Revel promotion sounds too good to be true
Quote: aceofspadesWhat will they put in its place?
As a crowning irony, they could put a cigar lounge there :P
Quote: 1BBSoup kitchen?
"A Soup kitchen that happens to have a Casino?"
Quote: 7star4nowGamblers wanted?
Revel to Close Poker Room by August 15th
As luck would have it, earlier today I was thinking about going there on 8/9 to play in their regular Friday tourney.
Sigh, now I gotta re-think this....
I hate to say this but this has Harrah's buyout written all over it (remember I predicted that).
Quote: WizardSomebody correct me if I'm wrong, but they are the only casino in Atlantic City to not have pai gow tiles. Is there anything they are doing right?
I hate to say this but this has Harrah's buyout written all over it (remember I predicted that).
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/13126-revel-atlantic-city-pai-gow-tiles-trip-report/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/13360-revel-atlantic-city-a-trip-report-st-patricks-weekend/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/13420-and-712-rev-and-601-l-and-601-t-and-712-lantik-and-712-sit-and-275-march-madness-trip-report/
And now they even have smoking permitted Pai Gow Tiles! Come on WoO, give them some credit! :)
Quote: chaunceyb3three links
I stand corrected. My apologies to the Revel.
Quote: NareedAs a crowning irony, they could put a cigar lounge there :P
I may have missed the point, but why would you need a lounge if you can puff anywhere on the casino floor?
Quote: gpac1377I may have missed the point, but why would you need a lounge if you can puff anywhere on the casino floor?
You can't. A decent amount of Revel is still non-smoking. But the "joke" is that Revel was 100% non-smoking for over a year at least, maybe two plus years?
Quote: aceofspadesI don't like soup :(
Laughing my ass off. Do you think the card pullers ever heard of Flush Fever?
Quote: mickeycrimmLaughing my ass off. Do you think the card pullers ever heard of Flush Fever?
Possibly, but Revel is too new of a casino for that game, I'd think.
Revel's soft opening was 4/2/12, just 16 months ago.Quote: tringlomaneYou can't. A decent amount of Revel is still non-smoking. But the "joke" is that Revel was 100% non-smoking for over a year at least, maybe two plus years?
Their Grand Opening was 8 weeks later on Memorial Day Weekend.
Quote: tringlomaneYou can't. A decent amount of Revel is still non-smoking.
Sorry, I meant to suggest that smokers are allowed to stroll anywhere on the floor while smoking. The only possibility of a reprimand would be if they actually sit at a non-smoking game.
At least that's how it's done in Nevada. I'm assuming Atlantic City must be similar.
A smoking lounge would actually be friendly to people who enjoy breathing because it's a designated area that can be avoided.
Quote: tringlomaneYou can't. A decent amount of Revel is still non-smoking. But the "joke" is that Revel was 100% non-smoking for over a year at least, maybe two plus years?
I made a bet with Bob Dancer that the Revel would go a year and still be majority non-smoking. On the radio I conceded losing this bet. However, maybe I didn't. What percentage of the casino floor is still non-smoking?
Quote: WizardWhat percentage of the casino floor is still non-smoking?
In theory, I think it should be 75% non-smoking. Isn't that the law in New Jersey?
Here's a Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke-Free_Air_Act#Smoke-free_casinos
Quote: WizardI made a bet with Bob Dancer that the Revel would go a year and still be majority non-smoking. On the radio I conceded losing this bet. However, maybe I didn't. What percentage of the casino floor is still non-smoking?
I don't know the exact answer, but I think you made a bet you couldn't lose - AC limits the floorspace allowed for smoking areas to 25% of a casino's total square footage.
Quote: rdw4potusI don't know the exact answer, but I think you made a bet you couldn't lose - AC limits the floorspace allowed for smoking areas to 25% of a casino's total square footage.
I'd be interested to hear comments from other AC players on this. My last time in AC was in 2000 or 2001 and they seemed entirely smoking to me.
