. I'm sure that Grosjean has bought a copy, and I'm sure that he would sue the guy if it really did infringe his copyright.
sodawater
sodawater
  • Threads: 64
  • Posts: 3321
Joined: May 14, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:20:40 PM permalink
I don't really understand why Grosjean wrote this book if he doesn't want to sell it to anyone and doesn't want anyone to read it.

Clearly the demand for the book is there. Why not fire off another press run of 1000 books, price them at $300 each, and make a quick $300,000?

However, I also want to say that if I were Grosjean, I wouldn't sell it to anyone who worked in a casino, either. After the way casinos have treated him, illegally detaining him, and treating him like he is a criminal, I wouldn't take a dime of their money.
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 5072
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:24:11 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'm sure that he would sue the guy if it really did infringe his copyright.


Not if the guy has no money. lol...
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:27:04 PM permalink
You have never dealt with Ebay, I can see. Chinese DVDs all over the place, Bootleg DVD's and you think a scumbag won't copy a book.
By the time Grosjean could bring anybody to court, some other scumbag would be selling that book. And just try and get Ebay to stop selling such shit. Hollywood can't, what makes you think Grosjean can ?

If shut down on Ebay lots of other places to sell counterfeit goods :

http://www.businessinsider.com/ebay-seller-threat-2013-1

His book has a limited market, so Grosjean just ignores this stuff, I would imagine.

I always see Jane Fonda 1982 Workout DVD's all over the place or on somebodies own website. Was even listed as another source on Amazon. Was never released as a DVd NEVER !

Check Amazon, no direct like now, but the links there lead to bootleg listing.

Probably the personal website got shut down when Jane's new DVDs came out, but still easy to find elsewhere.

Just stating facts. I am always HONEST. The only bootleg Janes I sold were VHS. LOL
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:28:58 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Not if the guy has no money. lol...



Oh, sure he would. Not for the money; to get the guy to stop.

I am fairly sure that the point of this book is not to make money. If that was the goal, he would sell it to people who wanted to buy it.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:30:17 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

I always see Jane Fonda 1982 Workout DVD's all over the place or on somebodies own website. Was even listed as another source on Amazon. Was never released as a DVd NEVER !



Forget football props, this is Buzz's REAL area of expertise :)
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 5072
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:43:55 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Oh, sure he would. Not for the money; to get the guy to stop.

I am fairly sure that the point of this book is not to make money. If that was the goal, he would sell it to people who wanted to buy it.


I agree with your second statement, but regarding the first, Grosjean isn't going to waste his time & money suing some individual punk. Like Buzzard said, I doubt that he will succeed where the deep pockets of Hollywood and the music industry have failed.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:44:20 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Oh, sure he would. Not for the money; to get the guy to stop.

I am fairly sure that the point of this book is not to make money. If that was the goal, he would sell it to people who wanted to buy it.




Hey, if he brings a light to the fact, then other scumbags will start selling the book. As it is this guy has sold 14 and made over 5 grand. Who said crime does not pay ? If the guy is careful, he can even prevail in court. Nigerian courts always favor the Nigerian.

Best way to sell a classic VHS film on DVD , if not available ? Sell a VHS tape along with bootleg DVD copy. An owner is allowed to so that.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:46:44 PM permalink
Hated when VHS went out of style, now CD's are going away. And movies downloaded onto computer, tablet, dvd, etc.
And with Nook and stuff, can hardly make any money from books now.

How the hell is a man supposed to make an honest living ? ? ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
January 28th, 2014 at 1:48:11 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Hated when VHS went out of style, now CD's are going away. And movies downloaded onto computer, tablet, dvd, etc.
And with Nook and stuff, can hardly make any money from books now.

How the hell is a man supposed to make an honest living ? ? ?



Get on unemployment. You'll make more money not working then working. Apply to jobs you are not qualified for just to satisfy requirements to keep the govt cheese rolling.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:50:54 PM permalink
Hey, can't collect unemployment. They have this asinine rule about having had a job in the past. I mean I did have a good paying job, but not in this century. Retired in 99. Ooops better make that 1999, so Bob does not make some smart ass remark.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 5761
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:51:57 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Hey, if he brings a light to the fact, then other scumbags will start selling the book. As it is this guy has sold 14 and made over 5 grand. Who said crime does not pay ? If the guy is careful, he can even prevail in court. Nigerian courts always favor the Nigerian.



I'll have you know that I just won the Nigerian lottery! Which is especially amazing since I didn't even buy a ticket. My teachers in school were right; I am really am lucky compared to all the people over there.

Anyway they are going to send me a check for $10,001,000. The prize is only $10,000,000 though so I'm going to send them back $1000.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:54:04 PM permalink
Damn, why can't I ever be that lucky !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
January 28th, 2014 at 1:55:35 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'll have you know that I just won the Nigerian lottery! Which is especially amazing since I didn't even buy a ticket. My teachers in school were right; I am really am lucky compared to all the people over there.

Anyway they are going to send me a check for $10,001,000. The prize is only $10,000,000 though so I'm going to send them back $1000.



You should publish a book on how to win lotteries, but only sell them to people that have proper credentials. Also you might want to scour ebay for people selling notes from your book.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3815
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
January 28th, 2014 at 1:57:26 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'll have you know that I just won the Nigerian lottery! Which is especially amazing since I didn't even buy a ticket. My teachers in school were right; I am really am lucky compared to all the people over there.

Anyway they are going to send me a check for $10,001,000. The prize is only $10,000,000 though so I'm going to send them back $1000.



If you send me $500 right now I can work with my partners and have that money sent directly to your bank with no check needed. It will be deposited within 30 minutes after me receiving my money. It's basically a free service I provide to Nigerian Lottery Winners. Let me know when you are ready and I'll give you my info to Western Union me.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 1:57:30 PM permalink
Just be aware competition will be heavy. Lots of books on winning lottery already on Amazon !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Buzzard
Buzzard
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
January 28th, 2014 at 2:11:25 PM permalink
And of course the low down on how damn difficult it is to stop someone from bootlegging any book.


http://www.llewellyn.com/blog/2012/01/myths-about-pirated-books/
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3616
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
June 27th, 2016 at 4:07:07 PM permalink
delete
  • Jump to: