The next big rip off in gambling
September 20th, 2013 at 12:27:11 AM
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So I was reading Ken Uston's book and found that he was talking about single deck games offered throughout the strip. There was talk about a single deck game at Caesers' with great rules which made the house edge effectively 0 with basic strategy. I haven't been around gambling very long and found things are always getting worse and worse throughout the years.
In BJ, single deck games dealt to the last hand became 6 deck shoes, along with 6:5 payoffs on single deck.
In Video Poker, 100%+ games with full comps and cashback, along with great progressives and meter rises became short pay machines, unless you play at high denominations for "full pay" which means you're still giving up anywhere from half a percent to 1%. Most of the good machines have a disclaimer saying they are ineligible for promotions or multipliers.
What do you think is the next big "rip off" is? Even money blackjack? Full pay machines with short pay royals (I've seen this in some places, not cool)? No players club bonuses for video poker machines? Triple 0's in roulette?
In BJ, single deck games dealt to the last hand became 6 deck shoes, along with 6:5 payoffs on single deck.
In Video Poker, 100%+ games with full comps and cashback, along with great progressives and meter rises became short pay machines, unless you play at high denominations for "full pay" which means you're still giving up anywhere from half a percent to 1%. Most of the good machines have a disclaimer saying they are ineligible for promotions or multipliers.
What do you think is the next big "rip off" is? Even money blackjack? Full pay machines with short pay royals (I've seen this in some places, not cool)? No players club bonuses for video poker machines? Triple 0's in roulette?
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
September 20th, 2013 at 1:52:51 AM
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What's a change they could make that most people wouldn't care about?
I would have never expected the public to accept double zero roulette or 6:5 blackjack... so maybe I'm not the best judge here. With that said, I could see free odds in craps getting the axe to 2x, even money "blackjack", and comps getting a further cutback. It's hard to imagine how much more Caesar's could cut them back, but it seems to be old faithful in the couple of years I've been into this hobby.
I would have never expected the public to accept double zero roulette or 6:5 blackjack... so maybe I'm not the best judge here. With that said, I could see free odds in craps getting the axe to 2x, even money "blackjack", and comps getting a further cutback. It's hard to imagine how much more Caesar's could cut them back, but it seems to be old faithful in the couple of years I've been into this hobby.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
September 20th, 2013 at 3:31:14 AM
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I don't think it will affect free-odds because players are too aware and will take their business elsewhere. BJ players just see 6:5 and figure 6>3 so something must be good, if they even know at all, which most new players I can assure you do not. But craps free odds players eat and sleep odds for the most part. I could see it being something else at craps, though. Taking one or both doubles off the Field Bet? Or the big one, changing the props from "to" to "for" in the payouts. Though this makes payouts harder and makes it less likely a bet stays up, it boosts the edge.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 20th, 2013 at 5:20:09 AM
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Some would argue that paying taxes is a rip off so I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. No one is forced to enter a casino and gamble.
Admission fees and antes at blackjack are already accepted by the gambling public and casinos will do whatever else they can get away with to increase profits.
Admission fees and antes at blackjack are already accepted by the gambling public and casinos will do whatever else they can get away with to increase profits.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
September 20th, 2013 at 8:02:32 AM
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Maybe the casinos will set a minimum amount of chips that the cashier will exchange for cash, thus forcing some punters to gamble the smaller amounts of winnings that they intended to cash in.
You could easily get round this by buying more chips than you intend to play thus always having at least the minimum required. The casinos wouldn't care about this as once you have the chips they are more likely to be gambled than cash.
You could easily get round this by buying more chips than you intend to play thus always having at least the minimum required. The casinos wouldn't care about this as once you have the chips they are more likely to be gambled than cash.
A photon without any luggage checks into a hotel, he's travelling light.
September 20th, 2013 at 8:10:09 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2013 at 10:13:03 AM
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There are a great many trends that seem to be unwelcome:
Mandatory driver license display/linking with players club card to enter a casino.
Minimum bet fee at BJ.
No photography as in not even our main entrance much less an exuberant slot winner's jackpot.
Party Pit BJ payouts.
Much of this stuff has been imposed by MBAs and other whiz kids who never learned the mob rule about letting the sucker win from time. Will it get worse? Probably.
Mandatory driver license display/linking with players club card to enter a casino.
Minimum bet fee at BJ.
No photography as in not even our main entrance much less an exuberant slot winner's jackpot.
Party Pit BJ payouts.
Much of this stuff has been imposed by MBAs and other whiz kids who never learned the mob rule about letting the sucker win from time. Will it get worse? Probably.