Quote: WizardI'd be interested to hear comments from other AC players on this. My last time in AC was in 2000 or 2001 and they seemed entirely smoking to me.
If I stand in the smoking area on one side of a walkway with a cigar and blow smoke at you on the other side of the walkway, does it matter if the sign over your head says you're in a non-smoking area?
Quote: WizardI'd be interested to hear comments from other AC players on this. My last time in AC was in 2000 or 2001 and they seemed entirely smoking to me.
Revel is now the same as all the other AC Casinos. They all have marked smoking and non smoking areas, but they are next to each other. You could be playing at a non smoking slot and the one next to you is smoking. The only place with an entire non smoking floor is Caesars AC with their 2nd floor non smoking. However you can still smell smoke from up the steps and the tables are only open at night.
The bigger issue is the entire lack of execution of the rules. Smokers light up everywhere and walk through the non smoking areas at best, or at worst smoke at a non smoking slot. Security does nothing about it and doesn't want to be bothered if you actually find them. If you are a confrontational person, you can say something to the smoker in a non area, but I have seen it almost come to blows and it just isn't worth it.
In summary, my opinion is that the smoking policy is a joke, but I know it is my choice to gamble in AC and just deal with it. This is why many players like me tried Revel and wanted it to succeed as a non smoking casino. But it shows treatment and comps were more important to me than non-smoking and that is why they failed as a non smoking casino.
Quote: BozRevel is now the same as all the other AC Casinos. Smokers light up everywhere and walk through the non smoking areas at best, or at worst smoke at a non smoking slot.
That's what I figured, thanks for confirming. Bonus points for Security refusing to help.
Quote: BozBut it shows treatment and comps were more important to me than non-smoking and that is why they failed as a non smoking casino.
It seems to me the casino industry has alienated the type of people who would demand a non-smoking environment, and as a result, casinos are completely off their radar. It's a problem without any instant solution.
Quote: gpac1377That's what I figured, thanks for confirming. Bonus points for Security refusing to help.
It seems to me the casino industry has alienated the type of people who would demand a non-smoking environment, and as a result, casinos are completely off their radar. It's a problem without any instant solution.
That is very true. Last month's revenues at Revel were less than a year ago when they were non-smoking. Perhaps all the non-smoking gamblers from NY, MD, and DE went in to hiding. But casino industry still hangs on to the myth that smokers are their salvation. The non-smoking Resort World generates 25% revenues as all the casinos in AC COMBINED. The non-smoking Md-Live makes as much money as Borgata.
Quote: DJTeddyBearAs luck would have it, earlier today I was thinking about going there on 8/9 to play in their regular Friday tourney.
Sigh, now I gotta re-think this....
Quote: Boz
In summary, my opinion is that the smoking policy is a joke, but I know it is my choice to gamble in AC and just deal with it. This is why many players like me tried Revel and wanted it to succeed as a non smoking casino. But it shows treatment and comps were more important to me than non-smoking and that is why they failed as a non smoking casino.
If that is your main priority, any casino in the State of Ohio. The room comps MUST be generous at Horseshoe Cleveland, all I did there was exploit a December promotion by which they would double my Free Play from any other casino on a one-time basis, and I received multiple calls pertaining to room and food comps after that. I walked away with a decent win, too. I know that technically it is, "My money," after a win, so I did gamble my own money in that sense, but let's just say that I never gambled a dollar that could have originally been found in my wallet prior to walking in.
Quote: Mission146If that is your main priority, any casino in the State of Ohio. The room comps MUST be generous at Horseshoe Cleveland, all I did there was exploit a December promotion by which they would double my Free Play from any other casino on a one-time basis, and I received multiple calls pertaining to room and food comps after that. I walked away with a decent win, too. I know that technically it is, "My money," after a win, so I did gamble my own money in that sense, but let's just say that I never gambled a dollar that could have originally been found in my wallet prior to walking in.
I had that same experience with Horseshoe Cleveland. I hope they keep that up!
