If you could choose, would you have chosen NOT to be born?

I ask it as a philosophical inquiry, an exercise in existential self-examination.

Sort of like a DIY colonoscopy.

If I say that i am frank stanton, can I vote no.

How do you know you even exist now? Descartes?

I posted the following on DT:

While walking my dog this evening I looked up and saw an amazingly clear sky - it is both awe-inspiring and sad to realize that I will never get to learn, let alone see, what is out there in our galaxy or any of the trillions of other galaxies - and I am dumbfounded when I realize our entire universe is expanding - but what is it expanding into? What is there - out there? I think if I had one wish it would be to be able to travel instantaneously and learn what is in the universe and what is beyond the universe...just to know something we think of as infinite is indeed finite and expanding into something else. MIND = BLOWN!!!

seems apropos

I dunno... "I picked the wrong parents" should have been one of the choices.

During my post aceofspades posted. Furthering his remarks...
What is even more mind-boggling are
1.) According to theory, the Universe is expanding at or very close to the speed of light.
2.) There are these dark patches that no one really knows what they are made of... so called dark matter/energy.
3.) My own idea that beyond the light-boundry (event-horizon) of a black-hole is energy (probably only gravitational energy): no mass. Part of this idea is that the black-hole might not be able to contain it all, thus the impetus for #2.

Quote: MrV

I ask it as a philosophical inquiry, an exercise in existential self-examination.

Sort of like a DIY colonoscopy.

Flipping thru the threads and came across this one. It's an interesting question for me, one that hits close to home. I didn't vote on the question, but the son I lost two years ago would have voted not to have been born. My son, Kevin, was 23 years old when he passed. He was a Junior at Old Dominion University in Virginia. He was born with a very rare genetic disease called Draves Syndrome. The name for it comes from his mother's (her maiden name is Draves) side of the family. In short, it's a genetic affliction that leaves the individual subject to not only nerve damage and loss of motor skills, but also excruciating pain. All it takes is some sort of trauma to the extremeties of the body, either arms or legs. In Kevin's case, he suffered trauma to his arms at the age of 5. To this day, I remember the incident exactly as it happened. We were at Busch Gardens near Wiliamsburg, VA, and Kevin was crawling out of a pit when an assistant lifted him up by his arms to take him out. Kevin let out a little yelp and started crying. He kept crying for the rest of that day. I held him for much of the remainder of the day, trying to comfort him as best I could. From that day on, though, the pain stayed with him. He would often cry himself to sleep at night. He finally got used to it, a little. We took him to doctors, hoping that there was something they could do for his pain. They would prescribe juvenile pain medications, which helped a bit. But the pain never went away fully. Some days were better than others. But it was always there.

The only remedy for Kevin's pain was prescription narcotics, which he started getting when he was in his teens. In addition to the pain, Kevin lost full use of the fingers in both hands, something about which he was very self-conscious. His hands drooped at an odd angle, and he also lost feeling in the tips of his fingers. This made it difficult for him to hold things properly, such as pens or pencils. It was also difficult for him to tie his shoes. The remedy to that was lots of sandals, slippers and velcro-laced shoes. Kevin's left arm and hand were more affected than his right. Navy neurologists operated on him and replaced the damaged nerve in his left arm, using part of a nerve from his right arm. Unfortunately, the procedure didn't work. Now, both of his arms were equally affected. Kevin knew going in that the chances of success were slim, but he elected to do it anyway. He later told me that he regretted having the operation, however, because now his right arm was just as bad as his left, and the operation did nothing to lessen the pain.

Because of the constant pain and the embarrassment caused by inability to use his hands normally, Kevin became depressed. He was evaluated as having clincal depression and was prescribed medications. As to be expected, he got addicted to his medications. Kevin was not always able to get his refills when he needed them. So he turned to his "friends" who were all too eager to supply him with alcohol or misappropriated prescription medications and other crap (marijuana, etc.). As if that were not enough, Kevin also became an alcoholic. We got him into a number of treatment programs (AA and a Navy program), but none of it proved effective.

