Total Rewards Revamping
January 4th, 2013 at 1:14:26 PM
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If I recall correctly there was a thread a few weeks ago about rumored changes to CET's total rewards program. Which they were denying. Well guess what I got in the mail today.
Starting in 2014(Yes 2014 not this year)...the 4 tiers will be as follows:
Gold- starter
Platinum- 5,000 Tier Credits
Diamond- 15,000 Tier Credits
Seven Stars 150,000 Tier Credits
The mailers claims that Tier Credits will be "easier to earn" because of a new bonus system as follows:
Earn 500 TC's in a day get 125 Bonus TC's
1000 TC's get 1000 Bonus
2500 TC's get 5000 Bonus.
There is also going to be something called Diamond II at 40,000 and Diamond III at 80,000....so start gambling.
I'm going to sit back have a beer and watch the tide (of comments) roll in.
Starting in 2014(Yes 2014 not this year)...the 4 tiers will be as follows:
Gold- starter
Platinum- 5,000 Tier Credits
Diamond- 15,000 Tier Credits
Seven Stars 150,000 Tier Credits
The mailers claims that Tier Credits will be "easier to earn" because of a new bonus system as follows:
Earn 500 TC's in a day get 125 Bonus TC's
1000 TC's get 1000 Bonus
2500 TC's get 5000 Bonus.
There is also going to be something called Diamond II at 40,000 and Diamond III at 80,000....so start gambling.
I'm going to sit back have a beer and watch the tide (of comments) roll in.
January 4th, 2013 at 1:22:06 PM
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Vendman1 you beat me to the post, I was just going to ask if anyone knew what was happening.
It looks like 7-stars will be easy to get 20 trips @ 2500 points + 5k bonus per day =150k tier, while you only earned 50k with the current system. I have a hard time seeing them keeping the rewards the same.
What will they cut to make it work?
It looks like 7-stars will be easy to get 20 trips @ 2500 points + 5k bonus per day =150k tier, while you only earned 50k with the current system. I have a hard time seeing them keeping the rewards the same.
What will they cut to make it work?
January 4th, 2013 at 2:03:55 PM
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My understanding is tier bonus credits do not count toward Seven Stars 150,000 points.
January 4th, 2013 at 2:27:57 PM
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I think the changes start now. Your current status is valid until April 2014 though. I would check the mailer again.
January 4th, 2013 at 3:02:56 PM
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I agree, the changes start now, according to the flyer I got.Quote: tringlomaneI think the changes start now. Your current status is valid until April 2014 though. I would check the mailer again.
YouCanBetOnThat.com, a podcast for the recreational gambler
January 4th, 2013 at 3:08:42 PM
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I know the new bonus credits do to count towards doing Diamond In a Day so you will will need 5000 points in a day to get it. Otherwise, two sessions of 2500 points will get you Diamond status because you will receive and extra 10000 tier credits for doing it in two separate days.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
January 4th, 2013 at 3:47:56 PM
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Yeah, the accruing of TC's under the new system begins now and your status is good till 2014.
January 4th, 2013 at 5:42:23 PM
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Does anyone have any insight into what sort of table game play results in 2500 TC's? Ballpark?
January 4th, 2013 at 6:11:19 PM
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Quote: PapaChubbyDoes anyone have any insight into what sort of table game play results in 2500 TC's? Ballpark?
Well, New Year's morning I played craps for 3 hours. When I checked with pit, he said he had my average bet "north of $300". Now for how long he had that, I do not know. Later I played Pai Gow Poker for 4 hours at $25 per hand. Finally, I played craps again that night for 4 hours. I did not check my rating, but it should have been $90 or so, but who knows what they rated it at. For that play I got about 3,400 points in total.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
January 4th, 2013 at 7:07:41 PM
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Based on my experience, I'd say for most of the games you'd have to play $100 or greater. Similar discussions of even 10 hrs of $15 play in BJ have only resulted in 500 TCs. UTH or Crazy 4 poker may be another story, but I'd think a min of $25-50 even at those would be necessary to hit the 2500 Tcs for Tables wtihout having a marathon session. Total Rewards really seems to be going after the $1 and up VP player or the dedicated slot junkie with this revamp.
-B
-B
January 4th, 2013 at 8:56:49 PM
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I can see this working out 2 ways for CZR. One way will have slot players chasing the next level by playing longer each day to get the bonus points and making more trips to the ATM. Or players will play more one day on a 3-5 day trip to get the bonus instead of playing equally each day.
January 4th, 2013 at 9:23:34 PM
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Basically, this encourages the recreational player to move up to the next level. Since I enjoy gambling, but not for the full day, I average 500 RC a day, with three hours of play. This encourages me to concentrate play on one day, where I am more likely to make mistakes due to a long session, or to move up a level from a $1 VP player to a $2 or $5 player, in order to hit that 1,000 RC benchmark. But, once I hit 1,000 RC, as a recreational player I am likely to keep the hot streak or try to chase back those losses. It's ingenious on the part of Caesars, I have to grant them that. If I do it right I can get Platinum, with enough line cutting privileges over the hoi polloi, with 25% less play than before, but I have to watch my rewards credits. Considering that I get rooms any time on low and mid end Caesars properties, including weekends and during CES, with just the 500 RC play it encourages more loyalty. Well played.
January 4th, 2013 at 11:42:51 PM
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Quote: calwatchBasically, this encourages the recreational player to move up to the next level. Since I enjoy gambling, but not for the full day, I average 500 RC a day, with three hours of play. This encourages me to concentrate play on one day, where I am more likely to make mistakes due to a long session, or to move up a level from a $1 VP player to a $2 or $5 player, in order to hit that 1,000 RC benchmark. But, once I hit 1,000 RC, as a recreational player I am likely to keep the hot streak or try to chase back those losses. It's ingenious on the part of Caesars, I have to grant them that. If I do it right I can get Platinum, with enough line cutting privileges over the hoi polloi, with 25% less play than before, but I have to watch my rewards credits. Considering that I get rooms any time on low and mid end Caesars properties, including weekends and during CES, with just the 500 RC play it encourages more loyalty. Well played.
Yeah, if you are a player at a level that averages 500 Tier/day previously, I would make a bigger effort to play fewer days at CET and play 1000 Tier/day, the bonus is so much more. And like you say, I think this is a good adjustment for the players they are targeting (long-term players that don't play live poker).
January 5th, 2013 at 2:36:31 AM
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A couple of things: I've been following this for a couple of weeks on my Forum. I think it sucks but it's clear what is going on: by raising tier scores, CZR is cutting back on comps and offers for many more players. It's raising the price of admission, so to speak.
Im not going to be effected so it's not sour grapes on my part. In 2012 I had more than 500,000 tier points. But they are doing this to cut perks and benefits. Personally I hate the way it is in Vegas -- I call it the Caesars Caste System with special lines for Diamonds and 7Stars, and sometimes just for 7Stars. Ive been at the cage at Caesars when 20 people are in line for a cashier but the 7Stars cashier is chatting it up with the person at the window AFTER their business has been conducted. It's just plain rude. 7Stars and Diamond players are no better than anyone else.
Sure comps should be awarded be awarded based on play, but this "caste system" has got to go. If ever I am in a "7 stars line" at the cage or a restaurant and I see elderly folks or someone disabled waiting -- I always tell whoever (hostess, manager, 7stars cashier) to "take them first."
My other gripe is with the rating of table game play. It's a secret how they do it, and Im not trying to be smug but it really is a secret. How it is computed has never been revealed. Even on the total rewards website it says it varies with the game and denomination and bets.
Im not going to be effected so it's not sour grapes on my part. In 2012 I had more than 500,000 tier points. But they are doing this to cut perks and benefits. Personally I hate the way it is in Vegas -- I call it the Caesars Caste System with special lines for Diamonds and 7Stars, and sometimes just for 7Stars. Ive been at the cage at Caesars when 20 people are in line for a cashier but the 7Stars cashier is chatting it up with the person at the window AFTER their business has been conducted. It's just plain rude. 7Stars and Diamond players are no better than anyone else.
Sure comps should be awarded be awarded based on play, but this "caste system" has got to go. If ever I am in a "7 stars line" at the cage or a restaurant and I see elderly folks or someone disabled waiting -- I always tell whoever (hostess, manager, 7stars cashier) to "take them first."
My other gripe is with the rating of table game play. It's a secret how they do it, and Im not trying to be smug but it really is a secret. How it is computed has never been revealed. Even on the total rewards website it says it varies with the game and denomination and bets.
January 5th, 2013 at 6:04:28 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonI call it the Caesars Caste System with special lines for Diamonds and 7Stars, and sometimes just for 7Stars. Ive been at the cage at Caesars when 20 people are in line for a cashier but the 7Stars cashier is chatting it up with the person at the window AFTER their business has been conducted. It's just plain rude. 7Stars and Diamond players are no better than anyone else.
I agree that the Caesars Caste System is archaic, which is why I typically avoid eating at all Caesars properties. Where else on earth would this work? Gas stations with special SUV lanes? Fat people get special treatment at restaurants? Fema helping those who pay more taxes first? I wonder when they'll start asking 'Gold' members to sit in the back of the bus? Stop it. I don't think customer service should be a 'comp'.
January 5th, 2013 at 6:24:47 AM
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Quote: megapixelsI don't think customer service should be a 'comp'.
THAT IS EXCELLENT!! And I hope some 22 year old MBA at Caesars who never made a bet in a casino in his/her life reads that.
January 5th, 2013 at 7:11:58 AM
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Quote: megapixelsI agree that the Caesars Caste System is archaic, which is why I typically avoid eating at all Caesars properties. Where else on earth would this work?
--> Gas stations with special SUV lanes?
--> Fat people get special treatment at restaurants?
--> Fema helping those who pay more taxes first?
--> I wonder when they'll start asking 'Gold' members to sit in the back of the bus?
Stop it. I don't think customer service should be a 'comp'.
--> Remember Even/Odd, Red/Yellow/Green for gas lines, and now it's Even/Odd addresses & days for watering your lawn!
