VoterID / Fraud (Split from Gun Show Loophole)
Quote: AZDuffmanI am more than willing to let the admin lock it. It has degenerated to S2 posting links about gun accidents every few days to troll up responses.
Quote: s2dbakerScrew that! Some four year old girl is going to die in a gun related accident this week and I need to be able to post the gory details here.
Edit: I wasn't aware of this one when I posted that. Technically, the kid was 6 and male but the shooter at least was a 4 year old.
SITYS
Quote: 100xOddsso there's a compromise gun background bill about to be introdcued in the Senate today.
Wonder how it would control gun sales in gun show parking lots?
make ALL gun sales illegal if it doesnt go thru a background check?
I'll support that when liberals low us to require ID to vote and require voter rolls to be checked for fraud and purged.
I'm glad that you support gun control. Liberals support each voter identifying themdelves before voting and we support keeping the voter rolls current.Quote: AZDuffmanI'll support that when liberals low us to require ID to vote and require voter rolls to be checked for fraud and purged.
Quote: s2dbakerI'm glad that you support gun control. Liberals support each voter identifying themdelves before voting and we support keeping the voter rolls current.
Yeah, that is why liberals sue to stop voter id laws and voter purges.
Quote: AZDuffmanI'll support that when liberals low us to require ID to vote and require voter rolls to be checked for fraud and purged.
Yeah, I'm just waiting for liberals to start campaigning for "equal rights" so that illegal aliens have the same voting rights as we do. They probably call it "voter equality".....haha! ;)
Quote: AZDuffmanYeah, that is why liberals sue to stop voter id laws and voter purges.
...and voter ID laws are supposedly 'racist' too.
Quote: s2dbakerNo, that's incorrect.
You have me confused with low information Obama voters who don't know better.
When has the left supported voter id and purging the rolls to keep them clean?
Although the Obama administration did support the right of the Black Panthers to stand in dro t of the polls with a club.
But we are getting off topic. You have been saying how because you are afraid you will shoot yourself while cleaning your gun I should not be allowed to own one,right?
Wrong again. You're starting to sound like EvenBob.Quote: AZDuffmanYou have me confused with low information Obama voters who don't know better.
When has the left supported voter id and purging the rolls to keep them clean?
Although the Obama administration did support the right of the Black Panthers to stand in dro t of the polls with a club.
But we are getting off topic. You have been saying how because you are afraid you will shoot yourself while cleaning your gun I should not be allowed to own one,right?
Quote: s2dbakerWrong again. You're starting to sound like EvenBob.
OK, show me where a liberal has proposed or/and supported requiring ID at the polls
Show me where the left supports purging voter rolls
Show me where Eric Holder prosecuted the Black Panthers instead of killing the investigation
Come on. Lets have more than simply saying "no, it isn't."
How about instead of me having to disprove all of the stupid things that you say, you back it up with a link or two? And do it in another thread, this one is about dead four year olds.Quote: AZDuffmanOK, show me where a liberal has proposed or/and supported requiring ID at the polls
Show me where the left supports purging voter rolls
Show me where Eric Holder prosecuted the Black Panthers instead of killing the investigation
Come on. Lets have more than simply saying "no, it isn't."
Face, I'm sorry for New York's kneejerk reaction. The bar needs to be set higher. I would think that being institutionalized for mental health would be the borderline for gun ownership, and only, say, in the past 5 years.
And yeah, the left does not support ID at the polls in general because it disenfranchises the lazy people from voting for the Dems. 11% of voting age Americans don't have ID, and they will vote (for the Dems). Yet on the other hand you demand PHOTO ID for voting (which is also a right) and therefore it's a barrier but you complain about having barriers for buying guns... you hypocrites!
The other valid argument is that very little voter fraud goes on... yep it happens however and given what happened in Florida when the Supreme Court got it right. Get a frickin' ID if you want to vote to make it fair for everyone. And Republcans who push for these ID bills, make it free for those who can't afford it.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhen has the left supported voter id and purging the rolls to keep them clean?
You mean when the Banana Republicans try to disrupt the voting often close to election time with voter purges and ID legislation?
