Revel promotion sounds too good to be true
Quote: siliconeComps & offers in Nevada can be revoked based on the amount of play.
That doesn't sound right. Aren't they given based on past play? I could see not offering additional comps in the future if play levels change, but the current comps were "earned" in the past, weren't they?
Quote: rdw4potusThat doesn't sound right. Aren't they given based on past play? I could see not offering additional comps in the future if play levels change, but the current comps were "earned" in the past, weren't they?
yes and no. For example, I am offered one free night per week in July. They will honor my first night, but based on the play for that day they can revoke subsequent reservations. One casino had told me to stay free, play, and based on my play they will decide if I can get subsequent nights or not.
Quote: BhappyJust curious. How do other casinos treat APs?
Most places are pretty relaxed about machine APs, because they're so easy to defend against. W-2G regulations make it impossible to play anonymously for substantial stakes without committing a federal crime, and once you have the player's identity, you can handle them however you want.
I can count 12 different casinos who have taken some action against me because of my play, not including all the affiliated properties in the case of chains. Most of them have simply cancelled my players card, or informed me that I am no longer eligible for mailers or promos, or reduced the rate at which I earn points to near-zero. (One didn't even do that, backing me off of the promotion I was playing at the time, but keeping me eligible for everything in the future.) Three of them told me I am no longer allowed to play certain types of games on their property. Only one tried to cheat me out of already-promised promotion benefits, and a chewing out by Gaming got them to behave. Only one has formally trespassed me. None have backroomed me or threatened me with violence.
Quote: AbeFrohmanI have direct information that this board was a primary source for Revel to tighten and significantly dilute this rebate offer.
Without this board, they couldn't have figured out that high-denomination, high-return video poker would be a players' target? If it weren't Revel, I wouldn't believe that at all.
Quote: GlitchmeFYI pulling your card may have caused this.
I was going to ask about this. If you used the Electronic Tables like Blackjack, and pulled your card on all of your 20s (or even all of your EV+ situations) before you stand, how would that be calculated? I never understood exactly when and how a win or loss was calculated and put on your card.
Quote: AbeFrohmanrandom person: "I was on a list of people that the promotion would not be honored for in the afternoon yesterday."
Please explain. You were pegged as an AP prior to the promotion or during the promotion? How would they know?
I wish I knew. I still haven't received any more information. I am going to gaming first thing tomorrow. The Revel lawyer is still completely unresponsive. I have talked to four other people that have also had their cards revoked.
Quote: AbeFrohmanI have direct information that this board was a primary source for Revel to tighten and significantly dilute this rebate offer.
Names?
I have direct information that this board had nothing to do with it. I asked myself and told myself that it wasn't.
Quote: BhappyThank you Mission.
You're welcome. I'm sorry I don't know more, but the only time I have been backed off from a casino had nothing to do with AP, it was because I was logging the results of spins on a flat-top Quick Hits machine playing $0.01 at a time to determine the probabilities for a dissection. The house in question stated that I was stealing proprietary information and banned me for 24 hours under threat of a permanent ban if I did it again.
They also accused me of, "Vulturing," or, "Buffalo-Hunting," machines, but that accusation was not even remotely true. I was scanning the place for advantageous Progressive slot machines, and found two different Quick Hits machines (not at an advantage) that had Credits, but less than a Max Bet, on them and nobody sitting there. The Expected Return of the spin is over 100% given that I am not paying for the full spin, so how can I refuse? I added money and took one spin on each and then finally found an advantageous, or close to advantageous Quick Hits machine and played that.
Anyway, I was treated the same after that, and still got offered what little Free Play they offer.
Quote: Mission146Names?
I have direct information that this board had nothing to do with it. I asked myself and told myself that it wasn't.
Oh, c'mon. That's still too easy:-)
I talked to my imaginary friend John J. J. Schmidt, and he said that Michael Shackleford is a spy for Revel!
Quote: Mission146Names?
Putin, via Snowden.
Quote: cclub79I was going to ask about this. If you used the Electronic Tables like Blackjack, and pulled your card on all of your 20s (or even all of your EV+ situations) before you stand, how would that be calculated? I never understood exactly when and how a win or loss was calculated and put on your card.
We didn't do card pulling. My understanding is that it doesn't work with the modern computer systems.
Quote: randompersonWe didn't do card pulling. My understanding is that it doesn't work with the modern computer systems.
Yeah, I assume modern systems temphold the info until the game is completed.
Quote: Mission146
They also accused me of, "Vulturing," or, "Buffalo-Hunting," machines, but that accusation was not even remotely true. I was scanning the place for advantageous Progressive slot machines, and found two different Quick Hits machines (not at an advantage) that had Credits, but less than a Max Bet, on them and nobody sitting there. The Expected Return of the spin is over 100% given that I am not paying for the full spin, so how can I refuse?
Because that's technically illegal? Or it should be anyway. Of course I have occasionally collected the occasional 10c, 20c, etc. here myself, so I'm not faultless. Lately I just have been cashing them out though and leaving the ticket by the machine for anyone else who wants it.
Quote: siliconeComps & offers in Nevada can be revoked based on the amount of play.
Not accurate.
1) They were provided a list of names that included my name; they don't know why I am on it, but they deactivated my card because of that (FWIW - I believed the supervisor when he said he couldn't tell me because he didn't know, as opposed to he wouldn't tell me).
2) Moreover, not only am I no longer permitted to participate in the slot refund promotion, but my losses up to that point will not be refunded, either; this is arguably the most troubling aspect of the whole ordeal.
3) Nonetheless, it is equally important to note that I am not ejected, evicted, or excluded from playing at Revel; in fact, I was specifically told I could continue to play without a card.
4) Similarly, I am still at Revel. Because of my action, and losses, I was comped rooms, which have not been revoked. I *assume* the Admins here can verify this from my IP address (I am writing from my hotel room right now).
5) Further, I was told that the Resort Dollars I earned are still mine to use. Unfortunately I cannot use them at this time because my card is currently inactive. However, on August first (i.e. - after July), I will be able to (when *presumably* my card will be restored).
Not that it matters to me, but I was also informed that I could not receive any free slot play under the offer where Revel matches offers from other Atlantic City properties; the only reason I came here was to participate in the advertised promotion ("All July Slot Losses Refunded"), so everything else is a distant second for me.
This time, it'll be different. This time, we'll invite you to the housewarming party! We promise!
We'll also drunkenly grope your girlfriend and get sloppy drunk and make disgusting racist remarks about the guests! Ha! We're real party animals!
And hey, while we're at it, we may as well hit you up for money and never pay you back!
To win you back, we've decided to create a promotion that is actually a lie, allow people to participate in the promotion even though we knew we were going to steal from them, and then illegally revoke their already agreed upon and awarded dividends from the common law contract we entered.
We're doing it "old school" by being tax-dodging investor-scamming criminals who leech off our investors and strategically file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection! Just like the good ol' days!
Come by the new and improved Revel Resort and Casino while you still can! We'll all be really busy in court for the next several months so please visit us while you can! Our reputation will turn to shit and our building will crumble to dust and our CEO will probably take his own life within the next six years, but don't let that discourage you! Just because our CEO's family is planning to leave him and our casino manager seriously considers suicide every dark and hopeless night DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T STILL HAVE FUN!!! PLEASE? PLEASE. PLEASE ENJOY YOURSELF. THE LIES WERE NEVER MEANT FOR YOU. WE THOUGHT WE WERE DOING THE RIGHT THING. I ONLY WANTED TO PROTECT YOU... I NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD BE LIKE THIS. SOMETIMES I THINK I SEE YOU AT NIGHT, THROUGH THE SNOW. I HEAR YOU THERE, BUT SEE NO FOOTPRINTS. I CALL YOUR NAME, BUT NOTHING ESCAPES BUT A GASP. PLEASE COME BACK.
IT TAKES ME HOURS TO FALL ASLEEP, THE EXACT MOMENT HERALDED BY SUDDEN MOVEMENT AT THE FOOT OF MY BED. I HOPE THIS MONSTER KILLS ME.