Despite all of this, Kevin had a tremendous sense of humor. His off-the-cuff jokes and quick wit always made everyone laugh. He was a great person to have around. He was resolved to overcome the pain and his physical handicap. As I said, he was a Junior at ODU, where he was majoring in biology with a minor in archaeology. His grades were good: usually A or B. Following graduation, Kevin hoped to work for the Federal government in the Department of the Interior. He loved the outdoors and wanted to be a Park Ranger. He got worn down a few times and would take a break from school. I guess we all would. But he always recovered and pushed on.

Then one day, the inevitable happened. Kevin passed away in his off-campus apartment a few days into the New Year 2011. He was found on both knees with his head turned sideways on the floor in his bedroom, as if he were looking for something under his bed. By all appearances, it seemed as if he had passed away peacefully. The coroner was unable to fix a date and time of death, and so put his death as occuring on the day and time that his body was found. His mother, brothers and I were able to determine that he probably actually passed on a Wednesday, based on the record of his phone calls, social media postings and plans he had for Thursday, which were broken. So, he lay on the floor from Wednesday until Saturday before one of his neighbors checked to see if anything was wrong. While Kevin lay there, someone (his mother and I suspect one of his "good friends") stole his safe, which contained his meds, money and valuables (id, passport, birth certificate, etc.) from his bedroom. They also stole his bicycle, which he kept chained up outside the apartment. Real lovely human being that did that. I can't imagine anyone being so callous and indifferent as to walk over his body and take his safe. They didn't even call 911. The person also took Kevin's cell phone; they could have used that to call 911 in order to avoid being traced. His mother and I are pretty sure we know who did it, but there's no proof. Police investigated, but came up empty.

I only describe all of this, because Kevin told me on more than one occasion that he wished he had never been born. I had never considered that seriously myself, although it was something I said quite frequently as a young child when I was having a temper tantrum and angry with my parents for some silly reason. Like most children, I never meant it. Sadly, Kevin did mean it. I can easily understand why.

I'm not seeking sympathy. I'm simply trying to illustrate that there are probably quite a few people out in this world who feel like Kevin felt: they wished they had never been born. Before, I could never imagine believing anyone saying it and meaning it, but I do now.

Quote: MrV

Sort of like a DIY colonoscopy.

That could still be another thread.

For instance, if I could choose right now, right this moment, to never have been born, I assume consciousness and memory would simply cease to exist. Somewhat like a really fast general anesthetic (if you've ever had surgery).

The moment afterwards of doing so, there would be no way to grieve or miss anything as there would be nothing to remember.

So, it's more a matter, do I leave anybody worrying or wondering about me, or is that taken care of in that I never existed so can't leave anyone wondering about me just by default. I don't have any particular reason to want to go into non-existence, so I wouldn't bother.

Quote: Pabo

Flipping thru the threads and came across this one. It's an interesting question for me, one that hits close to home. I didn't vote on the question, but the son I lost two years ago would have voted not to have been born. My son, Kevin, was 23 years old when he passed. He was a Junior at Old Dominion University in Virginia. He was born with a very rare genetic disease called Draves Syndrome. The name for it comes from his mother's (her maiden name is Draves) side of the family. In short, it's a genetic affliction that leaves the individual subject to not only nerve damage and loss of motor skills, but also excruciating pain. All it takes is some sort of trauma to the extremeties of the body, either arms or legs. In Kevin's case, he suffered trauma to his arms at the age of 5. To this day, I remember the incident exactly as it happened. We were at Busch Gardens near Wiliamsburg, VA, and Kevin was crawling out of a pit when an assistant lifted him up by his arms to take him out. Kevin let out a little yelp and started crying. He kept crying for the rest of that day. I held him for much of the remainder of the day, trying to comfort him as best I could. From that day on, though, the pain stayed with him. He would often cry himself to sleep at night. He finally got used to it, a little. We took him to doctors, hoping that there was something they could do for his pain. They would prescribe juvenile pain medications, which helped a bit. But the pain never went away fully. Some days were better than others. But it was always there.