September 20th, 2013 at 10:56:29 AM
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Just my opinion, but I think that comps are reduced not only cutting the comp %, but also by raising the prices of things that are redeemable for comps. Without crunching the numbers, it seems like buffet prices, for example, have increased substantially more than food inflation. Hence, when a player gets a comp buffet, it may seem like $45, but in reality that $45 has been inflated to make the comps seem more valuable.
It would seem wise for casinos to improve margins in the most hidden ways possible, but then what would explain 6:5 BJ?
It would seem wise for casinos to improve margins in the most hidden ways possible, but then what would explain 6:5 BJ?
September 20th, 2013 at 11:10:34 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks that wanting to have greater than a 0.5% house edge on a game doesn't mean a casino is out to 'rip off' the customer?
The market on both ends have pretty much stabilized on what a reasonable house edge, and traditional blackjack and craps don't measure up.
In most every case, a customer who gets horrible service by a grumpy dealer playing a great single deck game is going to feel far more 'ripped off' than someone who plays a single deck game and has a blast. For those who just want the good gamble, it's not hard to find 99.5%+ gambling, we know where to look.
The far, far greater 'rip off' has been described here: the insane escalation of food prices, especially buffet prices. Vegas used to be about cheap, loss-leading eats to get you back into the action.
The market on both ends have pretty much stabilized on what a reasonable house edge, and traditional blackjack and craps don't measure up.
In most every case, a customer who gets horrible service by a grumpy dealer playing a great single deck game is going to feel far more 'ripped off' than someone who plays a single deck game and has a blast. For those who just want the good gamble, it's not hard to find 99.5%+ gambling, we know where to look.
The far, far greater 'rip off' has been described here: the insane escalation of food prices, especially buffet prices. Vegas used to be about cheap, loss-leading eats to get you back into the action.
September 20th, 2013 at 11:20:14 AM
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Quote: CRMousseauAm I the only one who thinks that wanting to have greater than a 0.5% house edge on a game doesn't mean a casino is out to 'rip off' the customer?
The market on both ends have pretty much stabilized on what a reasonable house edge, and traditional blackjack and craps don't measure up.
In most every case, a customer who gets horrible service by a grumpy dealer playing a great single deck game is going to feel far more 'ripped off' than someone who plays a single deck game and has a blast. For those who just want the good gamble, it's not hard to find 99.5%+ gambling, we know where to look.
The far, far greater 'rip off' has been described here: the insane escalation of food prices, especially buffet prices. Vegas used to be about cheap, loss-leading eats to get you back into the action.
+1. No, you're not the only one.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 20th, 2013 at 11:31:39 AM
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Quote: CRMousseauAm I the only one who thinks that wanting to have greater than a 0.5% house edge on a game doesn't mean a casino is out to 'rip off' the customer?
.
What's the difference if it's 1% or 20%, the doofus
public doesn't know the difference. Look at the
people playing the Big Six wheel, do you think they
know or care?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 20th, 2013 at 11:34:48 AM
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+2
I believe customers make the free choice to go the casino, and as long as the Rules are clearly available and the HE can become known, then the casino can offer Even Money, No-Double, No-Split, No Surrender, Hit Soft 17, 8-Deck game dealt from a CSM, for all I care. I'm not playing it, but if someone does, that's his/her lookout.
I believe customers make the free choice to go the casino, and as long as the Rules are clearly available and the HE can become known, then the casino can offer Even Money, No-Double, No-Split, No Surrender, Hit Soft 17, 8-Deck game dealt from a CSM, for all I care. I'm not playing it, but if someone does, that's his/her lookout.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 20th, 2013 at 11:38:31 AM
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Quote: Mission146for all I care. I'm not playing it, but if someone does, that's his/her lookout.
Exactly. Never wise up a chump, they really don't like it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 20th, 2013 at 11:40:42 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2013 at 12:09:49 PM
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There's a thing called Reservation Blackjack where you can pay 20 bucks to reserve a seat at a table. Every 60 minutes you have to repay your reservation fee. I tried it once hoping to reduce the number of players entering and exiting the game. It didn't really prevent anything and I saw no benefits. I read the thread on it here and most are saying it's to ensure a seat and the right to play at a 5 dollar minimum.
While not a rip-off so to speak, it's just another way the casino can pick apart people's paychecks before they've even made a bet.
I'll also include blackjack commissions. Player's pay a commission on every winning hand except a blackjack or 21.