Quote: tringlomane
Because that's technically illegal? Or it should be anyway. Of course I have occasionally collected the occasional 10c, 20c, etc. here myself, so I'm not faultless. Lately I just have been cashing them out though and leaving the ticket by the machine for anyone else who wants it.
I happened to find out that such is actually illegal in Pennsylvania, but in the State in which I was doing it, it is not illegal.
Quote: RevelPRGlad to see you enjoyed your stay at the new Revel Resort and Casino! Gamblers wanted!
Revel PR is banned pursuant to the Multiple Accounts rule.
Quote: SicBoPro
2) Moreover, not only am I no longer permitted to participate in the slot refund promotion, but my losses up to that point will not be refunded, either; this is arguably the most troubling aspect of the whole ordeal.
I don't get how they can do this ! A casino is a business, and don't businesses have to advertise truthfully ? Certainly it would have been easy for them to exclude high denom VP machines in the fine-print of their offer. Will the NJ Gaming Commission do anything if contacted ?
This is still on their website as of this morning:
"See Revel Card Desk for details. Must be 21 or older. Revel Card required. Minimum cumulative loss of $100 by July 31, 2013. Loss refunds are capped at $100,000. Only slot, video poker and electronic table game play is eligible. Losses are refunded over 20 weeks beginning August 5, 2013 in the form of Free Slot Play."
I think it should also be required to have ALL THE DETAILS posted on their website, rather than having to "See Revel Card Desk for details".
I haven't ever been to AC, and I certainly don't see a reason to go now.
Quote: JohnnyQ
I haven't ever been to AC, and I certainly don't see a reason to go now.
Trump, Golden Nugget, and Atlantic Club have decent sign-up offers. Borgata and Harrah's are great casinos with good games. The boardwalk is fun for a day.
To all those who lost money and then had their card pulled and were told their losses would not be reimbursed, I suggest you all get together and file a lawsuit now against Revel. The PR would destroy them-- WHILE the promo is going on gamblers are suing because Revel was not honoring it. It would be widely covered in the media. That would be your best option to get a quick settlement from Revel and get your losses back.
Quote: jonI was seriously considering (before they pulled the good machines) doing this promo to the tune of the $100k loss as per the Wizard's and Eliot's math. I can only imagine the hell to raise if I had lost the $100k (or a good portion of it) and then they "pulled my card" and denied reimbursement of the losses. There would have been a lawsuit for sure. I would never have expected the Revel to renege like that, so it's a good thing they pulled those machines out. My wife didn't think playing this promo was a good idea and apparently she was right.
To all those who lost money and then had their card pulled and were told their losses would not be reimbursed, I suggest you all get together and file a lawsuit now against Revel. The PR would destroy them-- WHILE the promo is going on gamblers are suing because Revel was not honoring it. It would be widely covered in the media. That would be your best option to get a quick settlement from Revel and get your losses back.
If only this board had a lawyer licensed in NJ who could help with the suit! :-)
Quote: Mission146I happened to find out that such is actually illegal in Pennsylvania, but in the State in which I was doing it, it is not illegal.
It's not illegal either in PA, but they tell people "it could be considered theft", though the law is simple, it is complicated. We're so well trained in America, we believe legal opinions to be the law. The truth is you could keep it, but you must try to find the owner and give it to them if you find them.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...9.024.000..HTM
§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
Cross References. Section 3924 is referred to in section 5552 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
Quote: rdw4potusI talked to my imaginary friend John J. J. Schmidt
His name is my name too!!!
There were people doing things at Revel that definitely were not kosher. AxelWolf saw it, I saw it, several people who I know spotted it independently. I think DGE will support Revel in any action taken against the people I am talking about. Axel was very discrete in not describing the specifics, and I will not say anything on the matter
I agree with Axel. It is one thing to scam a promo, but another thing to do it so openly. You could spot it from 50 feet away. I would think APs would have more skills at hiding what they were doing.
I sincerely hope Revel is not barring players just for taking a freeroll. It would be great if Revel can limit the bleeding to AP freerollers to the point where they make money off of all the tourists. It would be horrible if they are proven to be be barring people just because the are trying to hit a jackpot in a casino.