Actually, you can challenge votes after elections and it will work just as well without the intimidation.
Can you unshoot people after the wrong person gets a gun. Nope. Can't fix that.
Quote: rxwineYou mean when the Banana Republicans try to disrupt the voting often close to election time with voter purges and ID legislation?
No, I mean they look between elections and purge the rolls. And I mean you show a state issued ID, which pretty much everyone has or can easily get so people don't just say they are someone and get to vote.
Quote:Actually, you can challenge votes after elections and it will work just as well without the intimidation.
Nonsense. The way to stop voter fraud is before it happens because after it happens you have no record of who voted for who.
Quote:Can you unshoot people after the wrong person gets a gun. Nope. Can't fix that.
Can't unstab them either, want to ban knives?
Quote: s2dbakerHow about instead of me having to disprove all of the stupid things that you say, you back it up with a link or two? And do it in another thread, this one is about dead four year olds.
Eric Holder dismisses Black Panther voter intimidation case.
LIberals sue to block voter ID law.
Obama Justice Dept sues to block voter purge
There you go, come on and try to disprove it by doing something more than saying "no it isn't."
While boymimbo and I do not agree on policy, at least I will give him credit that he posts a collected series of points to establish his position. Please try and do the same trying to establish your idea that liberals are not against Voter ID laws and clearing dead people and moved people off the voter rolls.
You posted links to Voter ID laws. That's not what you said liberals were against. You said that liberals were against ID at the polls, we're not against ID at the polls. Liberals are against targeted legislation that makes it harder to vote for certain groups like the elderly and the poor. When you vote you have to sign the voter rolls and that's all the ID that should be required. Disenfranchisement of certain groups that the party in power doesn't like is wrong and likely unconstitutional.Quote: AZDuffmanEric Holder dismisses Black Panther voter intimidation case.
LIberals sue to block voter ID law.
Obama Justice Dept sues to block voter purge
There you go, come on and try to disprove it by doing something more than saying "no it isn't."
While boymimbo and I do not agree on policy, at least I will give him credit that he posts a collected series of points to establish his position. Please try and do the same trying to establish your idea that liberals are not against Voter ID laws and clearing dead people and moved people off the voter rolls.
Quote: rxwineAnyway, are Repubicans going to stop inhibiting the right to vote before elections. Maybe just like guns, I, as a registered voter can vouch for my family member to be eligible to vote without an ID check?
The way to do elections right is you show ID at the polls on election day only, none of this early-voting nonsense. Republicans are not trying to stop anyone from voting, just saying it is supposed to require a little more effort than ordering a pizza. Which it should.
Quote: s2dbakerYou posted links to Voter ID laws. That's not what you said liberals were against. You said that liberals were against ID at the polls, we're not against ID at the polls.
uh, yes you are. That is what the ID laws you sue to block require.
Quote:Liberals are against targeted legislation that makes it harder to vote for certain groups like the elderly and the poor.
No law does that as virtually everyone has some form of ID. If "the poor" can find a way to get an ID for all the other things they need in life they can get one to vote. ID at the polls just prevents voter fraud, which is what liberals want to allow to happen based on their flimsy arguments against preventing it. Who can make it thru life with no ID?
Quote:When you vote you have to sign the voter rolls and that's all the ID that should be required. Disenfranchisement of certain groups that the party in power doesn't like is wrong and likely unconstitutional.
The only people "disenfranchised" by voter ID laws are the dead and those who wish to vote more than once. Like this Obama voter.
It should not. Ordering a pizza should be tougher than voting.Quote: AZDuffmanThe way to do elections right is you show ID at the polls on election day only, none of this early-voting nonsense. Republicans are not trying to stop anyone from voting, just saying it is supposed to require a little more effort than ordering a pizza. Which it should.
Quote: s2dbakerIt should not. Ordering a pizza should be tougher than voting.
Where is it written voting should take little to no effort?
We can find clues in the constitution:Quote: AZDuffmanWhere is it written voting should take little to no effort?
