2nd Debate Tonight
October 16th, 2012 at 2:16:30 PM
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This should be really interesting. Both camps tried
to get Candy Crowley to keep her big fat trap shut
as the mod tonight, but she gave them the finger. Today
she said she will ask follow up questions when she
see's fit.
It will be interesting because she's totally in the bag
for Obama. She will mostly be going after Romney,
wait and see. I don't think she know's what she's up
against.
to get Candy Crowley to keep her big fat trap shut
as the mod tonight, but she gave them the finger. Today
she said she will ask follow up questions when she
see's fit.
It will be interesting because she's totally in the bag
for Obama. She will mostly be going after Romney,
wait and see. I don't think she know's what she's up
against.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 2:22:44 PM
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I don't know why she would go after Romney. He is going to answer the questions asked, isn't he?
Sanitized for Your Protection
October 16th, 2012 at 2:58:06 PM
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Quote: rxwineI don't know why she would go after Romney. He is going to answer the questions asked, isn't he?
She will interject if she thinks he didn't answer
the question they way she likes. The same
for Obama, but it will not be nearly as often.
I have seen the VP debate 3 times and the mod
was clearly after Ryan. She interrupted him
constantly. What did we expect, Obama was
a guest at her wedding for crying out loud.
But even the VP mod agrees Biden didn't win
the debate, he was too 'big'. Thats TV talk for
too expressive with his hands and face and
demeanor. It massively took away from his
credibility.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 3:29:05 PM
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I would love if debates were radio only by law. There hasn't been one news show (fox, msnbc, cnn, etc) since the debates started that has talked about anything besides body language.
October 16th, 2012 at 3:31:31 PM
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Quote: kulinI would love if debates were radio only by law.
Why? They say 90% of our info comes to
us thru vision. If it was radio, nobody
could see that McCain never looked at
Obama once in the 3 debates they had
in 2008. Is that the message you want
delivered?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 3:35:55 PM
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Quote: EvenBobWhy? They say 90% of our info comes to
us thru vision. If it was radio, nobody
could see that McCain never looked at
Obama once in the 3 debates they had
in 2008. Is that the message you want
delivered?
Even if 90% is true, it is the 90% of the communication I don't care about. I don't need to know how likable the president is. It's not a job requirement. I need to know their policies and how well thought out they are.
October 16th, 2012 at 3:37:36 PM
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I think there are Big Bang Reruns at the same time. I'd rather focus on something actually important :P
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 16th, 2012 at 3:37:53 PM
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It also might make the debates more civil because it has become the case that each base wants debates to be fights and whoever interrupts the other person more is more in command. All of Biden's smirks and interruptions were calculated decisions based off Romney's example.
October 16th, 2012 at 3:39:31 PM
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Galup poll put Romney ahead by 4% (2% margin of error) but I think that I would put more faith in intrade than pollsters
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings
October 16th, 2012 at 4:25:22 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
October 16th, 2012 at 6:57:44 PM
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A liberal website: "This debate is delicious. I have recorded it on 4 different channels. I may rewatch it on all of them."
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 7:25:56 PM
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That Obama is just terrible without his teleprompter, dontcha think? :)
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 7:29:26 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerThat Obama is just terrible without his teleprompter, dontcha think? :)
This is one of his better performances without the teleprompter. Not that the bar is that high on that one...he's had some bad ones off prompter.
He's doing better than the first debate but that bar is pretty low, too.
Given all that, I'd say that we'll end up with a draw tonight. A draw is unlikely to help him very much.
October 16th, 2012 at 7:33:01 PM
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RonC calls it a draw. (giggle)Quote: RonCGiven all that, I'd say that we'll end up with a draw tonight.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 7:34:29 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerRonC calls it a draw. (giggle)
These 2nd debates are usually draws unless one
of them really screws up like McCain did, walking
all over the stage and never looking at Obama.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 7:36:05 PM
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EvenBob: check him off for 'Draw' This is getting better and better for Obama!Quote: EvenBobThese 2nd debates are usually draws
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 7:39:00 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerEvenBob: check him off for 'Draw' This is getting better and better for Obama!