The only remedy for Kevin's pain was prescription narcotics, which he started getting when he was in his teens. In addition to the pain, Kevin lost full use of the fingers in both hands, something about which he was very self-conscious. His hands drooped at an odd angle, and he also lost feeling in the tips of his fingers. This made it difficult for him to hold things properly, such as pens or pencils. It was also difficult for him to tie his shoes. The remedy to that was lots of sandals, slippers and velcro-laced shoes. Kevin's left arm and hand were more affected than his right. Navy neurologists operated on him and replaced the damaged nerve in his left arm, using part of a nerve from his right arm. Unfortunately, the procedure didn't work. Now, both of his arms were equally affected. Kevin knew going in that the chances of success were slim, but he elected to do it anyway. He later told me that he regretted having the operation, however, because now his right arm was just as bad as his left, and the operation did nothing to lessen the pain.

Because of the constant pain and the embarrassment caused by inability to use his hands normally, Kevin became depressed. He was evaluated as having clincal depression and was prescribed medications. As to be expected, he got addicted to his medications. Kevin was not always able to get his refills when he needed them. So he turned to his "friends" who were all too eager to supply him with alcohol or misappropriated prescription medications and other crap (marijuana, etc.). As if that were not enough, Kevin also became an alcoholic. We got him into a number of treatment programs (AA and a Navy program), but none of it proved effective.

Despite all of this, Kevin had a tremendous sense of humor. His off-the-cuff jokes and quick wit always made everyone laugh. He was a great person to have around. He was resolved to overcome the pain and his physical handicap. As I said, he was a Junior at ODU, where he was majoring in biology with a minor in archaeology. His grades were good: usually A or B. Following graduation, Kevin hoped to work for the Federal government in the Department of the Interior. He loved the outdoors and wanted to be a Park Ranger. He got worn down a few times and would take a break from school. I guess we all would. But he always recovered and pushed on.

Then one day, the inevitable happened. Kevin passed away in his off-campus apartment a few days into the New Year 2011. He was found on both knees with his head turned sideways on the floor in his bedroom, as if he were looking for something under his bed. By all appearances, it seemed as if he had passed away peacefully. The coroner was unable to fix a date and time of death, and so put his death as occuring on the day and time that his body was found. His mother, brothers and I were able to determine that he probably actually passed on a Wednesday, based on the record of his phone calls, social media postings and plans he had for Thursday, which were broken. So, he lay on the floor from Wednesday until Saturday before one of his neighbors checked to see if anything was wrong. While Kevin lay there, someone (his mother and I suspect one of his "good friends") stole his safe, which contained his meds, money and valuables (id, passport, birth certificate, etc.) from his bedroom. They also stole his bicycle, which he kept chained up outside the apartment. Real lovely human being that did that. I can't imagine anyone being so callous and indifferent as to walk over his body and take his safe. They didn't even call 911. The person also took Kevin's cell phone; they could have used that to call 911 in order to avoid being traced. His mother and I are pretty sure we know who did it, but there's no proof. Police investigated, but came up empty.

I only describe all of this, because Kevin told me on more than one occasion that he wished he had never been born. I had never considered that seriously myself, although it was something I said quite frequently as a young child when I was having a temper tantrum and angry with my parents for some silly reason. Like most children, I never meant it. Sadly, Kevin did mean it. I can easily understand why.

I'm not seeking sympathy. I'm simply trying to illustrate that there are probably quite a few people out in this world who feel like Kevin felt: they wished they had never been born. Before, I could never imagine believing anyone saying it and meaning it, but I do now.

Though you were not seeking sympathy, you have mine - your son's story moved me

Ace: Thanks, brother. I appreciate it. All part of life. We all pass on sooner or later. Still, it's tough for a parent to lose a child. A unique experience, indeed.

delete

Quote: Pabo

Flipping thru the threads and came across this one...

I was moved by your story as well. Your son sounds like he was a great guy who was fun to be around, despite all the pain he had to deal with. And it's scary how a seemingly innocent action could trigger such a terrible disease.

God bless the both of you.

Quote: Beethoven9th

I was moved by your story as well. Your son sounds like he was a great guy who was fun to be around, despite all the pain he had to deal with. And it's scary how a seemingly innocent action could trigger such a terrible disease.

God bless the both of you.

Pabo,

Your son endured a long, difficult road. I also am moved by his story, and the heartache your whole family must have felt in living it with him. My condolences.

Several states allow assisted suicide, or "Death with Dignity."

Basically, if a doctor confirms you have six months or less to live, he can prescribe a medication that you swallow to induce death.

I sometimes think it should be expanded to include those who, while not necessarily diagnosed as dying within six months, are otherwise in such intractable misery so as not to want to live anymore.

It takes courage to pull your own plug, and is an intensely individual choice.

Who other than the individual can determine whether or not the circumstances of their life are endurable?

We are a Free People: we have the inalienable right to Pursue Happiness; if that goal is demonstrably impossible, should we all not have the inalienable right to terminate our existence?

Thorny question.

Pabo. I certainly didn't expected to read such a story, in a blackjack forum of all places, that would move me to tears. Faith his something that cannot be purchased - only developed by living life and often confirmed through lifes tradgedies. Kevin was God's blessing to you and your wife. And I'm sure if you talked to Kevin today he would say his life was a blessing because he got to spend 23 years with 2 of the greatest people on earth.
Your qoute "Despite all of this, Kevin had a tremendous sense of humor. His off-the-cuff jokes and quick wit always made everyone laugh. He was a great person to have around." speaks to the love you gave to him...and he passed on to others. But God brought Kevin home so he wouldn't be in pain anymore...he's probably delivered a couple of zingers in Heaven that made Him laugh. Kevin his looking down from above today and so very proud of you in so many ways. But having the courage to give your testament and tell Kevin's story...answers the original posted question.

A young man came into my office a few years ago.

I'd known of his existence since he was a child: I'd represented his father in an action which involved him.

I'd heard some years later that the father suicided.

The young man told me: "Everybody says I'm going to kill myself like my father did, but they're wrong. I won't."

Well yes, in fact, he did.

Like father, like son?

Quote: Beethoven9th

I was moved by your story as well. Your son sounds like he was a great guy who was fun to be around, despite all the pain he had to deal with. And it's scary how a seemingly innocent action could trigger such a terrible disease.

God bless the both of you.

"He was born with a very rare genetic disease called Draves Syndrome". It must be very rare indeed. I looked it up in order to educate myself and found nothing.

Thank you for sharing that touching experience, Pabo.

Quote: MrV

A young man came into my office a few years ago.

I'd known of his existence since he was a child: I'd represented his father in an action which involved him.

I'd heard some years later that the father suicided.

The young man told me: "Everybody says I'm going to kill myself like my father did, but they're wrong. I won't."

Well yes, in fact, he did.

Like father, like son?

Two friends lately self terminated. And I suspect a third.

One with a gun, the other used the assisted suicide program in Oregon.

It's incredible the amount of pain he was expected to go through in order to get help.

I wondered for years how people could have failed attempts.

Some argue that a person ready to leave is overly depressed, sometimes I think it's just a rational decision, personal choice.

I wasn't aware there were other states besides Oregon? Guess I could have googled it.

Still hard to fathom that they put Kevorkian in prison. Some people have just suffered enough and should be allowed death with dignity.