The 15th amendment as well.Quote: The 26th Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of AmericaSection 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Quote: AZDuffmanNo law does that as virtually everyone has some form of ID. If "the poor" can find a way to get an ID for all the other things they need in life they can get one to vote. ID at the polls just prevents voter fraud, which is what liberals want to allow to happen based on their flimsy arguments against preventing it. Who can make it thru life with no ID?
The only people "disenfranchised" by voter ID laws are the dead and those who wish to vote more than once. Like this Obama voter.
Or this Republican. It doesn't help when GOP folks throw away Democrat voter registration forms.
Should we really get into a pissing contest about voter registration. Really?
And yeah, it's your Constitution, but somehow it's okay to put restrictions on voting but it's not okay to put restrictions on owning a gun.
Quote: rxwine(yes, but you can still do investigations before and after on the voting process. You can google that.)
I can't think of a single election that has been reversed after a winner has been declared and the loser has conceded.
Quote: rxwineA nation of knives over guns, I can live with that.
So you're all right with people dying from knives, but not from guns? Huh??
Quote: boymimboAnd yeah, it's your Constitution, but somehow it's okay to put restrictions on voting but it's not okay to put restrictions on owning a gun.
We already have restrictions on owning guns. The point is that more restrictions aren't going to do anything to solve the problem. By contrast, there are virtually no restrictions on voting (other than taking a person's word that they are who they claim to be).
Quote: boymimbo
Should we really get into a pissing contest about voter registration. Really?
Trust me, you do not want to, as there is far more fraud on the liberal side.
Quote: s2dbakerWe can find clues in the constitution:
The 15th amendment as well.Quote: The 26th Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of AmericaSection 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
I've read the US Constitution many times and I do not see where there is a restriction saying you shall not have your right to vote denied because you cannot validate who you are when you vote.
Everyone has or can easily get a form of ID, but we cannot ask a voter to show it at the polls. However we have no problems requiring it for so many other things.
We agree. it's a mitzvah!! All voters have to sign their name before they vote which is a lot more secure than some ID that can be faked.Quote: AZDuffmanI've read the US Constitution many times and I do not see where there is a restriction saying you shall not have your right to vote denied because you cannot validate who you are when you vote.
Quote: s2dbakerWe agree. it's a mitzvah!! All voters have to sign their name before they vote which is a lot more secure than some ID that can be faked.
Well, you can fake a signed name as well, just register under a phony name show up. So why even have that? Heck, we all know the idea of even having elections is racist anyhow, so why not just let Gallup poll people and pick a winner from that?
Quote: s2dbakerWe agree. it's a mitzvah!! All voters have to sign their name before they vote which is a lot more secure than some ID that can be faked.
And he knows Hebrew!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This troll is a fucking superstar, I'm glad we are buddies, doing hoodrat shit together and all.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: s2dbakerWe can find clues in the constitution:
The 15th amendment as well.Quote: The 26th Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of AmericaSection 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
I've read the US Constitution many times and I do not see where there is a restriction saying you shall not have your right to vote denied because you cannot validate who you are when you vote.
Everyone has or can easily get a form of ID, but we cannot ask a voter to show it at the polls. However we have no problems requiring it for so many other things.
Looks like he highlighted the wrong part. :)
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: s2dbakerWe can find clues in the constitution:
The 15th amendment as well.Quote: The 26th Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of AmericaSection 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
I've read the US Constitution many times and I do not see where there is a restriction saying you shall not have your right to vote denied because you cannot validate who you are when you vote.
Everyone has or can easily get a form of ID, but we cannot ask a voter to show it at the polls. However we have no problems requiring it for so many other things.
Looks like he highlighted the wrong part. :)
Wow can't believe I missed that.
That actually doesn't happen.Quote: AZDuffmanWell, you can fake a signed name as well, just register under a phony name show up
Quote: s2dbakerThat actually doesn't happen.
Actually plenty of liberal groups have gotten caught putting names like "Mickey Mouse" on application forms. Surely plenty of more realistic fake names got through.
Do you get any real news or live by what MSNBC tells you?
Did Mickey Mouse or any of those other fake names get registered and then show up to vote? I await you links.Quote: AZDuffmanActually plenty of liberal groups have gotten caught putting names like "Mickey Mouse" on application forms. Surely plenty of more realistic fake names got through.
Do you get any real news or live by what MSNBC tells you?
Quote: s2dbakerDid Mickey Mouse or any of those other fake names get registered and then show up to vote? I await you links.
I already provided a link showing voter fraud.
Since we do not require ID to vote it could go on for years v Nd it probably does in many precincts.
Pull your head out if the sand, it must be hard to breathe down there.
Only in Reactionaryland does Mickey Mouse vote. You havent linked to a single case where Mickey Mouse voted.Quote: AZDuffmanI already provided a link showing voter fraud.
Since we do not require ID to vote it could go on for years v Nd it probably does in many precincts.
Pull your head out if the sand, it must be hard to breathe down there.
491 cases of absentee voter fraud
400 cases of registration fraud
263 cases of casting an inelibible vote
150 cases of double voting
119 cases of petition fraud
97 cases of vote buying
74 cases of felons casting illegal votes
56 non citizens casting votes
44 cases of campaign fraud
23 cases of falsifying election results
22 cases of procedural errors
21 cases of intimidation
10 cases of voter inpersonation. TEN.
Shall we go through each case over the past 13 years, or should we get back on topic?
Quote: boymimbo2,068 cases of election fraud since 2000. 2000+ gun deaths since NewTown.
491 cases of absentee voter fraud
400 cases of registration fraud
263 cases of casting an inelibible vote
150 cases of double voting
119 cases of petition fraud
97 cases of vote buying
74 cases of felons casting illegal votes
56 non citizens casting votes
44 cases of campaign fraud
23 cases of falsifying election results
22 cases of procedural errors
21 cases of intimidation
10 cases of voter inpersonation. TEN.
Shall we go through each case over the past 13 years, or should we get back on topic?
I'm sure s2dbaker is just dropping the kids off at the pool, so I will answer for us.
Yes.
Each one. You do the work though, and we will just laugh about it and say you are wrong.
Quote: s2dbakerOnly in Reactionaryland does Mickey Mouse vote. You havent linked to a single case where Mickey Mouse voted.
You need to re-read it. I didn't say Mickey Mouse votes. I said liberal groups tried to register Mickey Mouse. And I said if they try that who knows how many other names they might have made up. Say they register "Gordon Gibson" and he shows up to vote, no ID required. Would take a lot of work to root that out, would it not?
It has been proven that there is no logical reason not to have ID to vote, only "reason" is fake charges of disenfranchisement.
I mean, if liberals can guide people to sign up for every government program under the sun, they can show them how to get an ID.
Quote: boymimbo2,068 cases of election fraud since 2000. 2000+ gun deaths since NewTown.
491 cases of absentee voter fraud
400 cases of registration fraud
263 cases of casting an inelibible vote
150 cases of double voting
119 cases of petition fraud
97 cases of vote buying
74 cases of felons casting illegal votes
56 non citizens casting votes
44 cases of campaign fraud
23 cases of falsifying election results
22 cases of procedural errors
21 cases of intimidation
10 cases of voter inpersonation. TEN.
Shall we go through each case over the past 13 years, or should we get back on topic?
Implying that voter fraud is detected and prosecuted at a similar rate as murder.
So we've established through lack of any evidence that there is no voter fraud of any significance (except in Reactionaryland where everything is a liberal conspiracy that the liberals never seem to be away of) and therefor no need for disruptive and targeted voter disenfranchisement laws. I think we should get back on topic as well. This story doesn't tell us how old the future son-in-law is but if I were that lady, I'd reconsider marrying the schmuck's father.Quote: AZDuffmanYou need to re-read it. I didn't say Mickey Mouse votes. I said liberal groups tried to register Mickey Mouse. And I said if they try that who knows how many other names they might have made up. Say they register "Gordon Gibson" and he shows up to vote, no ID required. Would take a lot of work to root that out, would it not?
It has been proven that there is no logical reason not to have ID to vote, only "reason" is fake charges of disenfranchisement.
I mean, if liberals can guide people to sign up for every government program under the sun, they can show them how to get an ID.
Absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, election rigging, and shitty voting machines are far bigger problems then VOTER fraud.
