Flipping Vegas
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These bozo's buy a distressed property and fix it
up and flip it for a profit.
This guy pays $15K for a two bedroom condo thats
been trashed inside. He figures $8k to make it right
and he'll resell it for $35K. He looks it up on the net
and its pre crash value was $287K.
Is this right? Property values have declined that far
in Vegas now? I don't know anywhere you can buy
a refurbished two bedroom condo that cheap. But
you can in Vegas? It blows the mind..
Quote: EvenBob
Is this right? Property values have declined that far
in Vegas now?
Well, yes and no Bob. Property values in Vegas are way way down from pre-real estate crash levels. In December 2009, I bought a condo in a highrise a block off the strip, right behind Bally's (flamingo and koval) for $87,000. The unit I bought sold for $320,000, 3 years prior when the property was built in 2006. That is a decline in value of 75% in 3 years, and this was a brand new very modern property.
Now here's the no part. Unlike the property that I just described, some properties that are listed as condominiums in Vegas, are not what you think of when you think condo. Some are 50 year old cheap motel buildings that have been turned into "condos". The use of the term 'condo' is very liberal to say the least.
To give you an idea of what I am talking about, here is a picture of Chalet Vegas Condos, across the street from Hard Rock Casino.
http://condocompare.com/NV/Las-Vegas-condos/CHALET-VEGAS.aspx
Quote: GiorgioFromYumaProbably the safest bet in Vegas is buying some real estate and holding until the market recovers.
The Vegas real estate market is going to be a very long time recovering. First of all, before the real estate market crash, they severely over built. Vegas had been growing by leaps and bounds for a decade from mid 90s to mid 2000's and they figured this trend would not stop, so they just kept building. But Las Vegas population growth has stopped or at least slowed to a crawl and even without the foreclosure problem there would be too many vacant available properties. The market is far larger than demand and that would keep prices low. But now you add in the foreclosure problem. Las Vegas was one of the worst hit cities as far as foreclosures. During the decade, I previously referenced, they were putting people in homes that they could not afford. Many of those homes have now been foreclosed on and are sitting vacant. They aren't even on the market because the market is already saturated with homes for sale. There is just a backlog of properties just waiting to go on sale. That will keep the market low for years to come.
Further complicating things is that the economy in Vegas will be one of the last areas of the country to really improve. As of jan 2013, Nevada was dead last in the country with the highest unemployment rate still over 10%. There just are no jobs. With so many folks out of work, how are they going to buy houses? I don't see the Vegas market changing anytime soon.
I personally, sold my condo last spring and am currently renting. I am looking at buying a house. It would seem a great time to buy if you have the money and I do. You can get a real good deal, or what looks like a real good deal. A lot of house for your money, especially if you are coming from California or Chicago or one of the east coast city markets and are comparing prices to those markets. BUT, that property isn't going to increase in value any time soon. So, if you are looking to buy a property, you better be in it for the long haul.
Even here in PA I saw an outfit selling distressed properties but all you got was a quit-claim deed. So the day after you signed and paid you might find you had a partner you never heard of.
Realty matters very little to those who are involved in producing television shows. THEY GOTTA EAT YA KNOW!
Quote: BeardgoatThose shows are definitely bull shit. I know a guy that has been flipping houses in Arizona for about 5 years. There is a show similar to the Vegas one about Arizona houses and he just laughs about how fake it is.
There is some cable show on where they take cars out of a junkyard and restore them for sale. Some are antique classics but one on the episode I saw was just a late 1990s Lexus. I was watching with my dad and after five minutes I said, "This is nothing but 'Storage Wars' in a Junkyard." Took him about 15 mins longer but he agreed.
It still fit my statement that Reality TV needs to be watched with the same mentality as professional wrestling. 98% is fake, 2% is real but you can enjoy the show. This car show is no "American Restoration" as it really glossed over the work to be done. I enjoy AR because Rick Dale seems to actually know what he is doing and you learn a few things. This one the subjects sounded like they would not be able to spell "car" if you spotted them the "c" and "a."
But on a lower-tier cable channel I suppose if you can produce a 30 min show for $25,000 you can make money.
Yeah, one property was sold for 110,000 and the new "owner" found out the city intended not only to raze it but to charge him thirty grand to do it. Turns out he had a quit claim deed, a seller who took the money and fled the state and a property that two separate city web sites had already listed as structurally unsound and destined to be razed at owner expense. He not only chose to accept a quit claim deed and become the owner who had to pay the demolition cost, he chose to pay 110,000 to buy the "property". All he ever bought was a lawsuit he had no chance of winning. In Vegas, some of those foreclosed properties may or may not have been foreclosed at all much less legally foreclosed.Quote: AZDuffmanI was told ... there were condos in FL that were used in various scams and could be had for just $4,000 because nobody was sure who had clear title and it would take years to get enough quiet-title motions settled.
"Even here in PA I saw an outfit selling distressed properties but all you got was a quit-claim deed."
Yeah, saw on TV the other day about someone who got a quit claim deed to his new home and three weeks later (after sinking all his available cash in repairs and improvements) got a twenty-four hour eviction notice from the bank that owned it. He had his quit claim deed and all his receipts and all his other belongings piled up in the front yard with no place to go and no money to get there. And the TV crew that filmed him didn't even buy him a drink.
For a long time the only "flippers" who made money were those who really knew basic construction and repair, knew which repairs would pay off, had contacts and equipment themselves and could get the work done quickly. All these shows depicting naive investors selecting real bargains and getting repairs done by top notch firms were largely fakes. Heck, most of those re-design shows used "budgets" that were bereft of labor charges and had fifty percent discounts from the design stores that got the free advertising. When has any "real" homeowner been able to walk into a local flooring store and get a job done with fifty percent off the merchandise and zero charged for delivery as well as zero charged for installation and waste removal? It happens on TV because the shows are cheap to make and bring in alot of money for the producers.