Also, IL and CO have non-smoking casinos as well.
Quote: rdw4potusI had that same experience with Horseshoe Cleveland. I hope they keep that up!
Also, IL and CO have non-smoking casinos as well.
If you read the excuses Penn National Gaming gave for their poor results, one of the major ones they used was what they called "Suicidal" giveaways by Ohio casinos. But on the other hand Caesars actually had its best quarter in a long time, assuming you consider losing "only" 212 Million good.
Caesars doesn't make any money. All their revenue goes to paying off their debt service. Weird business model.Quote: BozIf you read the excuses Penn National Gaming gave for their poor results, one of the major ones they used was what they called "Suicidal" giveaways by Ohio casinos. But on the other hand Caesars actually had its best quarter in a long time, assuming you consider losing "only" 212 Million good.
If you can make it down there, Horseshoe Cincinnati is giving out insane offers for table and slot play bounceback. Cleveland is also very good but not as good as Cincy. I'm consistently impressed by how Caesars blows Penn National out of the water promotions-wise.
Quote: BozIf you read the excuses Penn National Gaming gave for their poor results, one of the major ones they used was what they called "Suicidal" giveaways by Ohio casinos. But on the other hand Caesars actually had its best quarter in a long time, assuming you consider losing "only" 212 Million good.
In Toledo, they aren't managed right is their main problem, followed by tight machines, poor service and joke mailers 15 times a month.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIn Toledo, they aren't managed right is their main problem, followed by tight machines, poor service and joke mailers 15 times a month.
And yeah, Toledo gives virtually nothing.
http://casinocontrol.ohio.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=A893IoBs9r0%3d&tabid=101
Quote: WizardI'd be interested to hear comments from other AC players on this. My last time in AC was in 2000 or 2001 and they seemed entirely smoking to me.
WIZ - although NJ law is that 25% of casino floor may be smoking, the reality is somewhat different.
Revel's UltraLounge (high limit area) now allows smoking, in addition to the main casino floor - additionally, they allow smoking at the bar although there are no video poker or slots at the bar...
Also, other casino's in AC are lax in how the smoking sections are enforced...basically, if Player X gets upset at losing and walks away from a table with a lit cigarette, they parade through the casino and nobody stops them ---come to think of it - I see people lighting up 100 feet from the smoking area on their way thereto - I have never seen any casino employee approach a player and tell them to stop smoking in a non-smoking section...
Quote: aceofspadesadditionally, they allow smoking at the bar although there are no video poker or slots at the bar...
That one is a violation of state law and not just an (unenforced) city ordinance.
Quote: 7star4nowGamblers wanted?
Revel to Close Poker Room by August 15th
http://www.uspoker.com/blog/revel-to-close-poker-room-by-august-15th/4935/
The Press of Atlantic City reports that Revel made just under $91,000 at its 37 poker tables in June, compared to Borgata's $1.8 million from 80 tables .
Quote: 7star4nowThe Press of Atlantic City reports that Revel made just under $91,000 at its 37 poker tables in June, compared to Borgata's $1.8 million from 80 tables .
sooo...$3/hour/table versus $30/hour/table. Yeah, one of these pays for the employees involved, while the other doesn't...
The only way a non smoking casino works in the long run is by making every casino in the country non smoking, which of course, will probably never happen.
There is another solution though.
Why not create smoking sections that are properly sealed off from all other areas. You would have glass partitioning which still creates the illusion that the casino is open and expansive. You put big old extractor fans in there and blow in extra air to make is semi breathable. If you are a smoker then you won't mind mingling, playing and smoking with other smokers, I mean it is your choice after all. It just won't affect the balance of the people int he casino as they will be out in the non smoking areas.
You get dealers to sign consent forms to work in the smoking sections (this is uber important because otherwise 3/4 of the dealers will be sueing within the first 6 months of operation)
The casino now has a happy balance between people who love to smoke and gamble and you also have the rest of the people happy as they can choose whether they want to smell the smoke or not.