We can bring up Nathan Sproul, the republican hero and his firm Strategic Allied Consulting (paid by the Republican party to register voters, his firm changed voter registrations from Democrat to Republican). Or Colin Small. Or Charlie White.
The only thing that ID laws will do is stop Democrats from voting. Just ask AZ's Republican House Leader, Mike Turzai, who claimed that the voting laws would allow Romney to win Pennsylvania. Think about those who don't have ID: Students (15% don't have ID), the Elderly (18%), and blacks (25%). Who do they vote for?
Rather than spending your resources and time screaming that the election was stolen by voter fraud (when very little exists, certainly not enough to overturn any state's result (save perhaps Florida's in 2000), why not fix the damned machines, or clean up the easy absentee voter fraud, or stop paying firms to register voters and make it a bipartisan government run operation.
But if anyone doesn't believe me, read this from Forbes
Quote: boymimboAbsentee ballot fraud, vote buying, election rigging, and shitty voting machines are far bigger problems then VOTER fraud.
Huh?? Those things are voter fraud.
Quote: boymimboThe only thing that ID laws will do is stop Democrats from voting.
Exactly. Illegal Democrats, dead Democrats, imaginary Democrats, etc. None of them should ever be able to vote.
Quote: boymimbo
The only thing that ID laws will do is stop Democrats from voting. Just ask AZ's Republican House Leader, Mike Turzai, who claimed that the voting laws would allow Romney to win Pennsylvania. Think about those who don't have ID: Students (15% don't have ID), the Elderly (18%), and blacks (25%). Who do they vote for?
ID laws will keep dead Democrats from voting. And keep them from voting more than once.
I find in hard to believe even 5% of any of these groups do not have ID, and if they don't they simply should be told to get one to vote. Having a photo-ID is something you have to do to be a responsible adult.
Quote: s2dbakerSo we've established through lack of any evidence that there is no voter fraud of any significance (except in Reactionaryland where everything is a liberal conspiracy that the liberals never seem to be away of) and therefor no need for disruptive and targeted voter disenfranchisement laws. I think we should get back on topic as well. This story doesn't tell us how old the future son-in-law is but if I were that lady, I'd reconsider marrying the schmuck's father.
Actually what we have established is voter fraud is a problem and everyone has an ID or can get one so there is no reason not to require it at the polls. But back to your topic, we need to ban lawn mowers!
Thoughts: why do I need a photo ID between the ages of 18 and 21, if I don't drive or travel? I can't drink, and student IDs don't require photos so why would I pay for an ID.
The issue isn't that dead people vote or that people vote more than once. I like how I put up the actual stats of the cases of election fraud by type and it just completely goes over your head, because you want to believe that the election was thrown because that's what Rush, Hannity and Fox news told you, and you happily believe that the 2000 Florida election results were bang on, too, because that's what the Supreme court told you.
2000 cases in 6 election cycles, folks. 110,000,000 million voters each election. Yet this is an issue.
Quote: boymimboYou don't have to be a responsible adult to vote. You just have to be an adult.
Not true. You have to be a citizen of the United States in order to vote, not "just an adult".
Quote: boymimboInteresting. You can happily dictate that "having a photo-ID" is something you have to do yet it's fine for anyone to have a gun, ID or not. Hypocrite. You don't have to be a responsible adult to vote. You just have to be an adult.
Thoughts: why do I need a photo ID between the ages of 18 and 21, if I don't drive or travel? I can't drink, and student IDs don't require photos so why would I pay for an ID.
If you want to have a job or open any kind of bank account you need to have ID. That alone puts to rest the nonsense that students don't have IDs.
Quote:2000 cases in 6 election cycles, folks. 110,000,000 million voters each election. Yet this is an issue.
That is only what is caught. So why not just ask for ID as everyone has them anyways?
Everyone is required to sign their name in front of an election official. That kind of ID is not easily faked.Quote: AZDuffmanSo why not just ask for ID as everyone has them anyways?
Quote: s2dbakerEveryone is required to sign their name in front of an election official. That kind of ID is not easily faked.
It is if the registration was faked.
Just bring your ID. What's the big deal?