--> Fat people eat for free at Heart Attack Grill!
--> I wasn't eligible for FEMA aide (tornado) because I have insurance!
--> On the intra-casino shuttles, Gold members *do* get on last.
P.S. After a disaster, I discovered that Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are more charitable than Christians -- No Strings Attached.
January 5th, 2013 at 7:28:17 AM
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Quote: megapixelsI agree that the Caesars Caste System is archaic, which is why I typically avoid eating at all Caesars properties. Where else on earth would this work? Gas stations with special SUV lanes? Fat people get special treatment at restaurants? Fema helping those who pay more taxes first? I wonder when they'll start asking 'Gold' members to sit in the back of the bus? Stop it. I don't think customer service should be a 'comp'.
In AC, the shuttle bus that Caesars runs to all 4 properties, has a boarding policy of Diamond/7Stars first (they get to jump the line). Then everybody else. If you are gold you have to show a room ticket proving you are staying at one of the hotels currently. If the bus fills up (and it does on weekends). You may have to wait for the next one. So they already are "asking Gold members to sit in the back of the bus" literally.
January 5th, 2013 at 10:42:01 AM
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As a long term Diamond card holder in the TR program, I can say that learning about the new system is kind of irking me...
HOWEVER, if you shuffle through my older posts, this wasn't unpredicted. I figured CET would up the ante for the higher tiers, though I think they're going about the bonus tier credits in an interesting manner. However, a 3000-4000 point jump for current Diamond member is significant. I can earn 1000 points a day in Tunica, as they have a lot of 9-6 JoB machines, but that's provided I don't go on a nasty losing streak, which currently I am in.
2013 has the potential to be the first year I don't secure Diamond status with CET since 2005. The closest CET property is 2 hours away (which is closer than where I lived the past 3 years) but the VP offerings at Joliet are awful. Horseshoe Hammond has 9-6 JoB in Dollars on a progressive nonetheless, but my bankroll is a bit tight to afford that all the time. My work schedule prevents me from capitalizing on weekday offers, and I'm forced to go on weekends where I can't get a hotel room for free.
As far as the debate about the TR program caste system, frankly, I'm fine with it. There are few casinos where higher card holders DON'T have privileged status. I try to concentrate my play at specific casinos for that reason. I know how the system works, and until this year, Diamond status had a lot of perks. We'll see where it goes after this.
HOWEVER, if you shuffle through my older posts, this wasn't unpredicted. I figured CET would up the ante for the higher tiers, though I think they're going about the bonus tier credits in an interesting manner. However, a 3000-4000 point jump for current Diamond member is significant. I can earn 1000 points a day in Tunica, as they have a lot of 9-6 JoB machines, but that's provided I don't go on a nasty losing streak, which currently I am in.
2013 has the potential to be the first year I don't secure Diamond status with CET since 2005. The closest CET property is 2 hours away (which is closer than where I lived the past 3 years) but the VP offerings at Joliet are awful. Horseshoe Hammond has 9-6 JoB in Dollars on a progressive nonetheless, but my bankroll is a bit tight to afford that all the time. My work schedule prevents me from capitalizing on weekday offers, and I'm forced to go on weekends where I can't get a hotel room for free.
As far as the debate about the TR program caste system, frankly, I'm fine with it. There are few casinos where higher card holders DON'T have privileged status. I try to concentrate my play at specific casinos for that reason. I know how the system works, and until this year, Diamond status had a lot of perks. We'll see where it goes after this.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
January 5th, 2013 at 3:07:15 PM
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I don't see what the big deal is. Many businesses do this with loyalty programs. Do you ever fly anywhere? People who are flying first class or are in an airline's premium frequent flyer program get to skip the security lines (and, the TSA is a government program!) and get to board the plane first. Many airlines have first-class lounges. You may be allowed entry if you have a certain frequent flyer level or a certain type of credit card. Ever have a flight cancelled? Everyone gets rebooked, but the premium frequent flyer tier members get "priority" rebooking, which means that they get on the next flight, if there is room, while the lower-tier people wait until all the higher-tier people have been rebooked before they get their turn. Ever wonder why they can't rebook you for two days, while the guy behind you in line gets on the next flight? That's why.
Hotel chains have rewards programs too. Higher levels get you perks like "guaranteed reservations" (large hotels are very rarely truly "full", no matter when they tell you when you call to try to book something) and free upgrades.
I know several people who live in a certain upscale building in SF. The HOA has an agreement with a cab company -- they get priority service when it's busy. So, if you call for a cab, they will be there in an hour but when the doorman calls for you they will be there in 10 min.
You would be surprised what the concierge that you get with a high-end amex can do for you. You want to see a show that's "sold out"? Just call the concierge -- again, very few things are really ever "sold out". Same with getting a table at a busy high-end restaurant.
I have a premium account at my bank (PMA account at Wells Fargo). Among other things, that gets me 24/7 phone customer support, with a special number that never has a wait. Don't have a PMA account? Call the regular number during business hours and wait in line.