If anyone here is a journalist or lawyer looking into the matter, be sure to give Revel a chance to explain themselves. There may be more to this than meets the eye. If people unfairly tar Revel before the first weekend of the promo, it means Revel will have a very hard time making the promo work for them. This will be very bad for all of us.
Does that mean the House has to actively look for the player if they find such a machine? What if they know who the player is via Player's Card? Do they mail them a check?
Quote: fivespotSicBoPro, randomperson, have you contacted the New Jersey Casino Control Commission? I would expect them to kick Revel in the teeth for you. Going further up the chain at Revel management, or talking to Revel's lawyer, is probably a waste of time.
I filed a report with gaming today. They just said an investigator will call us about it later.
I also found out the list of people excluded has about forty names on it. This was a slip up by a desk person who shouldn't have revealed that number but did anyway.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's not illegal either in PA, but they tell people "it could be considered theft", though the law is simple, it is complicated. We're so well trained in America, we believe legal opinions to be the law. The truth is you could keep it, but you must try to find the owner and give it to them if you find them.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...9.024.000..HTM
§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
Cross References. Section 3924 is referred to in section 5552 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
Um, what Mission described he did is illegal in PA by that exact law. It's not like he made an effort to find the owner of the left over quarter first before playing it off...lol I assume if the owner returned, Mission would have been nice enough to reimburse him though.
Recently someone was an idiot at my local casino and left a $100 ticket laying at the bar with his date/escort? lol I was too engrossed in playing/TV to initially notice when they left. I did remember the chick he was with though. Eventually casino personnel were called to take care of the ticket. The bartender and I then saw the chick. The other personnel flagged them down, reviewed the tape, and gave him the $100 ticket. Believe it or not, the casino isn't always trying to screw you.
Revel is definitely trying to screw players over though. Very blatantly, I might add.
Quote: LossRebate
There were people doing things at Revel that definitely were not kosher. AxelWolf saw it, I saw it, several people who I know spotted it independently. I think DGE will support Revel in any action taken against the people I am talking about. Axel was very discrete in not describing the specifics, and I will not say anything on the matter
I agree with Axel. It is one thing to scam a promo, but another thing to do it so openly. You could spot it from 50 feet away. I would think APs would have more skills at hiding what they were doing.
Interesting. You are right that are 2 sides to every story...
So you are saying that someone who has no negative history with any casino who follows Revel's rules and plays and loses 100k should expect to get paid? I do not know exactly what AP techniques you and Axel are referring to (but I can guess). Assuming no scamming attempts are attempted, then there is no risk that Revel will renege?
Quote: tringlomaneUm, what Mission described he did is illegal in PA by that exact law. It's not like he made an effort to find the owner of the left over quarter first before playing it off...lol I assume if the owner returned, Mission would have been nice enough to reimburse him though.
Absolutely!
In one case, it was less than a Max Bet of $1.50 and less than a dollar, in the other machine, it was more than a dollar, but less than $1.50.
If the individual who claimed to have left his money in the first machine had come up to me, I'd have just given him a dollar. I'd have given the latter person two dollars.
The assumption, which has a high probability of being correct, in my opinion, is that they were playing and simply left the machine when they did not have enough to make a Max Bet anymore. I'm a smart-off now because I will ticket out a machine and place the ticket on top of the machine, regardless of the amount, even if I plan to play the machine for a lengthy period of time.
Quote: AbeFrohmanI do not know exactly what AP techniques you and Axel are referring to (but I can guess). Assuming no scamming attempts are attempted, then there is no risk that Revel will renege?
I can't, would you mind sharing your guess, or PMing me if it would make you more comfortable? I'm really curious about this one!
Revel has had at least four days since the posts here began with the machine removals to get off its duff. So have all the big-shot state agencies. So have all the South Jersey media outlets. The sum total: crickets!Quote: LossRebateIf anyone here is a journalist or lawyer looking into the matter, be sure to give Revel a chance to explain themselves. There may be more to this than meets the eye. If people unfairly tar Revel before the first weekend of the promo, it means Revel will have a very hard time making the promo work for them. This will be very bad for all of us.