Quote: aceofspadesA reality tv show ruined my firm's business. The golden goose was painted over with lead-based paint.
What happened?
Quote: aceofspadesA reality tv show ruined my firm's business. The golden goose was painted over with lead-based paint.
Yeah come on ace, can't leave us hanging like that...
Quote: FleaStiff
For a long time the only "flippers" who made money were those who really knew basic construction and repair, knew which repairs would pay off, had contacts and equipment themselves and could get the work done quickly. All these shows depicting naive investors selecting real bargains and getting repairs done by top notch firms were largely fakes. Heck, most of those re-design shows used "budgets" that were bereft of labor charges and had fifty percent discounts from the design stores that got the free advertising. When has any "real" homeowner been able to walk into a local flooring store and get a job done with fifty percent off the merchandise and zero charged for delivery as well as zero charged for installation and waste removal? It happens on TV because the shows are cheap to make and bring in alot of money for the producers.
Totally true. I have halfway seriously talked to a kid of a friend of my mother's who did some construction for me about it. He knows construction and I know title searching and insurance. I just said if I find a place we could split roles and split profits, but I don't see much happening.
The biggest joke is the short-sale bargain. People think if they buy for less than is owed they are getting a deal. They think the banks are stupid and give away these properties. I have explained the facts of life on this to more than one person.
If you want a deal in real estate there are ways to do it, but 95% of the time you must find the property pre-forclosure and you need to have CASH to buy from the bank. Otherwise you are just buying a property, doesn't matter who the seller is, the ,market determines the price.
question was, are properties that were worth $287,000
before the crash really selling for $35,000 now? I knew
things were bad, but thats ridiculous.
Gaming the housing market is an American obsession. I would watch a show called "flipping disasters".... Watching a "flipper" get his ass handed to him would be awesome!Quote: EvenBobI have no doubt the show is 100% fake, I don't care. My
question was, are properties that were worth $287,000
before the crash really selling for $35,000 now? I knew
things were bad, but thats ridiculous.
Quote: AZDuffman
If you want a deal in real estate there are ways to do it, but 95% of the time you must find the property pre-foreclosure and you need to have CASH to buy from the bank. Otherwise you are just buying a property, doesn't matter who the seller is, the ,market determines the price.
May I suggest that the market determines what the price should be but emotions, ignorance and outright lies often determine what the actual price is. I've heard buyers ask about Fair Market Value only to have a Realtor respond with a dollar figure for a Fair Market Price and the ignorant buyer sits there thinking his question has been answered because he has no idea that Fair Market Price and Fair Market Value are totally different concepts. Long ago I heard one salesman double the property's square footage in less than two minutes: he told me the truth then his buyers arrived and he told them the lie. And recently some whole-sale flipping has been going on in Florida where condos sell in the early morning at one price and in the early afternoon at woefully inflated prices. Did the value of the property nearly double in a few hours?
Is it really possible to determine what fair valueQuote: FleaStiffMay I suggest that the market determines what the price should be but emotions, ignorance and outright lies often determine what the actual price is. I've heard buyers ask about Fair Market Value only to have a Realtor respond with a dollar figure for a Fair Market Price and the ignorant buyer sits there thinking his question has been answered because he has no idea that Fair Market Price and Fair Market Value are totally different concepts. Long ago I heard one salesman double the property's square footage in less than two minutes: he told me the truth then his buyers arrived and he told them the lie. And recently some whole-sale flipping has been going on in Florida where condos sell in the early morning at one price and in the early afternoon at woefully inflated prices. Did the value of the property nearly double in a few hours?
/market value is when the Feds are guaranteeing 90-95% of mortgages?
Quote: FleaStiffMay I suggest that the market determines what the price should be but emotions, ignorance and outright lies often determine what the actual price is. I've heard buyers ask about Fair Market Value only to have a Realtor respond with a dollar figure for a Fair Market Price and the ignorant buyer sits there thinking his question has been answered because he has no idea that Fair Market Price and Fair Market Value are totally different concepts. Long ago I heard one salesman double the property's square footage in less than two minutes: he told me the truth then his buyers arrived and he told them the lie. And recently some whole-sale flipping has been going on in Florida where condos sell in the early morning at one price and in the early afternoon at woefully inflated prices. Did the value of the property nearly double in a few hours?
You don't want to know some of what I have seen honeowners claim for increasing value. My favorite was the guy said he had a better view so his identical town home was worth more.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou don't want to know some of what I have seen honeowners claim for increasing value. My favorite was the guy said he had a better view so his identical town home was worth more.
That is probably true AZD. Some but not all buyers would probably pay a nominal amount for a better view. Higher suites in towers get more because of the view. Lots of guests will pay more for a hotel room with a better view ie strip versus mountains.
Quote: EvenBobI have no doubt the show is 100% fake, I don't care. My
question was, are properties that were worth $287,000
before the crash really selling for $35,000 now? I knew
things were bad, but thats ridiculous.
The market is up about 25% from the low so I seriously doubt that unless it is seriously damaged. Even the homes in the alphabets only ran up to about $200k. Those are selling in the 50-60k now.
Quote: PokeraddictThe market is up about 25% from the low so I seriously doubt that unless it is seriously damaged. Even the homes in the alphabets only ran up to about $200k. Those are selling in the 50-60k now.
They lie about everything on these shows. It was probably
a $140K condo thats selling for 35K.
. Air time is valuable, so they would have friends or relatives show up with valuable stuff from the appraiser's own shop.