Obama reminds me of the drunk dad who constantly
tells his family to give him just one more chance. Sure
none of his promises materialized and he didn't even
try, but just give him one more chance.
Sorry, too much at stake.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 7:39:01 PM
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Quote: s2dbakerRonC calls it a draw. (giggle)
You aren't worth a suspension.
October 16th, 2012 at 7:40:26 PM
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"CNN Focus group didn't like Obama's 47% comment. Lines went down. #CNNUndecideds. #CNNDebate."
Hmmm...maybe he should have skipped that one...
Hmmm...maybe he should have skipped that one...
October 16th, 2012 at 7:50:54 PM
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Both of them got this wrong...the President did allude to acts of terror (not a terrorist attack) and then blamed the movie for two weeks...so...(I updated this after listening to Gibbs defend the President this morning; it became more clear to me that the President was talking more generically than about the specific incident in Libya)
"In one of the most heated moments, Romney argued Obama did not immediately refer to the violence in Libya as terrorism. Remarks from the president's appearance in the Rose Garden at the White House on the day after the attack show that Obama called them "acts of terror."
"No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done." 9/12/12"
http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/Second_Presidential_Debate_2
The movie had nothing to do with it, the President knew it well before their position was modified, and Romney failed to win the point clearly--he missed a big opportunity...
"In one of the most heated moments, Romney argued Obama did not immediately refer to the violence in Libya as terrorism. Remarks from the president's appearance in the Rose Garden at the White House on the day after the attack show that Obama called them "acts of terror."
"No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done." 9/12/12"
http://politicslive.cnn.com/Event/Second_Presidential_Debate_2
The movie had nothing to do with it, the President knew it well before their position was modified, and Romney failed to win the point clearly--he missed a big opportunity...
October 16th, 2012 at 7:54:28 PM
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Boring. Like a talking head just said, if you
like Obama, he won, and if you like Romney, he won.
A draw.
like Obama, he won, and if you like Romney, he won.
A draw.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 16th, 2012 at 8:00:30 PM
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CBS snap poll of undecided voters, MoE 4%
Obama 37
Romney 30
Tie 33
Obama 37
Romney 30
Tie 33
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 8:02:44 PM
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Pinnacle price on Obama has already moved to -258. I think I'm going to grab some before it gets more expensive.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 16th, 2012 at 8:24:00 PM
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Quote: WizardPinnacle price on Obama has already moved to -258. I think I'm going to grab some before it gets more expensive.
While not surprising in some ways, it feels like we're going to have a temporary surge based on relief that the debate was not so one-sided this time, after which it'll settle down. I'd be careful on this one, Michael...
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
October 16th, 2012 at 8:27:28 PM
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Oh yeah, the fat lady is not singing yet.
But she's warming up.
But she's warming up.
Sanitized for Your Protection
October 16th, 2012 at 8:30:40 PM
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Quote: TheBigPaybak... I'd be careful on this one, Michael...
This sounds like something KITT would say....
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 16th, 2012 at 8:59:59 PM
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Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 16th, 2012 at 9:59:22 PM
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deleted
October 16th, 2012 at 10:39:33 PM
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President Obama won this debate, IMO. Not as huge win. Not as one sided as MR Romney's win in debate #1, but he did much better. (The bar was set pretty low...lol). The president looked confident and prepared, unlike 2 weeks ago. Mr Romney did well, but he was on the defensive more that 2 weeks ago. Regardless of what he was trying to say, when the moderator, corrects you, in front of 70 million people, it's not a strong moment.
To me there was a bigger issue for Romney that hasn't been discussed. As I have said in another thread, he can not win the presidency without winning Ohio. Despite his recent poll bounce from the last debate, Ohio is still polling towards the President, although closer than it was. In order to win that state, Mr Romney has to win over more women in Ohio. His numbers with women have improved, but not yet enough to win Ohio. So to me women were his target audience tonight.
Now here is the comment that I think is a bigger deal than anyone has mentioned so far. Mr Romney was talking about when he became governor of Mass and was looking for qualified females to be part of his inner team. Now first of all, shouldn't he be looking for the best qualified candidate, not the best qualified female candidate? This seems like a thinly veiled attempt to cater to women by hiring a token candidate. But the really strange statement was the pouring over binders of women. That has a strange, creepy, component to it.
Romney also didn't help himself with the immigration answer. He was never going to secure much of the latino vote anyway, but he probably can kiss goodbye two very close swings states with large latino populations, Nevada and Colorado.
To me there was a bigger issue for Romney that hasn't been discussed. As I have said in another thread, he can not win the presidency without winning Ohio. Despite his recent poll bounce from the last debate, Ohio is still polling towards the President, although closer than it was. In order to win that state, Mr Romney has to win over more women in Ohio. His numbers with women have improved, but not yet enough to win Ohio. So to me women were his target audience tonight.
Now here is the comment that I think is a bigger deal than anyone has mentioned so far. Mr Romney was talking about when he became governor of Mass and was looking for qualified females to be part of his inner team. Now first of all, shouldn't he be looking for the best qualified candidate, not the best qualified female candidate? This seems like a thinly veiled attempt to cater to women by hiring a token candidate. But the really strange statement was the pouring over binders of women. That has a strange, creepy, component to it.
Romney also didn't help himself with the immigration answer. He was never going to secure much of the latino vote anyway, but he probably can kiss goodbye two very close swings states with large latino populations, Nevada and Colorado.
October 16th, 2012 at 11:16:59 PM
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I think the polls will favor Obama in this debate, HOWEVER, I now think the next debate won't really do much for either candidate.
I don't expect Obama to repeat debate 1, and I don't see much possibility of either candidate delivering the equivelent of a debate knockout to the other. Though, I suppose one or other could make a major gaffe, I really don't expect it from either.
I don't expect Obama to repeat debate 1, and I don't see much possibility of either candidate delivering the equivelent of a debate knockout to the other. Though, I suppose one or other could make a major gaffe, I really don't expect it from either.
Sanitized for Your Protection
October 16th, 2012 at 11:24:30 PM
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Quote: rxwineI think the polls will favor Obama in this debate, HOWEVER, I now think the next debate won't really do much for either candidate.
I don't expect Obama to repeat debate 1, and I don't see much possibility of either candidate delivering the equivelent of a debate knockout to the other. Though, I suppose one or other could make a major gaffe, I really don't expect it from either.
Agreed, plus debate 3 topic is foreign policy. Will be an opportunity for Romney to hit Obama on poor handling of The Libya attack. Obama's admin looks bad on that. Mistakes were made and good people lost their lives because of it, so I don't want to trivialize that fact, but that incident and foreign policy in general is not the focus of most voters. The economy is. In the absense of a major mistake by either side, I don't see that third debate moving the needle much.
October 17th, 2012 at 4:26:20 AM
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Thinking more about the debate, I can see how hard it is to be objective about a winner when a President with a less than stellar record is involved. President Obama definitely brought his performance up a few levels after the first debate but he had to defend his failures, which is just not easy.
Look back four years--when the President had no record to be concerned with--it was much easier to use words to paint a much weaker Republican candidate as not being the right person for the job at that time. He comes into a debate like this with accomplishments, to be sure, but a whole string of failures, too.
Looking at in that light, the President did great. I don't think it matters. What matters is how the undecideds who watched felt about the President's record on improving the economy--the promises he made contrasted with what actually happened--not how well he appeared to do in the debate.
Sometimes you may win the battle but lose the war...we'll see!!
Look back four years--when the President had no record to be concerned with--it was much easier to use words to paint a much weaker Republican candidate as not being the right person for the job at that time. He comes into a debate like this with accomplishments, to be sure, but a whole string of failures, too.
Looking at in that light, the President did great. I don't think it matters. What matters is how the undecideds who watched felt about the President's record on improving the economy--the promises he made contrasted with what actually happened--not how well he appeared to do in the debate.
Sometimes you may win the battle but lose the war...we'll see!!
October 17th, 2012 at 10:26:58 AM
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In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 17th, 2012 at 10:41:03 AM
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Quote: WongBo
You could write whatever you want on it, there is no possible picture of that guy that would fail to be hilarious.
"I don't always eat Raisan Bran, but when I do, I prefer two scoops."
Still funny, anything would be!!!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 17th, 2012 at 10:58:13 AM
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Quote: WongBo
What is wrong with this statement? Seriously?
