Lifetime win/loss
Of course, I am DOWN, but that is to be expected: I play negative expectation games.
My question: do many/any others keep a record of their lifetime win/loss history?
The way I do it, I write down the date, the casino(s) played at, and my overall winnings at same that day; I write down the net result, win/loss, not the total amount bet through.
My hand-kept record is just for my own use, to "see how I'm doing."
Slots: Ahead, Considerably. (Between 5k-6k)
Video Poker: Down, Somewhat. ($800-$1,000)
Tournament Poker: Ahead, Somewhat. ($500-$750)
Hold 'Em (Limit): Ahead, Considerably. (Between 2k-3k)
Hold 'Em (No Limit): Down, Somewhat. (Between 1k-1.5k)
All Tables (I don't separate into games): Down, Somewhat. (1-1.5k)
*** I don't think I've ever hit for anything that good on Let It Ride, even though I love the game. My best hand ever was a Flush, and my first three cards were suited, but spread such that a straight was impossible, so I took back the first bet. I've hit for Black-29 (playing four corners) on Roulette a few times, but I'm still down overall. I'm a little ahead on my lifetime BJ action, but it's less than $500.
Lifetime: Ahead, between 5-5.5k.
Were it not for my two lifetime slots jackpots ($1,250, $4,000) I'd be about even for life. I should play more Limit Hold 'Em, but I don't actually like it very much. I would play more Tournament Poker, and enjoy that, but I don't have time. The times I am usually at the casino don't correlate to tournament schedules, anyway.
Lady Variance hates me on VP. I swear I know what I am doing! I just miss about 90% of my draws.
Or write a book about how to win at slots and sell it.
Quote: JuyemuraMission, based upon your results you should only play the slots! The higher denomination the better! You have obviously figured out a winning strategy.
Or write a book about how to win at slots and sell it.
I should end up down eventually. Lady Variance has just been in my corner with respect to hitting Jackpots.
I don't have a winning strategy, just a solid betting strategy and the ability to walk away ahead, even if only by a few bucks. I'll still end up down for life at some point, absent anymore jackpots.
I would say that I should only play Limit Hold 'Em as I have clearly demonstrated both patience and skill in that game. Actually, patience is synonymous with skill there, all you have to do is be patient and not get bored and start betting on crap. I get bored anyway, but if I'm playing, it's because I want a bankroll boost, so I'm disciplined.
If I hit a jackpot that gets in me in the paper, then I might slap some lies together and call it a book, put the jackpot picture from the newspaper on the cover, pretend I haven't had a normal job in six years...I'm kidding, I'd never do that.
Quote: MrVI have kept a record of my lifetime win/loss history since shortly after I started gambling.
Of course, I am DOWN, but that is to be expected: I play negative expectation games.
My question: do many/any others keep a record of their lifetime win/loss history?
The way I do it, I write down the date, the casino(s) played at, and my overall winnings at same that day; I write down the net result, win/loss, not the total amount bet through.
My hand-kept record is just for my own use, to "see how I'm doing."
I've done the same as you and I know the exact amount I've won over the years at blackjack. I've never played any other game even for fun.
Quote: 1BBI've done the same as you and I know the exact amount I've won over the years at blackjack. I've never played any other game even for fun.
Well, how much?
9/6 jacks or better
no limit poker (live, not online)
blackjack
craps
i dont separate. i just keep an overall daily +/- sheet.
before that, i was breakeven. then didnt gamble at all for years. then had a sweat deal for Vegas last year.
then Charlestown opened. then Resorts World in NYC, and now Maryland Live. (Altho i am up 1000 in Maryland Live, all on e-craps.)
Quote: casinomegamallI have played much games, But i don't like to kept records for winnings and lost. I have just played for fun.
You would do well to start keeping such records. If you ever have a win upon which you must file taxes, you can lose your losses to offset it, even to zero, but you must have some kind of record. If you do not have one result in a year where you must pay taxes, then technically you should still file on wins, but you'd obviously never get caught if you didn't because the IRS as no paper on you.
I would recommend keeping the records though if you ever go so much as near VP or a Slot Machine. You never know when you'll hit a handpay and want to offset.
At the end of the tax year, I contact the casino and request a win/loss report, based on my tracked action.
I use it for tax purposes, totalling the wins, totalling the losses, and reporting each in the appropriate spot on my 1040 and schedule A.
Quote: MrVOne good thing about always logging in your player's card while gambling is that it gives the casino the ability to track your overall wins and losses.
At the end of the tax year, I contact the casino and request a win/loss report, based on my tracked action.
I use it for tax purposes, totalling the wins, totalling the losses, and reporting each in the appropriate spot on my 1040 and schedule A.
I'm reasonably certain that your own win/loss diary is a more acceptable document for the IRS than the casino's win/loss history. I know for me, the casinos sometimes have wildly inaccurate reports from my table game play (how close of attention do the pit bosses really pay to how much you walk away with, how many times you re-buy, etc.?). Obviously with slots it should be accurate as long as you use your players card every time.
To the original topic, I started keeping a detailed spreadsheet once I started counting cards and making other advantage plays. I back-filled the spreadsheet with what I could remember from the past, which is pretty accurate. Currently I have a lifetime win. About 8K from craps, about 5K from blackjack (including before I started counting cards). About a thousand at sports. Nothing notable from any other games. What can I say, I've been lucking at -EV games and competent at +EV ones. If I keep playing craps I'm sure my total will eventually go negative, but I try not to play much anymore.
Quote: MrV
I use it for tax purposes, totalling the wins, totalling the losses, and reporting each in the appropriate spot on my 1040 and schedule A.
Except they don't let you do this. If you ever get audited,
they will throw those numbers out and make you produce
a detailed log of your play. If you can't, and most can't,
you'll be taxed on every dime of your winnings. And most
states won't let you deduct your losses at all. If you win
a $2K jackpot and stick ir right back in the nachine, you'll
be taxed on the whole $2K, it will be part of your gross
income. Some states allow you to file as a pro gambler,
but if you have income from any other source than gambling,
they will usually deny letting you file as a pro.
Quote: EvenBobExcept they don't let you do this. If you ever get audited,
they will throw those numbers out and make you produce
a detailed log of your play. If you can't, and most can't,
you'll be taxed on every dime of your winnings. And most
states won't let you deduct your losses at all. If you win
a $2K jackpot and stick ir right back in the nachine, you'll
be taxed on the whole $2K, it will be part of your gross
income. Some states allow you to file as a pro gambler,
but if you have income from any other source than gambling,
they will usually deny letting you file as a pro.
They won't let you do what? You don't submit your detailed log of play with your tax returns, you report your winnings and losses on your returns just like MrV said and hope you don't get audited. If you do get audited, then you produce whatever you have and go from there.
What kind of specific records you keep is important, yes, but the process he described for initial reporting is correct.
Quote: AcesAndEightsThey won't let you do what? .
From the IRS website:
"You may deduct gambling losses only if you itemize deductions. However, the amount of losses you deduct may not be more than the amount of gambling income reported on your return... It is important to keep an accurate diary or similar record of your gambling winnings and losses. To deduct your losses, you must be able to provide receipts, tickets, statements or other records that show the amount of both your winnings and losses."
If you get audited, they can and will go back 7 years
and demand your detailed diaries for all the years you
claimed losses. You can put anything you like on a
1040, getting away with it is something else. Putting
your total wins and deducting your total losses and
thinking you did something constructive, without the
properly kept documents to back it up, is asking for
trouble.
Anyone gone through a tax audit where this was an issue?
Just FYI, I own a business (chapter S corp) and do all my own reporting and taxes...so I'm pretty familiar with the byzantine workings of the IRS.
I've gambled in a serious way since 2004. I keep a paper log of every trip and then enter that data into an excel spreadsheet. Following info included. Date of Trip: Money in; money out; win/loss per session and a net win/loss for the trip. Add it up at end of year and viola' there's your year end number. I don't keep the original paper notes (they are just scratch pads from the casinos mostly), and I do print year end won/loss statements from the various places I play. The casinos win/loss statements mostly jibe with my logs, but not 100%. Trust me, my numbers are more accurate. Frankly the pit supervisors accounting of my wins/losses are spotty at best. The difference is usually close to a wash. Some casinos will over estimate my wins, some underestimate them, and I've been lucky enough to end up pretty close for the year (within a couple of hundred). So I report on my 1040 the net number, that I have, backed by trip reports, and casino generated win/loss statements. Usually less than 5K per year one way or the other. That's it..I've never been audited by the IRS(knock wood). My question is does that rise to the level of proof? It's not like if I drop 1,000 playing blackjack they give me a receipt...or if I win a $1,000 for that matter. That's what year end statements are for. But since I question the accuracy of the casinos reporting. What's an honest gambler to do?
Now these figures do not include sports betting losses. Since I moved to Vegas 3 year ago, I have engaged in some sportsbetting and have accumulated some losses I am sure. I am not a big time bettor, usually betting $100, very rarely just a bit more. So my expected loss is probably a dollar or two per event. Betting 10 football games over the coarse of a weekend costs me $20 in EV. I chalk that up to entertainment expense. I would estimate I am down a thousand dollars over the 3 years.
How?
Quote: vendman1I report on my 1040 the net number, that I have, backed by trip reports, and casino generated win/loss statements. Usually less than 5K per year one way or the other. That's it..I've never been audited by the IRS(knock wood). My question is does that rise to the level of proof?
I believe your reporting method is flawed.
You need to declare all winnings, and then deduct all losses.
Winnings are reported as income on form 1040, line 21; losses are deducted on schedule A, line 28.
Do not list only the net.
Quote: mwalz9People on this forum really "make a living" gambling?
How?
How much is knowing worth to you?
Quote: 1BBSeven figures.
Not possible. Haven't you heard? AP blackjack play is dead. You probably just forgot to carry a 1 or something :)
(In all seriousness, congrats)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceNot possible. Haven't you heard? AP blackjack play is dead. You probably just forgot to carry a 1 or something :)
(In all seriousness, congrats)
Nah, he's including that extra fifty cents in the figures.
I don't doubt your figure, but if PaigowDan finds out about this
he is going to be pissed!
Quote: MrVQuote: vendman1I report on my 1040 the net number, that I have, backed by trip reports, and casino generated win/loss statements. Usually less than 5K per year one way or the other. That's it..I've never been audited by the IRS(knock wood). My question is does that rise to the level of proof?
I believe your reporting method is flawed.
You need to declare all winnings, and then deduct all losses.
Winnings are reported as income on form 1040, line 21; losses are deducted on schedule A, line 28.
Do not list only the net.
Quote: vendman1Interesting, Mr V. you may well be right. I've thought about doing it the way you mention above. But I started listing only the net years ago (2004) and have done it that way ever since without incident. Didn't want to rock the boat. In my business experience with the IRS and State of MD. I've always been told, "account for it however it makes sense in your business, but do it consistently from period to period and you'll be OK". So that's what I've been doing. Food for thought, thanks again.
Regarding the conversation above, I'm going to have a rough go of it on my taxes this year, I think. I really want to do it the way vendman1 has been doing it, because I don't have enough other itemized deductions to make up for the standard deduction. So essentially if I itemize to do it the "right" way I'm going to take a monetary hit. I'm leaning toward just doing it the "wrong" way (netting out everything on the 1040) and crossing my fingers. It's stupid anyway, considering the mathematical concept of a "session" is retarded. Gee I just had one gambling session for the year, and this is what I won! Taking it to the opposite extreme, are you supposed to record every single winning bet you made in the wins column, and then every single losing bet in the losses column? Again, stupid.
I'll probably run the numbers each way and see how big the difference is. Also, I've had Tax Help for Gamblers sitting on my night stand since Anne Freid-Lefton was a guest on GWAE (I thought she wrote the book? I guess I was mistaken). Planning on reading through that before hitting the forms.
Lastly, question for you vendman1. Did you ever, to your knowledge, generate a CTR? I generated at least 2 this year at banks, which I think increases my chances of being audited.
Quote: AcesAndEightsRegarding the conversation above, I'm going to have a rough go of it on my taxes this year, I think. I really want to do it the way vendman1 has been doing it, because I don't have enough other itemized deductions to make up for the standard deduction. So essentially if I itemize to do it the "right" way I'm going to take a monetary hit. I'm leaning toward just doing it the "wrong" way (netting out everything on the 1040) and crossing my fingers. It's stupid anyway, considering the mathematical concept of a "session" is retarded. Gee I just had one gambling session for the year, and this is what I won! Taking it to the opposite extreme, are you supposed to record every single winning bet you made in the wins column, and then every single losing bet in the losses column? Again, stupid.
I'll probably run the numbers each way and see how big the difference is. Also, I've had Tax Help for Gamblers sitting on my night stand since Anne Freid-Lefton was a guest on GWAE (I thought she wrote the book? I guess I was mistaken). Planning on reading through that before hitting the forms.
Lastly, question for you vendman1. Did you ever, to your knowledge, generate a CTR? I generated at least 2 this year at banks, which I think increases my chances of being audited.
AcesandEights,
Yeah I've generated a CTR three or four times. Always on large cash outs at the cage. Once a long time ago...and again in 2009, and 2011. So far nothing, in terms of an audit(no news is good news!!) I'm not an expert (but do have a finance degree), and it's my understanding that CTR's are mostly used to track patterns of large cash transaction(s). So one or two probably draws little notice. As long as some sort of corresponding monies are on your tax return somewhere, somehow. It's probably all good. Banks and other financial institutions (including casinos obviously), must file millions of them a year.
Side Note: My faith in the IRS to track CTR's accurately is limited. My faith in the IRS to do much of anything right is limited. Try calling them and asking them a business related tax question, if you talk to three different "specialists" you'll get three different answers. I just try to do things in a simple and consistent manner. I have been audited by the State of MD before, but never the feds. It went fine. Tedious but fine.
Side Side Note: The overly complex tax code in the US is one of the major drains on our society IMHO. Only those individuals with know how/resources can exploit it. The average individual or small business owner is screwed. Steve Forbes once said you should be able to do your taxes on the back of a postcard, I agree. It would save BILLIONS in processing costs I'm sure. Sorry for thread derail.
detailed records, but I haven't.
So, New Year's Resolution,
among others, is to record
that for the entire year. I was
up a little at Horseshoe SI
on my last trip, but that was in
the end of 2012.
Quote: vendman1Quote: AcesAndEightsRegarding the conversation above, I'm going to have a rough go of it on my taxes this year, I think. I really want to do it the way vendman1 has been doing it, because I don't have enough other itemized deductions to make up for the standard deduction. So essentially if I itemize to do it the "right" way I'm going to take a monetary hit. I'm leaning toward just doing it the "wrong" way (netting out everything on the 1040) and crossing my fingers. It's stupid anyway, considering the mathematical concept of a "session" is retarded. Gee I just had one gambling session for the year, and this is what I won! Taking it to the opposite extreme, are you supposed to record every single winning bet you made in the wins column, and then every single losing bet in the losses column? Again, stupid.
I'll probably run the numbers each way and see how big the difference is. Also, I've had Tax Help for Gamblers sitting on my night stand since Anne Freid-Lefton was a guest on GWAE (I thought she wrote the book? I guess I was mistaken). Planning on reading through that before hitting the forms.
Lastly, question for you vendman1. Did you ever, to your knowledge, generate a CTR? I generated at least 2 this year at banks, which I think increases my chances of being audited.
AcesandEights,
Yeah I've generated a CTR three or four times. Always on large cash outs at the cage. Once a long time ago...and again in 2009, and 2011. So far nothing, in terms of an audit(no news is good news!!) I'm not an expert (but do have a finance degree), and it's my understanding that CTR's are mostly used to track patterns of large cash transaction(s). So one or two probably draws little notice. As long as some sort of corresponding monies are on your tax return somewhere, somehow. It's probably all good. Banks and other financial institutions (including casinos obviously), must file millions of them a year.
Side Note: My faith in the IRS to track CTR's accurately is limited. My faith in the IRS to do much of anything right is limited. Try calling them and asking them a business related tax question, if you talk to three different "specialists" you'll get three different answers. I just try to do things in a simple and consistent manner. I have been audited by the State of MD before, but never the feds. It went fine. Tedious but fine.
Side Side Note: The overly complex tax code in the US is one of the major drains on our society IMHO. Only those individuals with know how/resources can exploit it. The average individual or small business owner is screwed. Steve Forbes once said you should be able to do your taxes on the back of a postcard, I agree. It would save BILLIONS in processing costs I'm sure. Sorry for thread derail.