For most of us, no matter the problem there are a number of people who are worse off who choose to go on living. Maybe you live most of your life like Stephen Hawking, and I assume Hawking is not in constant or severe pain which might have changed his mind about hanging around.

But the arguments you consider are for you to judge as acceptable. Some people lose everything they own and kill themselves. Some kill themselves over a lost relationships (and sometimes they take a whole bunch of people with them;those ones are freakin' losers even in death as far as I'm concerned).

My general rationale is I'm going to die eventually anyway. Most crap is too temporary to kill myself over, and things usually get better. So, I'm not going to hurry it along -- and the grim reaper will show up whether I'm ready or not anyway.

...also I remember hearing Dentists being one of the top professions for suicide. I always wondered if it's because they talk to so many people who don't talk to them.

Dentist "How you doing?"
Patient "Mmmmmph?"

Quote: KeyserSoze

delete

???? Please explain.

Rather than being born, I would have like to have been
discovered. Like a rare element, or a winner on Star
Search. Just appear out of nowhere.

A rare element? Like finding elephant dung in a subway car?

Quote: rxwine

A rare element? Like finding elephant dung in a subway car?

That's not an element.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

I don't think that there are many people with whom I've come into contact that would have suffered as a result of me not being born. While I've talked with Presidents , Congressmen and Senators, along with most of the media outlets, I don't recall saying anything of Universal Importance that would have shifted policy. The very closest would be the 3 strikes and you're out policy. As at that time I had 2 strikes against me. I still have 2 strikes against me, but I am headed towards having the convictions vacated.

Still, I enjoy live too much to not be a part of it.

Funny how suicide is denoted as being a criminal offense.

How do you convict and then punish a corpse?

I've not heard of anyone being charged with attempted suicide after botching an attempt to blow their brains out.

But hey, "if the job is worth doing, it is worth doing well."

Few things are as embarrassing as being the survivor (or immediate family member) of a botched gunshot to the head.

I had an extremely awkward Christmas dinner once with a family whose paterfamilias had previously tried and failed to blow his brains out.

Ugly.

Quote: MrV

Funny how suicide is denoted as being a criminal offense.

How do you convict and then punish a corpse?

I've not heard of anyone being charged with attempted suicide after botching an attempt to blow their brains out.

But hey, "if the job is worth doing, it is worth doing well."

Ugly.

How do they convict and punish a corpse? Yeah, what do they do give "em life?

No idea who came up with the idea to make it illegal, probably some religious tenant? Maybe some insurance company? I think most life policies won't pay on self termination but they wouldn't want to pay the med bills on a botched attempt?

Hell, it looks like maybe even the pope is coming out.

Lot of people who thought about it realize all attempts aren't successful, a gun is no guarantee and either way makes a hell of a mess.

Quote: petroglyph

I think most life policies won't pay on self termination

An exception: I know of a widow who collected the $100K benefit when her husband, who was on active duty in the US Army, killed himself.

Whether they still pay on a suicide is unknown.

Quote: 1BB

"He was born with a very rare genetic disease called Draves Syndrome". It must be very rare indeed. I looked it up in order to educate myself and found nothing.

Thank you for sharing that touching experience, Pabo.

Yes, it's rare. I've also searched the interent over the years to try and find more on it. Nothing there, though. Not much interest in researching the condition because it's so rare. In fact, there's only been one neurologist that I'm aware of that did any extensive research into it. I used to have his card, because I was supposed to contact him so that he could run tests on me and obtain blood, DNA, etc. for research. I never did contact him, though. Most of the Draves family and descendents affected by it are located in the North, mainly New York state.

My oldest son had a bout with it when he was a child. His arms hurt like Kevin's, but he was not afflicted to the degree that Kevin was. One of the neurologists that was treating my eldest suggested electric shock therapy on his arms. it was done about twice a week at the doctor's office. It worked very well for him. He no longer has any pain and has normal use of his fingers and hands. We tried it with Kevin, but it didn't work. His condition was too severe, apparently. My youngest son is about to leave the Army; he never had any symptoms. Perfectly normal. The boys' mother suffered from it, but she hid it from the Army. She was a career Army officer and kept the condition to herself. it bothered her off and on over the years, but did not affect her ability to serve in the military.