So, yes, casinos do this, but so do other industries. When I am at an MGM property I gladly skip the taxi line and the check-in line with my platinum card. Sure, I get some dirty looks, but why should I wait in line for half an hour like everyone else? The money I lose pays for that place; the least they can do is get me a taxi without waiting. Why would I go play somewhere that didn't give me perks like this? Obviously I am going to take my business to the place that gives me the most for my money.
Hotel chains have rewards programs too. Higher levels get you perks like "guaranteed reservations" (large hotels are very rarely truly "full", no matter when they tell you when you call to try to book something) and free upgrades.
I know several people who live in a certain upscale building in SF. The HOA has an agreement with a cab company -- they get priority service when it's busy. So, if you call for a cab, they will be there in an hour but when the doorman calls for you they will be there in 10 min.
You would be surprised what the concierge that you get with a high-end amex can do for you. You want to see a show that's "sold out"? Just call the concierge -- again, very few things are really ever "sold out". Same with getting a table at a busy high-end restaurant.
I have a premium account at my bank (PMA account at Wells Fargo). Among other things, that gets me 24/7 phone customer support, with a special number that never has a wait. Don't have a PMA account? Call the regular number during business hours and wait in line.
So, yes, casinos do this, but so do other industries. When I am at an MGM property I gladly skip the taxi line and the check-in line with my platinum card. Sure, I get some dirty looks, but why should I wait in line for half an hour like everyone else? The money I lose pays for that place; the least they can do is get me a taxi without waiting. Why would I go play somewhere that didn't give me perks like this? Obviously I am going to take my business to the place that gives me the most for my money.
January 5th, 2013 at 3:28:06 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonPersonally I hate the way it is in Vegas -- I call it the Caesars Caste System with special lines for Diamonds and 7Stars, and sometimes just for 7Stars. Ive been at the cage at Caesars when 20 people are in line for a cashier but the 7Stars cashier is chatting it up with the person at the window AFTER their business has been conducted. It's just plain rude. 7Stars and Diamond players are no better than anyone else.
Sure comps should be awarded be awarded based on play, but this "caste system" has got to go. If ever I am in a "7 stars line" at the cage or a restaurant and I see elderly folks or someone disabled waiting -- I always tell whoever (hostess, manager, 7stars cashier) to "take them first."
Personally I think you are just being the nicer person here, and I applaud you for it. But I expect casinos to cater to the bigger playing customers first. Keeping them happier has more effect on their bottom line. It may not bother you, but waiting in shorter lines and other perks probably gets some players to bother to achieve these statuses and may gamble more than they would have if they didn't have it. If I, on the other hand, just stop playing at all CET properties, they really won't miss my ADT that is probably in the low double digits unless I have a huge live poker binge.
January 5th, 2013 at 3:32:42 PM
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I get it that someone spending time chatting when people are waiting is ANOYING, but I've seen gold members do this.
CASTE SYSTEM WTF? When I was a diamond I PAID for what I got.
For someone who says they got 500k tier last year, let's do the math. Were we know the most info is in slot/vp play. Slot $5=1pt house edge on high denom say 5%, 1pt=25₵ 500kpt=$125,000 vp $10=1pt lets say 1/2% house edge 1pt=5₵ 500kpt= $25,000
YOU PAID FOR FRONT OF LINE.
When I was diamond I had multiple instances where a 7-star didn't want to cut, generally I was first in line and made it clear "you paid for it' and made them go to the front.
It is not caste when you pay for it.
Back on topic are there cuts to benefits, such as lounge access for low diamond? Someone said "status is good till 2014", does that mean no more 2 years of benefits? In the past if you got 11k-pts you had diamond for this year and next year, did that change?
CASTE SYSTEM WTF? When I was a diamond I PAID for what I got.
For someone who says they got 500k tier last year, let's do the math. Were we know the most info is in slot/vp play. Slot $5=1pt house edge on high denom say 5%, 1pt=25₵ 500kpt=$125,000 vp $10=1pt lets say 1/2% house edge 1pt=5₵ 500kpt= $25,000
YOU PAID FOR FRONT OF LINE.
When I was diamond I had multiple instances where a 7-star didn't want to cut, generally I was first in line and made it clear "you paid for it' and made them go to the front.
It is not caste when you pay for it.
Back on topic are there cuts to benefits, such as lounge access for low diamond? Someone said "status is good till 2014", does that mean no more 2 years of benefits? In the past if you got 11k-pts you had diamond for this year and next year, did that change?
January 5th, 2013 at 3:47:56 PM
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Quote: whatmeCASTE SYSTEM WTF? When I was a diamond I PAID for what I got.
This is exactly it. The analogy to a caste system is a poor one. Caste systems are based on the idea that certain people are treated differently based on who their parents are.
This is just a business treating their good customers better than their bad or non-customers. At a restaurant, if you don't pay they won't feed you and if you do pay they will. Some menu items may be more expensive than others; if you pay more you get better food. This is not a caste system; it's just getting what you pay for.
January 5th, 2013 at 3:51:16 PM
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Quote: whatmeIn the past if you got 11k-pts you had diamond for this year and next year, did that change?