While not a rip-off so to speak, it's just another way the casino can pick apart people's paychecks before they've even made a bet.
I'll also include blackjack commissions. Player's pay a commission on every winning hand except a blackjack or 21.
Buffering...
September 20th, 2013 at 12:16:04 PM
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I recently visited Maryland Live. Luckily the Buffet closed at 10:30 and we were 15 minutes too late. $34.95 WTF
How can a casino pay a dealer his salary and benefits, medical, vacations etc. dealing a full price, single deck BJ game?
Colorado could not do this with a $5 min/max bet. And square footage is a hell of a lot cheaper in Blackhawk than Vegas.
And Full comps on 9/6 BJ ? CRY BABIES !
How can a casino pay a dealer his salary and benefits, medical, vacations etc. dealing a full price, single deck BJ game?
Colorado could not do this with a $5 min/max bet. And square footage is a hell of a lot cheaper in Blackhawk than Vegas.
And Full comps on 9/6 BJ ? CRY BABIES !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
September 20th, 2013 at 1:10:06 PM
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Gambling is already a rip-off to 99% of the population.
It's just another form of "entertainment"
It's just another form of "entertainment"
"I am your average American gambling idiot" - Me
September 20th, 2013 at 1:58:38 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2013 at 2:04:01 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesThat's the rip-off, calling it "entertainment."
I don't believe so.
Remember going to the arcade as a kid?
Same principle, except for adults.
Even more so, because as a kid in the arcade, I can remember reading magazines about how to better play the games to make my quarters last longer.
Same thing in the casino (ie: WizardOfOdds, BobDancer classes, etc)
"I am your average American gambling idiot" - Me
September 20th, 2013 at 2:14:30 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2013 at 2:17:06 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesThat's the rip-off, calling it "entertainment."
I don't know, even this, "Casino,":
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/12965-the-worst-casino-ever-comic-relief/
Was entertaining, and in terms of EV, even more of a rip-off!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 20th, 2013 at 2:32:56 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2013 at 3:26:54 PM
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Current Rip-off:
Charging some ridiculous $ 10 fee to check in a 1/2 hour early. I took my parents on a trip recently and ran into this at Harrah's in Tunica. Since my folks are elderly and it was a long drive, I didn't have much choice except to pay it.
Charging some ridiculous $ 10 fee to check in a 1/2 hour early. I took my parents on a trip recently and ran into this at Harrah's in Tunica. Since my folks are elderly and it was a long drive, I didn't have much choice except to pay it.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
September 20th, 2013 at 4:14:40 PM
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Its particularly ridiculous to levy a charge for an early check in.... are ALL the rooms being cleaned still?? With only a half hour left to go was their room really not ready for them in all respects anyway?
The trouble is not just the nickle and dime stuff .... but they constant erosion of the "fair chance".
They no longer want winners.
The trouble is not just the nickle and dime stuff .... but they constant erosion of the "fair chance".
They no longer want winners.
September 20th, 2013 at 5:34:16 PM
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I think classifying any of these changes as a "rip-off" is misleading. We all agree that the odds have been getting worse for us players, but unless they are cheating or stealing I wouldn't consider it a rip-off.
If I owned a casino I would offer single deck 6:5 blackjack as long as players were lined up to play it. Our whole economy is based on supply and demand. If you want the games to change the best course of action would be to spend your time educating the public to lessen the demand. Casino's, like you, and most businesses are about maximizing profits. I have a strip client that is now asking for a 85% payback three reel slot machine that is a $5 denom three coin game. If consumers play it, I don't blame the casino.
If I owned a casino I would offer single deck 6:5 blackjack as long as players were lined up to play it. Our whole economy is based on supply and demand. If you want the games to change the best course of action would be to spend your time educating the public to lessen the demand. Casino's, like you, and most businesses are about maximizing profits. I have a strip client that is now asking for a 85% payback three reel slot machine that is a $5 denom three coin game. If consumers play it, I don't blame the casino.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 20th, 2013 at 6:22:11 PM
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Quote: Mission146+2
I believe customers make the free choice to go the casino, and as long as the Rules are clearly available and the HE can become known, then the casino can offer Even Money, No-Double, No-Split, No Surrender, Hit Soft 17, 8-Deck game dealt from a CSM, for all I care. I'm not playing it, but if someone does, that's his/her lookout.
BUT, if the casino gets enough people to play their 10% HE games, there will be no need to offer 3:2 BJ, and you could see the better games disappear.
So, we do need some ploppies to play and pay the way for the rest of us, but we don't need so many that the better games can disappear.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