Any opinions?
Quote: TomspurOn the smoking debate, here is my 2 cents worth.
The only way a non smoking casino works in the long run is by making every casino in the country non smoking, which of course, will probably never happen.
There is another solution though.
Why not create smoking sections that are properly sealed off from all other areas. You would have glass partitioning which still creates the illusion that the casino is open and expansive. You put big old extractor fans in there and blow in extra air to make is semi breathable. If you are a smoker then you won't mind mingling, playing and smoking with other smokers, I mean it is your choice after all. It just won't affect the balance of the people int he casino as they will be out in the non smoking areas.
You get dealers to sign consent forms to work in the smoking sections (this is uber important because otherwise 3/4 of the dealers will be sueing within the first 6 months of operation)
The casino now has a happy balance between people who love to smoke and gamble and you also have the rest of the people happy as they can choose whether they want to smell the smoke or not.
Any opinions?
It will take years for an answer since Revel was the test for a non smoking casino in a smoking town. But Kevin and UK Stages thought they were smarter than the average gambler and decided that non smoking would trump ( not Trump) screwing the players out of comps. They kept up the facade for months, using people like BHappy to tell players they were being cheap and not deserving of comps instead of not only matching other AC casinos, but beating them.
So they went broke, allowed smoking, thought they were still smarter than gamblers, offered free parking and still went broke,
We will not see a major smoke free casino in AC or Vegas again until the law makes them.
Revel, what you could have been!
"He says a bill proposing a potential statewide smoking ban and another proposing that riverboats docked in the city of Joliet pay $1.5 million for repairs for its civic center also are weighing down the sales price.
"The cumulative effect is significant," Mr. DeSanctis says."
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20060214/NEWS01/200019535/penn-national-asks-for-2-year-extension-to-sell-casinos
In fact, this has been such a colossal failure that it is hard to not think it has been orchestrated from the very beginning.
Open up, make plenty of bad moves, declare bankruptcy, clear debt, still make mistakes, wait for established casino power to take over operation at $.01 on the $1.00 valuation.
Quote: BozIt will take years for an answer since Revel was the test for a non smoking casino in a smoking town. But Kevin and UK Stages thought they were smarter than the average gambler and decided that non smoking would trump ( not Trump) screwing the players out of comps. They kept up the facade for months, using people like BHappy to tell players they were being cheap and not deserving of comps instead of not only matching other AC casinos, but beating them.
So they went broke, allowed smoking, thought they were still smarter than gamblers, offered free parking and still went broke,
We will not see a major smoke free casino in AC or Vegas again until the law makes them.
Revel, what you could have been!
Thanks for the answer Boz.
Just to clarify, I'm in no way advocating a completely smoke free casino but rather to design and construct the casinos of the future in such a way that both the smokers and non smokers can be happy at the same time. There won't be any ambient smoke drifting to the non smoking side pissing someone off and the non smokers won't be able to hiss at the smokers as they will be safely behind glass enjoying a table game or slot machine withouth having to worry about the non smokers hissing :)
Think of it as another pit or a "private pit" for all the smokers to enjoy all types of games and machines.
I believe this should be the future because even as a non smoker I can see the value of the smokers in a casino as long as they smoke nowhere near me :)
Quote: RaleighCrapsI don't think you can even look at Revel as a test case for a non-smoking casino. They have failed so miserably at running this operation, they would have failed as a smoking casino too.
In fact, this has been such a colossal failure that it is hard to not think it has been orchestrated from the very beginning.
Open up, make plenty of bad moves, declare bankruptcy, clear debt, still make mistakes, wait for established casino power to take over operation at $.01 on the $1.00 valuation.
Sounds like you read the book before you watched the movie.
So did I.
Kinda spoiled the plot.
Some decent acting though.
Quote: TomspurWhy not create smoking sections that are properly sealed off from all other areas. You would have glass partitioning which still creates the illusion that the casino is open and expansive.