There are a lot of people in this world that face significant challenges that those of us who are otherwise physically and mentally fit don't have to contend with. They are able to muster great courage and determination to make the best of their situation. Case in point is Martha Mason. She's 70 years old and has spent the past 61 years of her life in an iron lung. She even earned a PhD. Here's the link if anyone is interested:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd8_1380914399

I truly admire people like this.

So Do I. But I won't click on the link. Guess I am a coward after all.

Quote: Buzzard

So Do I. But I won't click on the link. Guess I am a coward after all.

Naw, Buzzard, you're not a coward. It took me a few days before I clicked on it. She's surprisingly positive and upbeat about her situation. Not a trace of bitterness or regret or anything negative towards her life. She just accepted what happened and adjusted to it. I'm not sure many people--including I--would be as accepting, though.

Incredible woman. I would have loved to meet her. (Looks like she passed away 4 years ago—a few weeks shy of her 72nd birthday.) Stories like that really put things in perspective.

Quote: Pabo

Naw, Buzzard, you're not a coward. It took me a few days before I clicked on it. She's surprisingly positive and upbeat about her situation. Not a trace of bitterness or regret or anything negative towards her life. She just accepted what happened and adjusted to it. I'm not sure many people--including I--would be as accepting, though.

I do not even google the name of childhood friends. Too many obituaries pop up. I am 73 and starting to believe only the good die young. I don't handle death very well. My daughter Susann has such a bad case of pneumonia about 10 years ago that she had to be
put in a coma and on a ventilator. I was working 4-12 Mid and would try and sleep in hospital chair next to her bed. Susann said she knew it was me, because my hands were so warm. She survived, but there are no atheists in foxholes. I cut a deal with God. He did not take my daughter and I would not burn down his churches. Never told anybody that before, not even Josie.

Tomorrow is Sunday . I usually watch Meet the Press and new shows. But I switch the channel when they start to roll down the names and/or pictures of all those brave young men who died the prior week defending us.

I wouldn't have elected not to be born, but my father would've preferred it, since I killed his wife with my birth, leaving him with two toddlers and me, a newborn. He proved throughout my life he is NOT father material.

Sorry to read that Zippy. Unfortunately, Dads only come one to a customer.

But he did stick around, I assume. Not that he gets extra credit for that. But losing a wife can have devastating effects.

My son-in-law Ralph lost 2 wives to ovarian cancer. He was an alcoholic for the next 5 years till he met Melanie.

Not a drop since he met her, and they now have 2 lovely daughters.

Hope you can forgive your Dad before he leaves this veil of tears.

Quote: Buzzard

I do not even google the name of childhood friends. Too many obituaries pop up. I am 73 and starting to believe only the good die young. I don't handle death very well. My daughter Susann has such a bad case of pneumonia about 10 years ago that she had to be
put in a coma and on a ventilator. I was working 4-12 Mid and would try and sleep in hospital chair next to her bed. Susann said she knew it was me, because my hands were so warm. She survived, but there are no atheists in foxholes. I cut a deal with God. He did not take my daughter and I would not burn down his churches. Never told anybody that before, not even Josie.

Tomorrow is Sunday . I usually watch Meet the Press and new shows. But I switch the channel when they start to roll down the names and/or pictures of all those brave young men who died the prior week defending us.

You've got me by 11 years, Buzz. Amazing how time flies. It doesn't seem that long ago that I was a smart-assed high school graduate thinking I had life all figured out. Didn't take long for me to learn otherwise.

Glad to hear that your daughter recovered. As for my son Kevin, I tried to strick a deal with God. Asked him repeatedly to release Kevin from his pain and give it to me so that Kevin could live a normal life. Guess that was too much to ask of God.