Diamond and Seven Star is valid for the next 15 months after the earning period ends. So if you qualify for Diamond in 2013, it would be good until April 2015, do it in 2014, then it would be good til April 2016, etc. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.
January 5th, 2013 at 4:51:23 PM
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Thanks tring
I don't know why I just feel something is missing with the new TR earning system.
I think they are going to cut rewards, but what?
I don't know why I just feel something is missing with the new TR earning system.
I think they are going to cut rewards, but what?
January 5th, 2013 at 5:13:29 PM
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Bottom line has always been and will still be, that the higher your ADT, the better you will be treated. Hosts will take care of the right people.
I know many Diamonds that are treated better than 7 Star players in both AC and LV. I know one couple in particular spend 45-50 weekends a year (Fri-Sat-Sun) in comped rooms at Caesars AC and earns about 1000 points a day while eating for nothing week after week. While OK, the Diamond who comes once every couple months and earns 5000 Tier Points (Old System) is a more valuable customer to the casino.
Now if we could just figure out the ADT formula!
I know many Diamonds that are treated better than 7 Star players in both AC and LV. I know one couple in particular spend 45-50 weekends a year (Fri-Sat-Sun) in comped rooms at Caesars AC and earns about 1000 points a day while eating for nothing week after week. While OK, the Diamond who comes once every couple months and earns 5000 Tier Points (Old System) is a more valuable customer to the casino.
Now if we could just figure out the ADT formula!
January 5th, 2013 at 9:46:30 PM
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Just got the email with the updates.
GUESS WHAT you can get 7-stars for 1/2 the play!!!
It clearly states the bonus tier pts count for 7-stars, but don't count for comps that's ok.
http://www.totalrewards.com/2013Updates/index.html
Funny typo can you spot it?
GUESS WHAT you can get 7-stars for 1/2 the play!!!
It clearly states the bonus tier pts count for 7-stars, but don't count for comps that's ok.
http://www.totalrewards.com/2013Updates/index.html
Funny typo can you spot it?
January 5th, 2013 at 11:02:12 PM
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I don't understand their examples at all. How does 16 days of earning 2500 tier credits only result in a tier score of 2000? Can someone please explain to me?
January 5th, 2013 at 11:14:13 PM
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Thats the typo it should say 500 tier
January 5th, 2013 at 11:25:19 PM
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Ok but I still don't follow. Why do they seem to only be adding the tier credit bonuses and not the actual tier points earned? 16 days of earning 500 Tier Credits should net you 8000 plus the 2000 bonus.
January 5th, 2013 at 11:49:04 PM
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Quote: bdrobetOk but I still don't follow. Why do they seem to only be adding the tier credit bonuses and not the actual tier points earned? 16 days of earning 500 Tier Credits should net you 8000 plus the 2000 bonus.
b/c the base was on the first line "tier score" then they put bonuses on seperate lines.
January 6th, 2013 at 3:02:03 AM
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You would think a multi billion dollar operation would hire a proofreader before sending out millions of emails. But then again seeing how they run their operations in Atlantic City I guess they really don't run anything too well.
January 6th, 2013 at 12:57:55 PM
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As a lower-tiered Diamond member, I'm pleased that they've added a $100 "Celebration Dinner" to the benefits.
Since most of my play is done on one or two long gambling days a month, the daily bonus credits might make this new program better for me than the previous one. However, I mostly play craps, and the manual rating done at table games can vary wildly, and I mean WILDLY. We'll see.
Since most of my play is done on one or two long gambling days a month, the daily bonus credits might make this new program better for me than the previous one. However, I mostly play craps, and the manual rating done at table games can vary wildly, and I mean WILDLY. We'll see.
YouCanBetOnThat.com, a podcast for the recreational gambler
January 8th, 2013 at 5:32:11 PM
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Quote: YouCanBetOnThatHowever, I mostly play craps, and the manual rating done at table games can vary wildly, and I mean WILDLY. We'll see.
Oh yeah. I was doing some really low rolls at Rincon over the last few days, mostly killing time while waiting for other people; I was running 5$DP/DC and max odds whenever a 4/10 came up.
First day, I bottomed out of my daily allotment after maybe three hours and pulled in 36 points. Second day, I bottomed out after maybe an hour and got 66. (I even tipped less the second time, go figure.)
January 8th, 2013 at 5:59:18 PM
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Haha!!!
I have a host at Horseshoe Cleveland, do you guys believe that one!?
I went there last month and used their offer to double my Free Play offer from Scioto Downs, so I got $250 in FreePlay and ended up $689 ahead, (actually $709, but I'm counting tips against me):
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/mission146/blog/#post841
I ended up gambling exactly $0.00 of my own actual money! I guess I ran my winnings through the machines quite a few more times than I thought for a host to be calling me. I have a host at Scioto Downs, but I've only talked to him once. He told me to call him if I want more buffets than what is offered on my mailers (1/week), or if I ever needed a discount on any tickets or anything. I never have. I'm only concerned about the FreePlay.