Are CTRs even furnished to the IRS? My understanding was that they were to look for things like money laundering. If the IRS wants something to be reported, they require some form of W-2 or 1099 (like the W-2Gs you get if you hit a payout of $1200 on any machine game. I got one when I hit a progressive VP royal)
CTRs do not necessarily mean that income was earned (which is why I don't think the IRS cares). If you buy in for $10k and lose it all, isn't there still a CTR to be filled out?
To answer your last question..if you bought 10K of chips at a table...there would be no CTR...there would be one when you took the 10K out of your bank in the first place..and/or when you cashed the 10K at the cage. This is why people often try to stay below the 10K limit....lots of 9K transactions I suspect.
Funnily enough, what you are referring to ("structuring") gets reported to a different department (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act#Currency_Transaction_Report_.28CTR.29
Quote: vendman1....lots of 9K transactions I suspect.
Which is how Rush Limbaugh got busted :)
Quote: AcesAndEightsWhich is how Rush Limbaugh got busted :)
Really?...I assume you mean the drug(s) incident?....i didn't know that. He's a fat blowhard. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Quote: vendman1Really?...I assume you mean the drug(s) incident?....i didn't know that. He's a fat blowhard. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Eh, I had heard that, but can only find one source to back it up
PATRIOT ACT USED TO SNAG RUSH LIMBAUGH?
Quote:Radio commentator Rush Limbaugh, for instance, reportedly is being investigated by Palm Beach, Fla., authorities for “structuring” – that is, withdrawing money from his bank accounts just below the $10,000 threshold under which banks are required to report cash transactions to the government. There are provisions against “structuring” in both federal and Florida money-laundering laws.
“I was not laundering money,” Limbaugh said on his radio show in November, just after coming back from treatment for addiction to prescription pain pills. “I was withdrawing money, for crying out loud!”
That doesn’t matter, says Charles Intriago, publisher of the Money Laundering Alert newsletter, and it also doesn’t matter for what Limbaugh was withdrawing his money.
“He could have gone out and bought rosaries for Mother Teresa’s convent,” Intriago tells Insight. “It doesn’t matter what he was doing with the money; the crime is in the structuring.” Intriago, a former federal prosecutor, says if the allegations are true Limbaugh could and should be prosecuted for structuring.
“The United States government decided that it’s of extremely high value for the enforcement agencies of the United States to have reports that are filed reflecting the withdrawal or deposit of more than $10,000. … Therefore, the public policy of the United States as reflected in the law that President Reagan signed is that it should be made a crime for people to structure their transactions to avoid or evade the filing of that form.”
Be aware that continually withdrawing amounts under $10K with the intent to avoid a CTR is a crime. Pretty silly law if you ask me, since you have to prove intent.
Quote: AcesAndEightsBe aware that continually withdrawing amounts under $10K with the intent to avoid a CTR is a crime. Pretty silly law if you ask me, since you have to prove intent.
The crime is called "Construction" and it is reported on a "Suspicious Activity Report (SAR)."
http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/news/FinCENSARElectronicFilingRequirements.pdf
Quote: vendman1Really?...I assume you mean the drug(s) incident?....i didn't know that. He's a fat blowhard. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Wonder how lard ass feels about Hillary actually having a concussion and a blood clot. Fatso had said the concussion was just a fabrication. But the Dittoheads will still worship !
Two big wins: +19,250
Rest of my life (net): -20,200
Quote: GHQuote: AcesAndEightsBe aware that continually withdrawing amounts under $10K with the intent to avoid a CTR is a crime. Pretty silly law if you ask me, since you have to prove intent.
The crime is called "Construction" and it is reported on a "Suspicious Activity Report (SAR)."
http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/news/FinCENSARElectronicFilingRequirements.pdf
Yep that happens to me with my business. I'm in the vending machine business and regularly deposit between 7-9K cash several times a week. My bank had me fill out paperwork (can't remember name of form). That basically said. "this customer is known to us and we believe his deposits to result from regular and legal transaction of business"....otherwise they were going to have to file SAR's everytime I did a bank deposit. A gas station owner I know had to do the same paperwork. God bless the government.