Quote: zippyboy

I wouldn't have elected not to be born, but my father would've preferred it, since I killed his wife with my birth, leaving him with two toddlers and me, a newborn. He proved throughout my life he is NOT father material.

I'm so sorry to hear that, zippy. Sadly, there are too many folks in this world not suitable to be a father or mother.

Quote: Buzzard

there are no atheists in foxholes.

I guess you go with the god you know as people disagree on the true god or gods. Otherwise there would only be one religion.

If life is a corridor, is death just another door?

(and I stole that from the old Kung Fu show with David Carridine)

Quote: Buzzard

I do not even google the name of childhood friends. Too many obituaries pop up. I am 73 and starting to believe only the good die young. I don't handle death very well. My daughter Susann has such a bad case of pneumonia about 10 years ago that she had to be
put in a coma and on a ventilator. I was working 4-12 Mid and would try and sleep in hospital chair next to her bed. Susann said she knew it was me, because my hands were so warm. She survived, but there are no atheists in foxholes. I cut a deal with God. He did not take my daughter and I would not burn down his churches. Never told anybody that before, not even Josie.

Tomorrow is Sunday . I usually watch Meet the Press and new shows. But I switch the channel when they start to roll down the names and/or pictures of all those brave young men who died the prior week defending us.

Buzz,

You and I don't often disagree, but I MAKE myself stop and notice the names of those who died for us, often not just men, either. I think they deserve no less, and so much more. However, I'm quite sure you honor them in your own way, feeling the pain of those left behind for them.

I think you and God made a good pact, and you are living proof of a decent soul walking the earth, shouldering his burdens with grace and good humor, loving those close to you more than you love yourself. I treasure knowing you.

Quote: rxwine

(and I stole that from the old Kung Fu show with David Carridine)

That show had so much potential, but it ended up sucking big time. Great premise, but terrible casting. That was Bruce Lee's show, and he should have been cast as the lead. I mean, David Carradine???? *facepalm*

Quote: Pabo

As for my son Kevin, I tried to strick a deal with God. Asked him repeatedly to release Kevin from his pain and give it to me so that Kevin could live a normal life. Guess that was too much to ask of God.

Pabo: Quite honestly, I don't know what to say. We have what we think and what we know - the rest is a struggle between the two. I "think" you are an amazing person and your strength to endure is by touching so many lives. Like the two I "know" you touched today. As I said in an earlier post, I didn't quite expect to reading a story such as your in a blackjack forum. If irritates my girlfriend a bit that I spend so much time on this "hobby". She's had her share of battles and continues to beat cancer. I "think" the reason she has overcome some insurmountable odds is because she is such a joy to others and the way she sacrifices to make people happy. This morning, she saw a rare side of me as I sat at my computer sobbing. She'd just had surgery yesterday and is recovering at my house. I tried to read to her your story but I was having difficulty due to the lump in my throat. Finally, we both just sat there and had a good old fashion cry. I read your posts and admire your strength to reach out to others. I guess the thing that I see most is your son gave and his story continues to people he didn't even know. I'm not saying she was having a "why me" moment but certainly wouldn't have blamed her if she was...just wanted you to know your story touched a very sick lady very deeply.

Quote: moses

Pabo: Quite honestly, I don't know what to say. We have what we think and what we know - the rest is a struggle between the two. I "think" you are an amazing person and your strength to endure is by touching so many lives. Like the two I "know" you touched today. As I said in an earlier post, I didn't quite expect to reading a story such as your in a blackjack forum. If irritates my girlfriend a bit that I spend so much time on this "hobby". She's had her share of battles and continues to beat cancer. I "think" the reason she has overcome some insurmountable odds is because she is such a joy to others and the way she sacrifices to make people happy. This morning, she saw a rare side of me as I sat at my computer sobbing. She'd just had surgery yesterday and is recovering at my house. I tried to read to her your story but I was having difficulty due to the lump in my throat. Finally, we both just sat there and had a good old fashion cry. I read your posts and admire your strength to reach out to others. I guess the thing that I see most is your son gave and his story continues to people he didn't even know. I'm not saying she was having a "why me" moment but certainly wouldn't have blamed her if she was...just wanted you to know your story touched a very sick lady very deeply.