Anyway, my host's name is Dave and he's a really nice guy. He told me to give him a call if I ever need a restaurant or room comp/discount over there, but there was no mention of Freeplay. I doubt if I will go there again, but you never know.
I have a host at Horseshoe Cleveland, do you guys believe that one!?
I went there last month and used their offer to double my Free Play offer from Scioto Downs, so I got $250 in FreePlay and ended up $689 ahead, (actually $709, but I'm counting tips against me):
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/mission146/blog/#post841
I ended up gambling exactly $0.00 of my own actual money! I guess I ran my winnings through the machines quite a few more times than I thought for a host to be calling me. I have a host at Scioto Downs, but I've only talked to him once. He told me to call him if I want more buffets than what is offered on my mailers (1/week), or if I ever needed a discount on any tickets or anything. I never have. I'm only concerned about the FreePlay.
Anyway, my host's name is Dave and he's a really nice guy. He told me to give him a call if I ever need a restaurant or room comp/discount over there, but there was no mention of Freeplay. I doubt if I will go there again, but you never know.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
January 11th, 2013 at 10:00:55 AM
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I'm not sure it's actually going to be all that easy to attain these levels. I suppose it's easier than before, to be sure. But not as easy as we think. I took $80 in free play and $500 of my own money and sat at a $1 5 line ($5 max bet) slot at Harrah's Philadelphia this morning. I played from about 7am - 8 am. In that hour, I lost $425 and earned 208 points while playing as fast as the machine would allow. If I'd replicated that hour 12 more times in the gaming day, I'd have earned 2704 points (+ 5000 bonus) but I'd have lost $5,525. I don't think sitting at a slot for 13 hours in a day or losing $5,500 is easy, and that would need to happen 20 times before I'd even be considered for 7 stars.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 11th, 2013 at 2:40:22 PM
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Quote: rdw4potusI'm not sure it's actually going to be all that easy to attain these levels. I suppose it's easier than before, to be sure. But not as easy as we think. I took $80 in free play and $500 of my own money and sat at a $1 5 line ($5 max bet) slot at Harrah's Philadelphia this morning. I played from about 7am - 8 am. In that hour, I lost $425 and earned 208 points while playing as fast as the machine would allow. If I'd replicated that hour 12 more times in the gaming day, I'd have earned 2704 points (+ 5000 bonus) but I'd have lost $5,525. I don't think sitting at a slot for 13 hours in a day or losing $5,500 is easy, and that would need to happen 20 times before I'd even be considered for 7 stars.
Well if you ran like that for 13 hours, you would have a bad day at the slots as well.
I also wouldn't recommend earning 7 Stars via slots. If you earn 150,000 Tier without Tier bonuses on a slot machine that pays 95% (dollars pay this roughly, maybe a little worse), then your expected loss is $37,500. I'd rather have a very nice car, or two cheaper cars.
I remember when going to Harrahs NKC once and the license place said 7 Stars, but the car was probably 10+ years old. :-\
January 11th, 2013 at 3:06:47 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneWell if you ran like that for 13 hours, you would have a bad day at the slots as well.
I also wouldn't recommend earning 7 Stars via slots. If you earn 150,000 Tier without Tier bonuses on a slot machine that pays 95% (dollars pay this roughly, maybe a little worse), then your expected loss is $37,500. I'd rather have a very nice car, or two cheaper cars.
I remember when going to Harrahs NKC once and the license place said 7 Stars, but the car was probably 10+ years old. :-\
I think that's about a 60% return on my slot play (425 loss/(208*5), so that's definitely bad. I suppose the whole day would probably trend closer to the theoretical 95%ish return.
The problem is that it takes twice the play to get the points from VP, so playing 8/5 JOB would cost almost the same amount as a slot with a 95% return. I suppose I could go to reno or hammond or AC and play 9/6. But to do this locally VP is no better than high-denom slots. I could also hit the tables in a big way, and PA BJ rules are pretty good, but I'm not comfortable with the subjectivity and lack of information regarding table games ratings.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 11th, 2013 at 5:46:11 PM
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Quote: rdw4potusgo to hammond and play 9/6.
This would be a mistake, imo. Grind 50-play 99.96% Deuces Wild anywhere from $5 to $250 per round. You could rack up 2500 Tier in a day in no time, hell in 100 rounds if you would max bet! I don't think I would ever have the balls to bet that much on a single poker deal though. This is probably the best machine in the country to make 7 Stars with the least theoretical loss. Or alternatively they have 99.96% Deuces and 99.96% DDB anywhere from $25 to $500 per hand, so those would work well too. Without any tier bonuses, the theo loss with perfect play for 7 Star ($1.5M coin-in) is only $600 on a 99.96% machine!
Tunica has 99.96% Deuces or DDB as well, but it's only a single-hand dollar machine. Super Aces at 99.94% exist for $25/hand at Tunica.
