Revel promotion sounds too good to be true
1. Revel will not pre-load matching offers. That is very smart move. Gamblers would moan and groan, but will be there in line. I know my Gamblers.
2. Revel has a "LIST". I am sure people did not get on that list by a RNG. There must be something in their prior relationship with Revel to be on that list.
3. As casinoboss, and some one else has pointed out, casinos can cancel a player's card.
4. Revel has honored current Free Room offers, but revoked future 'freebies' for the month of July.
5. The comps earned prior to July can be redeemed after July promotion. So basically this is one month 'time out'.
6. They let some keep their winnings, and kept the losses.
7. The people on the list are free to play, but not with the promotion.
8. Some say they saw blatant abuse of the promo.
9. They did this in a very a$$ backward way. The produced the 'List'. All they had to do was deactivate the cards. The people on the list would have found out why their card was not working without wagering a dime.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI can't understand why you're so infatuated with this place Bhappy. Can you explain your love for an inanimate object? Have you been hypnotized or brainwashed by their employees or did you hypnotize them? Any time ever disappear for you?
I like underdogs, and I don't form opinions based on one sided ranting.
Quote: BhappyI like underdogs, and I don't form opinions based on one sided ranting.
I can see that. Just wondered. Just seems hard to defend them when not much is done to justify the defense.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI can see that. Just wondered. Just seems hard to defend them when not much is done to justify the defense.
so do you belive in all the ranting on these boards? Be rational.
Being rational would rquire intelligible responses from Revel and the authorities.Quote: Bhappyso do you belive in all the ranting on these boards? Be rational.
Quote: SanchoPanzaBeing rational would rquire intelligible responses from Revel and the authorities.
We will just wait and see how the authorities respond. If they rule against them, I will eat my words.
Maybe it would be more realistic to phrase it as, "We will just and see IF the authorities respond." After all, the state is on the hook for hundreds of millions here.Quote: BhappyWe will just wait and see how the authorities respond. If they rule against them, I will eat my words.
Quote: BhappyI like underdogs, and I don't form opinions based on one sided ranting.
1. You are promised to have your slot losses refunded, in a highly publicized and obvious way.
2. Revel sees you playing, knows it is not going to refund your losses (but doesn't tell you), and lets you play anyway.
3. At a certain point Revel grows tired of you and while you're down 5 figures tells you you shall not be getting your losses refunded.
How is that okay?
Quote: SanchoPanzaMaybe it would be more realistic to phrase it as, "We will just and see IF the authorities respond." After all, the state is on the hook for hundreds of millions here.
NJ didn't exctly "invest" in Revel... they just gave them hundreds of millions in tax rebates from what I've read.
Quote: dyepaintball12How is that okay?
It isn't. But Bhappy is right that we don't have Revel's side of the story. Maybe they made a mistake. Maybe they're really that incomeptent. Maybe they're being malicious towards some APs (including some on this board). Maybe they're incompetent and malicious.
Quote: Bhappyso do you belive in all the ranting on these boards? Be rational.
Unless someone is paid to be providing false or misleading information, I see no reason to doubt posters when individual posters are consistent. This story is beyond board hysteria and most of the rants are as well. I had my own sour experience with the players club employee last Sept. not explaining comp dollars and going as far as him claiming the place had no VP machines. He was so full of crap he kept smiling and resisting laughing, apparently thinking he was smarter than me. I didn't play one penny because I didn't trust him and thought I best not trust the casino with my money. It was quite a shock months later when I'm here at home and find out Revel really did have VP machines and he did lie to me.
Then I see the blood red carpeting, think of their published holds, other options in AC, and just said forget it. This place was built by people who all had undeserved high opinions of themselves and blew it thanks to their own arrogance. The crux of Revel is they keep wanting to act like they have earned leeway, respect, and status, but they have yet to actually achieve it. This place is going bankrupt, it's going to be bought by one of the big boys, and then it will be successful after dumping the Revel brand. They are beyond the underdog, they're just waiting for the executioner to show up.
Quote: dyepaintball12NJ didn't exctly "invest" in Revel... they just gave them hundreds of millions in tax rebates from what I've read.
The state gave up guaranteed tax rebates for 20 years to anyone running the casino. If Revel makes a profit, it shares based on a formula, but if Revel goes bankrupt, whomever runs it after keeps the rebates, but is off the hook for the profit sharing. Unintended consequences galore and guaranteed scandals.
Comic relief
Quote: Bhappysince you have personal axe to grind, you belive anonymous posters? I do belive that their cards were revoked. Beyond that sufficient facts do not exist.
They didn't hurt me if I didn't play, so no axe to grind. I lost nothing and am not hurt, but see the overwhelming facts which you will see when you're ready to accept them. Now if the casino thought actual rules for the promotion don't matter and they can just abuse discretion, dumb move. They continue to not do their homework and they just can't afford it. If I was running the place I would probably make less mistakes than them for goodness sake. There is no way I approve this promotion period. It just has to be a purposeful bankruptcy plan from day one.
Wishing them all the best with their plans.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/hedge_funds_risky_ties_to_reve.html
Quote: dyepaintball12NJ didn't exctly "invest" in Revel... they just gave them hundreds of millions in tax rebates from what I've read.
Some of the other people that I was referring to did something different. Its not what they were doing I have a problem with, it's how they were doing it that pisses me off. I'm not surprised they got axed due to the fact that they were so greedy and blatant about everything. It was sickening how blatant , it was like watching three separate groups of bank robbers, all holding guns, having a meeting inside a bank and thinking no would notice.
Have you ever seen Americas dumbest criminals? Someone said they(the blatant offenders) were Russian.
Quote: Bhappy2. Revel has a "LIST". I am sure people did not get on that list by a RNG. There must be something in their prior relationship with Revel to be on that list.
This is a poor assumption. It is entirely possible that Revel looked at their play, or researched their names, and decided they weren't likely to be profitable customers and took a freeroll on trying to screw them. There are a couple of cases where I know for a fact that I've been backed off in part because of information found by casino management doing a web search on my name, when they got curious who this high-rolling new guy was.
Quote:8. Some say they saw blatant abuse of the promo.
I give reports of "promo abuse" zero credence until details are given. Casinos, and casino sympathizers, routinely refer to any play they don't like as "abuse" - check the annals of online casino promotions for countless examples. AxelWolf mentioned being pissed at another group of players for being too blatant, but it's entirely reasonable to be pissed at other players for being too obvious about legitimate AP play and bringing down casino heat; I don't think he's said they were doing anything illegal or unethical, just stupid.
Quote:9. They did this in a very a$$ backward way. The produced the 'List'. All they had to do was deactivate the cards. The people on the list would have found out why their card was not working without wagering a dime.
This makes me think that they didn't add people to the list until after they played, suggesting it wasn't a prior history with Revel, but their current play, which prompted such action.
Quote:I like underdogs
In a dispute between a billion-dollar casino and some players, I don't view the casino as the underdog.
Quote: cclub79I was going to ask about this. If you used the Electronic Tables like Blackjack, and pulled your card on all of your 20s (or even all of your EV+ situations) before you stand, how would that be calculated? I never understood exactly when and how a win or loss was calculated and put on your card.
This may have been effective in the 90s, but in all modern players club systems, pulling your card during the middle of a play doesn't change anything. The total win or loss for that play is still associated with the card in the machine at the start of the play. Revel is a new enough casino that there's no chance that pulling your card on a 20 in blackjack or a dealt win in video poker will make any difference to recorded win/loss.
Quote: fivespotThis is a poor assumption. It is entirely possible that Revel looked at their play, or researched their names, and decided they weren't likely to be profitable customers and took a freeroll on trying to screw them. There are a couple of cases where I know for a fact that I've been backed off in part because of information found by casino management doing a web search on my name, when they got curious who this high-rolling new guy was.
I give reports of "promo abuse" zero credence until details are given. Casinos, and casino sympathizers, routinely refer to any play they don't like as "abuse" - check the annals of online casino promotions for countless examples. AxelWolf mentioned being pissed at another group of players for being too blatant, but it's entirely reasonable to be pissed at other players for being too obvious about legitimate AP play and bringing down casino heat; I don't think he's said they were doing anything illegal or unethical, just stupid.
This makes me think that they didn't add people to the list until after they played, suggesting it wasn't a prior history with Revel, but their current play, which prompted such action.
In a dispute between a billion-dollar casino and some players, I don't view the casino as the underdog.
sensible rebuttal.
Quote: BhappyFivespots thanks for a candid response. What do you mean by,"..One didn't even do that, backing me off of the promotion I was playing at the time"?
I mean that they backed me off of the one particular promotion I was playing, but I remain eligible for all future promotions and mailers. This despite the fact that they know I'm a professional gambler and that lots of other places have outright barred me. It was a shocking display of intelligence on their part, which I respect. I mean, if I ran a casino (god forbid), I sure wouldn't bar a player like me, I'd watch them closely and let them identify my best games and my possible leaks, and consider it cheap consulting :)
Quote: fivespotI mean that they backed me off of the one particular promotion I was playing, but I remain eligible for all future promotions and mailers. :)
would I be correct then to assume that casinos reserve the right to allow people to play a promotion or not? That is strange.
I added this question later. However, hypothetically speaking if you were playing this promotion at Revel would you be backed off?
Quote: Bhappywould I be correct then to assume that casinos reserve the right to allow people to play a promotion or not? That is strange.
Definitely strange, and very poor form, imo. But they usually reserve tons of rights in all promos I think.
Quote: Bhappywould I be correct then to assume that casinos reserve the right to allow people to play a promotion or not? That is strange.
If they tell you in advance that you're not eligible for a promotion, and you play anyway, and try to claim the promotion benefits, they're perfectly within their rights to say no. If they advertise a promotion to all players, and you play, and only afterwards do they say "oh wait not YOU", they should get smacked by the gaming commission and/or the courts no matter what vague "mgmt reserves all rights" language they have in the fine print.
Quote: fivespotIf they tell you in advance that you're not eligible for a promotion, and you play anyway, and try to claim the promotion benefits, they're perfectly within their rights to say no. If they advertise a promotion to all players, and you play, and only afterwards do they say "oh wait not YOU", they should get smacked by the gaming commission and/or the courts no matter what vague "mgmt reserves all rights" language they have in the fine print.
That makes sense to me.
Quote: fivespotIf they tell you in advance that you're not eligible for a promotion, and you play anyway, and try to claim the promotion benefits, they're perfectly within their rights to say no. If they advertise a promotion to all players, and you play, and only afterwards do they say "oh wait not YOU", they should get smacked by the gaming commission and/or the courts no matter what vague "mgmt reserves all rights" language they have in the fine print.
That also makes sense.
questions that I had to call their lawyer Lloyd Levenson. It was weird because people were playing like crazy on the 1st but
then on the 2nd the high limit area looked like a ghost town. This was a premeditated scam please nobody go actually thinking
that you will get your money back. The worst part is everyone got kicked out that played on the 1st and nobody got a reason.
Quote: dshot702I played lost my ass then was told I was kicked out of the promo. I didn't get a reason why I was just told if I wanted to ask
questions that I had to call their lawyer Lloyd Levenson. It was weird because people were playing like crazy on the 1st but
then on the 2nd the high limit area looked like a ghost town. This was a premeditated scam please nobody go actually thinking
that you will get your money back. The worst part is everyone got kicked out that played on the 1st and nobody got a reason.
IM willing to make you a large wager that every thing I said to be true is true. It can be proven.
Quote: BhappyIn my opinion story is developing as follows:
1. Revel will not pre-load matching offers. That is very smart move. Gamblers would moan and groan, but will be there in line. I know my Gamblers.
2. Revel has a "LIST". I am sure people did not get on that list by a RNG. There must be something in their prior relationship with Revel to be on that list.
3. As casinoboss, and some one else has pointed out, casinos can cancel a player's card.
4. Revel has honored current Free Room offers, but revoked future 'freebies' for the month of July.
5. The comps earned prior to July can be redeemed after July promotion. So basically this is one month 'time out'.
6. They let some keep their winnings, and kept the losses.
7. The people on the list are free to play, but not with the promotion.
8. Some say they saw blatant abuse of the promo.
9. They did this in a very a$$ backward way. The produced the 'List'. All they had to do was deactivate the cards. The people on the list would have found out why their card was not working without wagering a dime.
What about them answering, "Yes," when I asked them if all of the current slot and video poker machines in all present denominations would be available during the promotion? That was prior to them even pulling the $25 VP machines.
Quote: AxelWolfThe Revel had a list of names of people that should not be permitted to play the promotion. Where or how they got the names no one seems to know. 2 players I personally know that have never been to the Revel in their life went to the card booth and were told they were not eligible for a card or the promotion. The 2 people have a few things in common. One is that they often post on messages boards and are known as high limit APs.
Axel, you seem consistent. I am coming around to the belief that 'innocent' people were targeted. The bad behavior I saw was not going on on high-denomination games. I am guessing that Revel mostly targeted the Vegas crowd that flew in to take a legitimate freeroll on the high-limit machines. It is telling that none of the Revel's regular customers has been revoked, as far as I know. Bob Dancer says he knows a number of players who have been revoked, yet nobody has reported any problems on the private AC video poker board.
Quote: LossRebateAxel, you seem consistent. I am coming around to the belief that 'innocent' people were targeted. The bad behavior I saw was not going on on high-denomination games. I am guessing that Revel mostly targeted the Vegas crowd that flew in to take a legitimate freeroll on the high-limit machines. It is telling that none of the Revel's regular customers has been revoked, as far as I know. Bob Dancer says he knows a number of players who have been revoked, yet nobody has reported any problems on the private AC video poker board.
Wow this is becoming interesting every day. The story is not complete yet.
Quote: BhappyWow this is becoming interesting every day. The story is not complete yet.
I hope you keep an open mind about it and understand that most people didnt start with a bias against Revel, Revel earned it.
Yet another testament to anonymity on forums like this one.Quote: AxelWolf2 players I personally know that have never been to the Revel in their life went to the card booth and were told they were not eligible for a card or the promotion. The 2 people have a few things in common. One is that they often post on messages boards and are known as high limit APs.
Quote: BozI hope you keep an open mind about it and understand that most people didnt start with a bias against Revel, Revel earned it.
I am. Boz I have already acknoledged that Revel was run by incompetant idiots. Their only competency was to fleece Wall Street suits out of Billions.
I am leanig towards the opinion that they should not have kept such a high loss limit, deactivated the cards sooner for people on the 'list', and if reports are correct they are not giving out cards to people on the 'list'. This according the some professional gamblers is a general practice.
Quote: Mission146What about them answering, "Yes," when I asked them if all of the current slot and video poker machines in all present denominations would be available during the promotion? That was prior to them even pulling the $25 VP machines.
Mission I attribute that to low level employees not knowing the game plan (if there was any). When I was working, the VP of our division had a town hall meeting, and he assured people that our place will not be affected by layoffs. Guess what? few days later we had layoff anouncement.
Quote: dshot702I played lost my ass then was told I was kicked out of the promo. I didn't get a reason why I was just told if I wanted to ask questions that I had to call their lawyer Lloyd Levenson.
Wow, Lloyd Levenson of Cooper Levenson http://www.cooperlevenson.com/ is probably about the biggest gun Revel could have retained. Good luck getting a hold of him. I have nothing bad to say about him (in fact I have a lot of respect for him and the firm) but these guys are known as being pretty cut-throat in the industry and I doubt you can just call him and he will be like "OK, sure, we'll refund your money."
Quote: BhappyMission I attribute that to low level employees not knowing the game plan (if there was any). When I was working, the VP of our division had a town hall meeting, and he assured people that our place will not be affected by layoffs. Guess what? few days later we had layoff anouncement.
The only time you should ever be worried about layoffs is when management tells you not to worry.
There is a reason they are telling you that. DUH !
Quote: BuzzardThe only time you should ever be worried about layoffs is when management tells you not to worry.
There is a reason they are telling you that. DUH !
Well Buzz, I knew the VP quite well. He was human first then VP. When he had to announce layoffs within few days, he had tears in his eyes.
Maybe even he didn't know. We had a similar situation in our office, with buyouts and layoffs. And the key person in negotiating them was dismissed, with just short notice, on the last day of the quarter along with the rest of the departures.Quote: BhappyWell Buzz, I knew the VP quite well. He was human first then VP. When he had to announce layoffs within few days, he had tears in his eyes.
Quote: SanchoPanzaMaybe even he didn't know. We had a similar situation in our office, with buyouts and layoffs. And the key person in negotiating them was dismissed, with just short notice, on the last day of the quarter along with the rest of the departures.
That was the point I was trying to make to Mission. Unless it is a mon&pop shop, ot every one in an organization knows everything.
It's an old German custom "Arbeit macht frei"
Quote: BuzzardDid not say he was lying. But think about it. Why are layoffs even mentioned unless there are going to be some? Maybe not your particular location, but management always tells everyplace not to worry.
It's an old German custom "Arbeit macht frei"
Pardon me? That's a huge stretch and a huge misplacement of what that phrase originally meant, let alone what it came to mean.
Wow.