At least Romney thinks women care about more than free birth control pills and abortions. If you listened to Obama you would think that is all a woman's life revolved around.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 17th, 2012 at 11:02:16 AM
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In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 17th, 2012 at 11:18:15 AM
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I'm 99.9% I'll vote Romney.
I didn't catch all the debate...he fumbled the Libya "scandal" if you ask me. Stammering and stuttering doesn't look good but. IMO obama has some balls to go to LV for a fundraiser after throwing you guys under the bus in 08 or 09. I think Obama won it FWIW.
I evidently missed the remarks about having folders of women....was he talking about resumes or something?
I didn't catch all the debate...he fumbled the Libya "scandal" if you ask me. Stammering and stuttering doesn't look good but. IMO obama has some balls to go to LV for a fundraiser after throwing you guys under the bus in 08 or 09. I think Obama won it FWIW.
I evidently missed the remarks about having folders of women....was he talking about resumes or something?
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings
October 17th, 2012 at 11:21:35 AM
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Quote: Scotty71
I evidently missed the remarks about having folders of women....was he talking about resumes or something?
I did not see it, but I believe so. Somehow liberals think keeping an employee prospect file is sexist.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 17th, 2012 at 11:27:54 AM
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No so much talking as fibbing. Romney indicated that when he was elected Governor, he noticed the he didn't have any broads working for him. So he says that he initiated a search by reaching out the ladies' groups and they gave him binders full of broads to pick from. He hired a total of Zero for cabinet level positions.Quote: Scotty71I evidently missed the remarks about having folders of women....was he talking about resumes or something?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 17th, 2012 at 11:34:10 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanAt least Romney thinks women care about more than free birth control pills and abortions. If you listened to Obama you would think that is all a woman's life revolved around.
That's because that is all a woman's life revolves around, if you take Barbra Streisand and Rosie O'Donnell as the standard for women. This is based on something from 2000, where Rosie announced on her show that she was voting for Gore, and it was for the same reason Barbra was; she then showed a clip of Streisand saying she was voting for Gore "for three reasons; the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court"; I interpret "the Supreme Court" as "upholding Roe v. Wade".
October 17th, 2012 at 11:35:09 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerNo so much talking as fibbing. Romney indicated that when he was elected Governor, he noticed the he didn't have any broads working for him. So he says that he initiated a search by reaching out the ladies' groups and they gave him binders full of broads to pick from. He hired a total of Zero for cabinet level positions.
Notice that this is how a liberal refers to women--"binders full of broads."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 17th, 2012 at 11:38:13 AM
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I would rather hear a liberal jokingly refer to women as broads
than a conservative seriously consider himself empowered
to decide what they do with their bodies and lives.
I'm guessing most women would agree....
than a conservative seriously consider himself empowered
to decide what they do with their bodies and lives.
I'm guessing most women would agree....
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 17th, 2012 at 11:38:52 AM
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Quote: AZDuffman
What is wrong with this statement? Seriously?
At least Romney thinks women care about more than free birth control pills and abortions. If you listened to Obama you would think that is all a woman's life revolved around.
Here's my take on this, people have different perspectives but here is how it came across to me.
It's just not a good way to refer to any group of people, insert any group of people into the statement and it sounds bad. It objectifies women and is equating them to a commodity or cattle, much in the same way you bring home a book of carpet samples.
The question was asked "How do you equalize pay between men and women in the workforce since women in general make less than men in the same positions?", neither candidate gave a great answer, but in addition to the above quote, Romney went on to say that basically women in the workplace need to be treated differently, let them work different hours then men so they can get home to tend to the children, make dinner and clean up etc...
So he was asked, how do we treat women in the workplace equally, and his answer is, well first we need to go to a special binder containing only the qualified women that meet some standard and then once we do hire them we need to be flexible with their special needs to tend to children, cook and clean.
So to treat women equally we need to treat them different cause they are women. It's a terrible answer.
Women are not the only groups that need to watch children, take care of a home, cook or be qualified in order to get a job. It's not an easy question to answer and I don't know the right answer, but I know his answer was not the right one that is going to connect with women.
Ask a woman what she thinks of that statement/his response to his question. My mother called it downright insulting.
Edited to add, I doubt any woman listened to his answer to this question and thought, "Oh yeah, Romney gets me as a woman and what needs to be done"
October 17th, 2012 at 11:46:57 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: WongBo
What is wrong with this statement? Seriously?
At least Romney thinks women care about more than free birth control pills and abortions. If you listened to Obama you would think that is all a woman's life revolved around.
It's a very positive discrimination statement from Romney... surely the conservatives don't approve of such positive discrimination? :)
EDIT : on further thoughts, the answer was this horrible mismash of trying to appeal to the socially liberal, the conservatives and his own views, and coming across as an horribly awkward moment. There in lies the rub... it's awkward but ultimately one thing among many, but it's the thing that got picked up into the consciousness (at least this morning according to my various social media feeds). Romney needs as few of these as possible, and as many Obama items. No-one has said much about what Barrack said.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 17th, 2012 at 11:49:48 AM
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Quote: WongBoI would rather hear a liberal jokingly refer to women as broads
than a conservative seriously consider himself empowered
to decide what they do with their bodies and lives.
I'm guessing most women would agree....
When are conservatives doing that?
Or are you confused with Michelle Obama telling them what they and their kids are supposed to eat? Perhaps Obama telling them what medical insurance they must buy?
But my guess is you think that all women are pro-abortion and prefer a POTUS who is in favor of letting their delivered child be allowed to die on an OR table after a failed abortion.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 17th, 2012 at 11:54:39 AM
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As usual you go to the absolute extreme example to try to make your point.
FAIL
Please try to restrain yourself from telling people what they think.
FAIL
Please try to restrain yourself from telling people what they think.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 17th, 2012 at 12:20:12 PM
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Quote: WongBoAs usual you go to the absolute extreme example to try to make your point.
FAIL
Please try to restrain yourself from telling people what they think.
I don't think any party will ever overturn R v Wade period. In fairness to AZduff though.... govt has no business providing $$ directly to organizations that perform abortions...thats not governments job. Let NOW or NARAL raise the money for that. You actually have a government that is paying poor mothers for more babies. If that gets any more expensive can we force them to get abortions?
I was raised by an original NOW member and have been soaked in feminism my whole life but lets call a spade a spade. On a one night fling lets say a woman gets pregnant. She can get an abortion w/out the fathers consent... I get that I guess. If she wants to have the baby lets say and he doesn't; he can't force her to terminate the pregnancy or indemnify of any future cost... nor can her force her to have it and deliver full custody to him in lieu of termination.....She had her chance right ladies? This is an extreme point but it highlights a fundamental problem in our country. Child support for unwed parents ties up tens of thousands of hours of court time, lands "deadbeat parents in jail, and uses kids as currency for economic leverage. With thousands of good families looking to adopt this is the best long term strategy for women and their reproductive rights?
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings
October 17th, 2012 at 12:44:57 PM
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If men could get pregnant you would be able to buy abortifacients pills in every restroom vending machine in the country.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 17th, 2012 at 12:47:03 PM
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President Obama hires more women for high-level positions = He supports women!!
Governor Romney hires more women for high-level positions (and uses binders to hold their resumes) = He hates women!!
Funny stuff.
Governor Romney hires more women for high-level positions (and uses binders to hold their resumes) = He hates women!!
Funny stuff.
October 17th, 2012 at 12:55:11 PM
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As I said earlier, the "Who Won?" results are all over the place...
Who won the debate?
Mitt Romney
52%
Barack Obama
48%
47809 people have taken this poll.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/presidential-debate-libya-questioner-says-obama-didnt-answer/2012/10/17/7109898e-1867-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html
******************
I've seen it falling both ways depending on where I look.
Draw. President Obama loses as the facts are reviewed but Romney will lose some points, too.
Who won the debate?
Mitt Romney
52%
Barack Obama
48%
47809 people have taken this poll.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/presidential-debate-libya-questioner-says-obama-didnt-answer/2012/10/17/7109898e-1867-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html
******************
I've seen it falling both ways depending on where I look.
Draw. President Obama loses as the facts are reviewed but Romney will lose some points, too.