January 11th, 2013 at 6:27:20 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneThis would be a mistake, imo. Grind 50-play 99.96% Deuces Wild anywhere from $5 to $250 per round. You could rack up 2500 Tier in a day in no time, hell in 100 rounds if you would max bet! I don't think I would ever have the balls to bet that much on a single poker deal though. This is probably the best machine in the country to make 7 Stars with the least theoretical loss. Or alternatively they have 99.96% Deuces and 99.96% DDB anywhere from $25 to $500 per hand, so those would work well too. Without any tier bonuses, the theo loss with perfect play for 7 Star ($1.5M coin-in) is only $600 on a 99.96% machine!
Tunica has 99.96% Deuces or DDB as well, but it's only a single-hand dollar machine. Super Aces at 99.94% exist for $25/hand at Tunica.
I needed 1,300 points to get to Diamond by the end of 2012, so I played 9/6 DDB $1 VP, 98.98%. I got one four of a kind in 2,500 hands and lost $2,200.
January 11th, 2013 at 6:44:38 PM
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That's not the LEAST bit unexpected on a $1 DDB game. That said, damn, you have rotten luck in a lot of games! :)Quote: HeadlockI needed 1,300 points to get to Diamond by the end of 2012, so I played 9/6 DDB $1 VP, 98.98%. I got one four of a kind in 2,500 hands and lost $2,200.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
January 11th, 2013 at 6:52:43 PM
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Quote: teddysThat's not the LEAST bit unexpected on a $1 DDB game.
Yeah, anyone trying these near 100% machines would be better off choosing Deuces Wild for variance sake. Seeing 4 Aces in a Deuces Wild game can be pretty depressing though. And I have yet to hit 4 Deuces while playing Deuces on a quarter machine. Maybe I can change that in Tunica this weekend?
January 11th, 2013 at 6:53:45 PM
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You won't have to wait very long.Quote: tringlomaneYeah, anyone trying these near 100% machines would be better off choosing Deuces Wild for variance sake. Seeing 4 Aces in a Deuces Wild game can be pretty depressing though. And I have yet to hit 4 Deuces while playing Deuces on a quarter machine. Maybe I can change that in Tunica this weekend?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
January 11th, 2013 at 7:04:27 PM
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Quote: teddysThat's not the LEAST bit unexpected on a $1 DDB game. That said, damn, you have rotten luck in a lot of games! :)
I DID have some bad luck there.....should get 6-7 four of a kind or better in 2,500 hands. Got some of it back with four aces and kicker on NYE.
January 11th, 2013 at 7:41:59 PM
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Quote: teddysYou won't have to wait very long.
I have sporadically played Deuces for quarters since 2004, maybe earlier. I tend to avoid quarters unless I'm playing ~100% return, obv. So I have been waiting awhile. I have hit them a few times in the past year while playing nickels though. :-\ But at least one of those was a STP machine with a 5X multiplier, so it was *like* hitting it for quarters... :)
January 14th, 2013 at 4:47:05 PM
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I don't really pay attention to comps, but as coincidence would have it, I did check my TR the day before I gambled this past weekend.
It's a new year, and like I said I never payed attention to a score, but since my Tier and RC were different, I looked to the FAQ's to see what the difference between the two are.
My understanding (and please let me know if I am wrong) is that Tier credits are added up throughout the year at a rate of 1-to1 for every Reward Credit earned. (bonus RC's not withstanding). And the reason Tier and RC's can be different is when you spend RC's on comps or the start of a new year. Am I right?
Anyway before last weekend my Tier credits were 350. After this weekend they are 450. I played BJ at Horseshoe Cleveland at a $50 table, betting mostly the minimum with probably 20-25% of my bets more than $50, I varied from $100 to a couple bets over $400, but mostly $50. The tables are always packed, and the $50 BJ tables are in the same pit as bac, and the bac tables get TONS of pit attention, so I doubt any of my bigger bets were rated, except maybe when I won a couple of the big bets and the dealer needed the pits permission to release the chips.
I played from a couple minutes after 7pm to a little after 1am. Didn't miss a shoe, much less a hand in roughly 6 hours.
How in the world does a BJ player ever get to Diamond or 7 star status? I see a decent amount of donkeys with diamond cards and a couple of 7 stars who just play BJ awful, they must lose $40k a year to get to Diamond, or am I missing something?
It's a new year, and like I said I never payed attention to a score, but since my Tier and RC were different, I looked to the FAQ's to see what the difference between the two are.
My understanding (and please let me know if I am wrong) is that Tier credits are added up throughout the year at a rate of 1-to1 for every Reward Credit earned. (bonus RC's not withstanding). And the reason Tier and RC's can be different is when you spend RC's on comps or the start of a new year. Am I right?
Anyway before last weekend my Tier credits were 350. After this weekend they are 450. I played BJ at Horseshoe Cleveland at a $50 table, betting mostly the minimum with probably 20-25% of my bets more than $50, I varied from $100 to a couple bets over $400, but mostly $50. The tables are always packed, and the $50 BJ tables are in the same pit as bac, and the bac tables get TONS of pit attention, so I doubt any of my bigger bets were rated, except maybe when I won a couple of the big bets and the dealer needed the pits permission to release the chips.
I played from a couple minutes after 7pm to a little after 1am. Didn't miss a shoe, much less a hand in roughly 6 hours.