Thanks for posting. This is such an obvious solution IMO. The casino could be split 50/50, and all non-gaming areas would be smoke-free.
The only problem I see is that it can be difficult to retrofit an existing facility.
But obviously I'm missing something because the casinos are not doing it that way.
What are the drawbacks of confining smoking to a designated area? Is it simply a matter of resistance to change?
Quote: gpac1377Thanks for posting. This is such an obvious solution IMO. The casino could be split 50/50, and all non-gaming areas would be smoke-free.
The only problem I see is that it can be difficult to retrofit an existing facility.
But obviously I'm missing something because the casinos are not doing it that way.
What are the drawbacks of confining smoking to a designated area? Is it simply a matter of resistance to change?
I think you are correct, there is probably very little chance of it being done to existing casinos. The problem is the ceiling height in most places and the installation of the extractor fans. Those are pretty large machines that have to vent to the outside in order to get rid of the putrid smoke.
Also I would assume the reasoning behind not doing this in new joints is the cost involved. It can't be cheap but if you plan for the capex the surely it isn't that much more involved than the original plans anyway?
Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious when you worry only about your bonus level at the end of the year!
Governor Christie banned smoking in all restaurants , bars, hotels and public buildings.
Some casinos built smoking rooms on the casino floor. I can remember seeing them in Caesars and the Wild Wild West.
The casinos appealed the no-smoking policy and they were allowed to have 25% of the casino floor as a smoking area.
If the Atlantic City politicians didn't cave in to the casinos, ALL casinos in AC would be non-smoking today!
Quote: FatGeezusLet's clear the air about smoking in AC casinos. (pun intended)
Governor Christie banned smoking in all restaurants , bars, hotels and public buildings.
Some casinos built smoking rooms on the casino floor. I can remember seeing them in Caesars and the Wild Wild West.
The casinos appealed the no-smoking policy and they were allowed to have 25% of the casino floor as a smoking area.
If the Atlantic City politicians didn't cave in to the casinos, ALL casinos in AC would be non-smoking today!
Wasn't Corzine governor when the smoking ban was passed? Or Codey? It was 2005 or 2006, wasn't it?
MN has a lot of casinos with separate rooms (treasure island) or even buildings (Prairie's Edge) that are smoke free. IL and CO have enclosed outdoor smoking areas for casino guests. Ohio's casinos are smoke free. It's not like other places aren't doing this...
Quote: rdw4potusWasn't Corzine governor when the smoking ban was passed? Or Codey? It was 2005 or 2006, wasn't it?
MN has a lot of casinos with separate rooms (treasure island) or even buildings (Prairie's Edge) that are smoke free. IL and CO have enclosed outdoor smoking areas for casino guests. Ohio's casinos are smoke free. It's not like other places aren't doing this...
True, but all the casinos complain about it. IL losing business to IN and MO, for instance.
Quote: tringlomaneTrue, but all the casinos complain about it. IL losing business to IN and MO, for instance.
Yeah, the IL properties lost business because new casinos were opened in IA, IN, and MO (and MI). Blaming the smoking ban is a sickeningly big red herring.
Look at AC through this lens...MD, DE, and NY have smoke free casinos and they've taken an incredible amount of business from AC. Do we really think AC would be even worse off if those jurisdictions allowed smoking? If PA's casinos were smoke free, would business in AC go back up as smokers flocked back to that jurisdiction? It's just silly that gambling is somehow used as justification for an exception from this rule. I'm not a big proponent of the bans, but I'm definitely an opponent of this very odd exemption.
Quote: rdw4potusWasn't Corzine governor when the smoking ban was passed?
I'm not sure. Maybe I should have said "The Governor".
It was still a dumb move to cave in to the casinos exemption.
Quote: aceofspades
"We all know how much Atlantic City, and the entire state of New Jersey, want Revel to succeed, but we’re willing to bet it could do so without deceiving its customers. "
No, no it can't...