Thank you so much, moses. I sincerely appreciate the kind words from you and others on this thread. Like I said, I really wasn't looking for sympathy when I wrote about Kevin. I was simply trying to respond to what was an unusual coincidence to come across a thread like this one that I could relate to in such a personal way. If not for Kevin, I probably would have glanced at it without comment. But it just seemed to me to be an opportunity to mention something that others might be able to identify with.

It took a long time for Kevin's mother, his brothers, me, and other family members and friends to accept what happened to him. Kevin was really a decent and good hearted young man. He never caused trouble for anyone but himself. He only got into trouble because of his efforts to try and deal with his pain. He got picked up by the police with marijuana several times and got into trouble whenever he drank. Even though his mother and I would get angry with him, we knew he was simply trying to cope. He wasn't a mean sort. Always tried to help others. He was very outgoing and willing to do a favor for anyone who asked. Folks often took advantage of him or made fun of him because of his condition. One of the qualities that Kevin exhibited was the ability to forgive and forget the transgressions of others. He almost never raised his voice in anger. He was very patient and kind with others. I've tried to emulate those qualities. I have to admit, though, that I more often fail than succeed.

As I mentioned earlier, Kevin had a wonderful wit. He could crack a joke at the drop of a hat or make some funny observation about an everyday event that would leave us in stitches. He and I often talked about his becoming a standup comedian if his goal of becoming a park ranger didn't work out.

I have to admit that this excercise was also a bit cathartic for me, too. throughout the years, I had heard and read about parents losing their children at a fairly young age. I had never imagined how painful that experience could be. I do now. It's something no parent should ever have to deal with, yet many do every day. That's just the way life is.

Anway, this is the last entry I'll make about Kevin. Again, thank you everyone for your kind words.

One last thing: Moses, I wish the best for your girlfriend in her battle with the big C. I'll say a prayer for her.

Quote: Pabo

He wasn't a mean sort. Always tried to help others. He was very outgoing and willing to do a favor for anyone who asked. Folks often took advantage of him or made fun of him because of his condition. One of the qualities that Kevin exhibited was the ability to forgive and forget the transgressions of others. He almost never raised his voice in anger. He was very patient and kind with others. I've tried to emulate those qualities. I have to admit, though, that I more often fail than succeed.

As I mentioned earlier, Kevin had a wonderful wit. He could crack a joke at the drop of a hat or make some funny observation about an everyday event that would leave us in stitches. He and I often talked about his becoming a standup comedian if his goal of becoming a park ranger didn't work out.

One last thing: Moses, I wish the best for your girlfriend in her battle with the big C. I'll say a prayer for her.

There have been a few times in my life when I just knew I was in the presence of God. I lost my sister then mom to cancer in June 2012. Being with them at Hospice was certainly the best recent example. That's how a person grows in faith. Sometimes HE gives me words or talents that I didn't even know I had "in" me. Your story, was a bit ironic in that we share the same first name, all my kids names start with a K as well as my ex and lady-friend. Forgive and forget the transgressions of others is truly the most difficult thing to do but also the most rewarding. I too try to set the bar at your son's standards but admit I fall short all too often.

I just "know" your son Kevin is in a far better place today. I'd like to "think" he will be doing a standup routine for my Dad, mom and sister's soon. Pabo, take with you the comfort of knowing you are doing the right things and you "will" be with Kev again. Kevin and God are very proud of you. Thank you for your prayer and we will be praying for your family as well. God Bless you.