How in the world does a BJ player ever get to Diamond or 7 star status? I see a decent amount of donkeys with diamond cards and a couple of 7 stars who just play BJ awful, they must lose $40k a year to get to Diamond, or am I missing something?
Statistics don't lie, they deceive.
January 14th, 2013 at 5:56:55 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneYeah, anyone trying these near 100% machines would be better off choosing Deuces Wild for variance sake. Seeing 4 Aces in a Deuces Wild game can be pretty depressing though. And I have yet to hit 4 Deuces while playing Deuces on a quarter machine. Maybe I can change that in Tunica this weekend?
I found the secret to getting natural 4-of-a-kinds is to play Deuces Wild. I was playing 5c DW waiting for people to gather for dinner and ended up with 3 natural four-of-a-kinds in about 20 minutes. (The last was a set of 2s though, so I suppose the RNG was done teasing me for the time being.)
Quote: Maverick17My understanding (and please let me know if I am wrong) is that Tier credits are added up throughout the year at a rate of 1-to1 for every Reward Credit earned. (bonus RC's not withstanding). And the reason Tier and RC's can be different is when you spend RC's on comps or the start of a new year. Am I right?
As far as I understand it, Tier Credits/Score is what determine your rank. Reward Credits are what you can spend on stuff. (I generally call them Rank Points and Cash Points. Generic terms tend to work better when multiple systems are in hand, and you're translating in multiple languages.) Both TCs and RCs get built up by doing a variety of stuff including using their credit card, but, in this case, most likely it's just gameplay.
The major difference is that there are a lot of ways to modify the rate of RC accrual while TC is effectively fixed (with the exception of the daily bonus, now). For example, today at Rincon, 7Star members get 5x RCs on VP (9x on slots). I believe RCs get wiped after six months of no transactions while TCs are reset every calendar year. Other discrepancies may arise from spending RCs.
It's probably better to view TCs and RCs as being completely independent that just accrue at the same rate most of the time rather than thinking that one is directly responsible for the other.
January 14th, 2013 at 6:38:16 PM
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I dont know if this will clear up the confusion or only add to it, but here goes:
1. tier credits are based on the dollar value of your bets. With slots it's simple: every $5 bet earns one tier point. For video poker it's simple: every $10 bet earns one tier point. For table games it's not so simple. Total Rewards/Caesars has never NEVER NEVER clearly defined what bets on what games earn what points.
2. Reward Credits are better known as comp points or comp dollars and how reward credits are awarded varies by the property. For example, at Rincon there are NO reward credits given because Rincon gives comp credits in other ways based on your play. At Caesars Palace, slot and video poker players can see their "reward credits" added on their machines just as they see their tier points added. Again with table game players it's a mystery.
1. tier credits are based on the dollar value of your bets. With slots it's simple: every $5 bet earns one tier point. For video poker it's simple: every $10 bet earns one tier point. For table games it's not so simple. Total Rewards/Caesars has never NEVER NEVER clearly defined what bets on what games earn what points.
2. Reward Credits are better known as comp points or comp dollars and how reward credits are awarded varies by the property. For example, at Rincon there are NO reward credits given because Rincon gives comp credits in other ways based on your play. At Caesars Palace, slot and video poker players can see their "reward credits" added on their machines just as they see their tier points added. Again with table game players it's a mystery.
January 14th, 2013 at 7:03:28 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonFor example, at Rincon there are NO reward credits given because Rincon gives comp credits in other ways based on your play.
I'm fairly certain that Rincon gives RCs-- according to my December ledger, I got 472 RCs in December. In December, the only places I played were on Fremont, The Orleans, Tropicana and the various places down in Temecula. (I may have stopped at Whiskey Pete's to get out of a killer traffic jam, but that may have been in November. Can't recall.)
That, and it would be incredibly misleading if all the Credit Reward Multiplier days advertised in Rincon didn't actually do anything.
January 14th, 2013 at 7:58:18 PM
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I knew I was going to add to the confusion!!
What Rincon gives you are comp dollars that have a different formula than the "reward credits" that you will see on a slot machine display in Vegas. Rincon also has a different formula than what you will see in Vegas because Rincon gives free play but the Vegas casinos do not.
YES you get comp dollars at Rincon and YES the comp dollars can be used in the Total Rewards system and YES you can call them "reward credits" if you like but they are figured differently. As I mentioned every different Caesars owned or operated property figures them differently.
The ONLY thing that is uniform is how tier points are compiled for slots and video poker.
I knew it was going to be confusing, I knew, I knew it, I knew it.... LOL
What Rincon gives you are comp dollars that have a different formula than the "reward credits" that you will see on a slot machine display in Vegas. Rincon also has a different formula than what you will see in Vegas because Rincon gives free play but the Vegas casinos do not.
YES you get comp dollars at Rincon and YES the comp dollars can be used in the Total Rewards system and YES you can call them "reward credits" if you like but they are figured differently. As I mentioned every different Caesars owned or operated property figures them differently.
The ONLY thing that is uniform is how tier points are compiled for slots and video poker.
I knew it was going to be confusing, I knew, I knew it, I knew it.... LOL
