Thread Rating:

LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
March 19th, 2014 at 12:58:24 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Obamacare leaves Las Vegas man owing $407,000 in doctor bills

Hate to sound harsh, but if this guy voted for Obama, it's hard to have any sympathy for him!!



This situation reminds me of the type of stories the dems would trot out before obmacare. You know the story of the guy who has to sell his house in order to pay for the wifes chemotherapy. But supposedly with obamacare all this will go away.

I dont see the govt forcing companies to give flood coverage to people in flood zones.

If the govt wants to help those people out, thats fine with me. If they get flooded and lose their homes, and the govt wants to give those people assistance....thats fine. But dont force my insurance company to raise my rates and deductables by forcing that coverage.

But in medical care those tear jerker stories will still happen with obamacare. As companies stop providing medical coverage as a benefit, and instead sends people to exchanges....there will be people who will gamble when they have to physically write a check. When its taken out of a paycheck...thats one thing. But to take the money out of your checking account...well there is always something better to spend that money on. How many people are driving without car insurance right now just because of that same logic....they have to write the check...and after a while they seem to forget about writing that check.

Remember we are dealing with the same people who believed that they could afford mortgages that reasonable people would know was out of their reach. When the govt got involved in telling banks to loosen their requirements for qualification.......we got the housing industry meltdown......and now the the govt is getting into directing the medical insurance industry.......get ready for similar results.
Dalex64
Dalex64
Joined: Feb 10, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 1067
March 19th, 2014 at 1:16:02 PM permalink
The government required banks to loosen their qualifications?

I thought the industry demanded deregulation, then made a whole lot of bad loans and packaged them all together and sold them.
timberjim
timberjim
Joined: Dec 5, 2009
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 398
March 19th, 2014 at 1:37:34 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

The government required banks to loosen their qualifications?

I thought the industry demanded deregulation, then made a whole lot of bad loans and packaged them all together and sold them.



Nope. Not to derail this thread, but in a nutshell, lenders were required to lower their standards or be charged with discrimination. Income and credit worthiness became much less important. Instead of the standard 20% down payment needed, lenders started offering loans in excess of 100% of the value.

The feds then bought all this bad paper, so the lenders, builders, and developers were given a guaranteed (by the taxpayer) return. They churned out as much product as fast as they could. There was no where to go but the collapse.

By the way, I have worked in various facets of the development business since the 80s.
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
March 19th, 2014 at 1:40:48 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

The government required banks to loosen their qualifications?

I thought the industry demanded deregulation, then made a whole lot of bad loans and packaged them all together and sold them.

That Las Vegas guy didn't get screwed by Obamacare, he got screwed by Xerox. One way or another, that guy's bypass is going to be covered hopefully sooner rather than later. In other news, the guy had affordable health insurance thanks to Obamacare
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
March 19th, 2014 at 1:46:28 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim

Nope. Not to derail this thread, but in a nutshell, lenders were required to lower their standards or be charged with discrimination. Income and credit worthiness became much less important. Instead of the standard 20% down payment needed, lenders started offering loans in excess of 100% of the value.

The feds then bought all this bad paper, so the lenders, builders, and developers were given a guaranteed (by the taxpayer) return. They churned out as much product as fast as they could. There was no where to go but the collapse.

By the way, I have worked in various facets of the development business since the 80s.



You are correct. And its not derailing the thread because it shows what can happen when the govt gets involved.

obamacare is doing the same thing to the healthcare system as it did to the banking system/
Dalex64
Dalex64
Joined: Feb 10, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 1067
March 19th, 2014 at 1:54:25 PM permalink
I have been unable to find references to bankers being forced to accept loans in a manner in which you describe.

Some places I checked -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.investopedia.com/university/credit-crisis/credit-crisis4.asp

http://banking.about.com/od/mortgages/a/mortgagecrisis.htm

They all seem to agree that loans were given out too easily, but none of them indicate the cause of this was the government telling the banks that they had to make these loans.

If you could show me some links to some articles explaining that the government forced banks to make these loans, I would appreciate it. It would be very enlightening.
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
March 19th, 2014 at 2:04:31 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

I have been unable to find references to bankers being forced to accept loans in a manner in which you describe.

