Boz
Boz
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April 10th, 2013 at 6:18:48 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, I saw that one. I don't think it is in dispute that with the aid of a camera and computer clocking roulette could be done.



What are the number of spins or time needed clocking a dealer to make it feasable?
Zcore13
Zcore13
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April 10th, 2013 at 6:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You're undoubtedly right. But these days it could be done, perhaps.

the Eudomonics team used a cumbersome system which required inputs by a player, and used relays to indicate the result (I think it gave an octant number). That was the state of the art back then. These days it might be possible to conceal a camera and a display in a pair of glasses, and to relay inputs and results with bluetooth. Not to mention today's gear is a lot more reliable.

There was a Mission: Impossible! episode, in the show's first run in the 60s, using such a strategem. The gear was impossibly compact for the time (it fit in Cinnamon's everning clutch) and displyed the exact number (on a calendar watch, no less!). Dramatization and exaggeration aside, it was perfectly feasible as science fiction. (great show, BTW).

In fact I'd be surprised is no one else has attempted something similar since the late 60s or early 70s until now. Even with manual inputs, it could be done with relative ease if you posses the know-how.



You are exactly right on probably being able to incorporate it. That's why casinos are already talking about banning things like Google Glasses before they even come out. I'm sure someone could incorporate the computers and radars needed into cell phones, but it wouldn't take long to figure out what was happening.

One thing that people that study the human mind and science fiction type stuff all agree on... if the human mind can imagine it, it can be done at some point when technology catches up. The mind is always ahead of technology. If it can be thought of, it's possible. If it's not possible, it can't be imagined.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Doc
Doc
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April 10th, 2013 at 7:01:39 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

If it's not possible, it can't be imagined.


A nice lead in for arguments about paradoxes like backward time travel: "Is it possible for someone to invent a time machine capable of backward travel and have someone from the future travel to the past and murder the inventor before he discovers the invention? Would that make the device disappear?"
Zcore13
Zcore13
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April 10th, 2013 at 7:10:23 PM permalink
I'm not sure anyone could win that argument until sometime in the future, probably long after we are gone. I'm thinking the impossible thought of the Star Trek creator 60 years ago about being able to transport something from one place to another is not all that far away. Totally and ridiculously impossible back when he thought about it... not so out of the realm now.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 10th, 2013 at 10:23:01 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

You are exactly right on probably being able to incorporate it. That's why casinos are already talking about banning things like Google Glasses before they even come out. I'm sure someone could incorporate the computers and radars needed into cell phones, but it wouldn't take long to figure out what was happening.


I think it would be a good technology experiment to try to clock a roulette wheel using just an iPhone's camera and an app (no typing or data entry). Is it possible to capture and analyze video fast enough to run the necessary orbital decay computations? It would obviously be illegal (in NV, a felony) to actually use it, but it would be a great demonstration if it worked. There must be someone out there who's already tried it...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
chickenman
chickenman
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April 11th, 2013 at 3:46:45 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

A nice lead in for arguments about paradoxes like backward time travel: "Is it possible for someone to invent a time machine capable of backward travel and have someone from the future travel to the past and murder the inventor before he discovers the invention? Would that make the device disappear?"



Yes, this is a twist on the "Grandfather paradox" going back 70 years to a book by Rene Barjavel. Very interesting exercise for the mind :)
Nareed
Nareed
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April 11th, 2013 at 6:39:14 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

That's why casinos are already talking about banning things like Google Glasses before they even come out.



That's a bit too obvious. if I were planning such a thing, I'd use regular prescription glasses to begin with, or sunglasses.

Quote:

I'm sure someone could incorporate the computers and radars needed into cell phones, but it wouldn't take long to figure out what was happening.



Or rather things that look like cell phones? A dedicated computer wouldn't be too expensive, after all. The thing is, you could also make it look like any number of things. Say a cigarette pack, or a compact, or a tablet, or a tin of breath mints, etc.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Ahigh
Ahigh
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April 11th, 2013 at 8:19:40 AM permalink
There are a couple of deep pocket tables, but I don't know any deep pocket single zero tables around.

I think that there is a thread that the Wizard started about this topic though.

I'm just hung up on any advantage player of any game trying to overcome any edge over 1.00% much less 5.26% on double zero.

Roulette would be a lot more fun to me if the edge were not so high. That's why I don't play it at all.
vendman1
vendman1
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April 11th, 2013 at 8:21:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, I saw that one. I don't think it is in dispute that with the aid of a camera and computer clocking roulette could be done.



So just to sum up...I think we could both agree that roulette AP would be possible with computer/mechanical aids. Which I'm sure are illegal everywhere. But that gaining an advantage in the real world is impractical/very difficult with the naked eye, and/or a lot of practice.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 11th, 2013 at 9:02:39 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I'm just hung up on any advantage player of any game trying to overcome any edge over 1.00% much less 5.26% on double zero.


It's not a question of the absolute edge, it's a question of how far the edge moves with a little bit of effort. Lucky Ladies is a side bet for blackjack with one of the stiffest edges around -- over 24%. But it's also *very* countable because a little knowledge goes a long way. Eliot Jacobson and Stephen How have spent lots of time publishing how to beat proprietary side bets by counting, many of which are in the 5-10% range, but because the EORs are so large it doesn't take much. Roulette is similar: the "EOR" of a single number is enormous. If you can rule out half of the wheel even once every 10 spins (about every 12-15 minutes), you still have an edge. Quick quiz: what is that edge if you bet on half the wheel (double-zero) and one out of ten times a number in your half is guaranteed?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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