Some places I checked -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.investopedia.com/university/credit-crisis/credit-crisis4.asp

http://banking.about.com/od/mortgages/a/mortgagecrisis.htm

They all seem to agree that loans were given out too easily, but none of them indicate the cause of this was the government telling the banks that they had to make these loans.

If you could show me some links to some articles explaining that the government forced banks to make these loans, I would appreciate it. It would be very enlightening.




http://www.aei.org/outlook/economics/financial-services/housing-finance/free-fall-how-government-policies-brought-down-the-housing-market


just google mortgage meltdown government involvement
Dalex64
Dalex64
Joined: Feb 10, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 1067
March 19th, 2014 at 2:29:17 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

http://www.aei.org/outlook/economics/financial-services/housing-finance/free-fall-how-government-policies-brought-down-the-housing-market


just google mortgage meltdown government involvement



I googled exactly that. The first link is Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_policies_and_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis

I won't claim that Wikipedia by itself is unbiased and always accurate, but I think it usually does a reasonable job of presenting several sides of an argument, and backs up most of them with sources.

These two paragraphs I think accurately represent the basis of my understanding of the situation:

Quote:

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission issued three concluding documents in January 2011: 1) The FCIC "conclusions" or report from the six Democratic Commissioners; 2) a "dissenting statement" from the three Republican Commissioners; and 3) a second "dissenting statement" from Commissioner Peter Wallison. Both the Democratic majority conclusions and Republican minority dissenting statement, representing the views of nine of the ten commissioners, concluded that government housing policies had little to do with the crisis. The majority report stated that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac "were not a primary cause of the crisis" and that the Community Reinvestment Act "was not a significant factor in subprime lending or the crisis."[1] The three Republican authors of their dissenting statement wrote: "Credit spreads declined not just for housing, but also for other asset classes like commercial real estate. This tells us to look to the credit bubble as an essential cause of the U.S. housing bubble. It also tells us that problems with U.S. housing policy or markets do not by themselves explain the U.S. housing bubble."[1]
However, Commissioner Wallison's dissenting statement did place the blame squarely on government housing policies, which in his view contributed to an excessive number of high-risk mortgages: "...I believe that the sine qua non of the financial crisis was U.S. government housing policy, which led to the creation of 27 million subprime and other risky loans—half of all mortgages in the United States—which were ready to default as soon as the massive 1997-2007 housing bubble began to deflate. If the U.S. government had not chosen this policy path—fostering the growth of a bubble of unprecedented size and an equally unprecedented number of weak and high risk residential mortgages—the great financial crisis of 2008 would never have occurred."[1]



In that, you have 9 people out of 10 agreeing that government housing policies had little to do with the crisis.

The article you linked for me does support the idea that the government facilitated the issuing of bad loans.

There are certainly multiple contributing causes to the financial meltdown. It is a matter of differing opinion by many people as to which of those factors are most significant.

Anyway, there it is.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 229
  • Posts: 12735
March 19th, 2014 at 2:45:37 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

That Las Vegas guy didn't get screwed by Obamacare, he got screwed by Xerox. One way or another, that guy's bypass is going to be covered hopefully sooner rather than later. In other news, the guy had affordable health insurance thanks to Obamacare



Obamacare is so good that almost 3% of the population has signed up!
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
timberjim
timberjim
Joined: Dec 5, 2009
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 398
March 19th, 2014 at 2:45:52 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

I googled exactly that. The first link is Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_policies_and_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis

I won't claim that Wikipedia by itself is unbiased and always accurate, but I think it usually does a reasonable job of presenting several sides of an argument, and backs up most of them with sources.

These two paragraphs I think accurately represent the basis of my understanding of the situation:


In that, you have 9 people out of 10 agreeing that government housing policies had little to do with the crisis.

The article you linked for me does support the idea that the government facilitated the issuing of bad loans.

There are certainly multiple contributing causes to the financial meltdown. It is a matter of differing opinion by many people as to which of those factors are most significant.

Anyway, there it is.



9 out of 10 government appointed beaurcrats decided govenment policies did not impact this crisis.

Case solved.

Anyway, there it is!

  • Jump to: