Comp Strategies / Casino Differences /Favorites
With that out of the way, I was wondering if there is either a definitive guide or any thoughts on how different casinos provide offers and comps relative to their competition. For example, it's been my experience that certain casinos will only offer you a buffet if you drop thousands- while others will give you free-play and bonus bets galore for the same action. These promotional offerings are the only way I can hope to stay ahead of the game, so I of course look to maximize them where I can.
Specifically, I'm interested in any thoughts on the following:
1. Is there a limit to what promos a casino may offer? In other words, does it make sense to split a session between, say, 3 casinos instead of giving all of your action to just one?
2. What casinos do people find provide the best promotional offers? I find both Greektown and MotorCity in Detroit both provide excellent offers- and of course realize many on this board probably haven't visited those properties.
3. Does anyone know of a resource that attempts to rank properties?
With the proliferation of gambling, I think "competition is good" and offers should get better.
From what I've heard, the best casinos for comps were, until recently, probably the M, the Wynn, the LV Hilton, and maybe Palace Station. Of those, I've only stayed at the LV Hilton, so it's the only one I'm really qualified to comment on. Here's the thing, though: Earlier this year, LV Hilton changed ownership, became LVH, and changed their player's club. They took out their big table Baccarat games at the same time (which were the best in town, IMO) and I haven't stayed there since, nor do I plan to. I am told that they are now much tighter with their comps, but can't comment from personal experience there.
What a casino can or will comp you seems to be at least partially at the discretion of the hosts. They'll have a range of things available at your tier, but a lot of things are up to your host and the host's supervisor. Like with anything involving comps, you usually have to ask. I stayed at the LV Hilton for years because I had such a great relationship with their hosts.
Somewhere, I have at least one copy of a pamphlet that the Hilton gave out explaining their comps. Since I feel like I've thoroughly abused their comps, I can probably provide you with at least some of the info from memory. I stayed there about a dozen times between 1998 and 2010 and things seemed to stay pretty consistent over that period.
Four hours of black-chip Baccarat per day was enough to get your room comped and cover your meals. Free upgrades to suites and free buffets every day. I used to get show tickets, too, but it's probably been ten years since I've had that happen. I think that the amount to bet at table games to get your room comped at the Hilton was probably about $2500-$3500 a day. I never had any problem getting shopping cards but I always had to ask. I usually couldn't get more than a $300 card without a call to a supervisor. I always got the limo from and to the airport but I think that that's a fairly easy comp to get.
Even if they are tighter now, I would be surprised if that level of play did not at least get you a room and buffet meals. Plus, do you really want to go to Las Vegas and then only play for four hours a day? I know that I'm more likely to put in eight or ten at the tables, minimum.
On a related note, does anyone know anywhere in Las Vegas where I can still use my HHonors points? I got a letter from the LVH back in January (around the time they changed hands) telling me that my points would still be good at LVH until April, but only good elsewhere after. But I don't know anyone else who takes those points.
Quote: heatherOn a related note, does anyone know anywhere in Las Vegas where I can still use my HHonors points? I got a letter from the LVH back in January (around the time they changed hands) telling me that my points would still be good at LVH until April, but only good elsewhere after. But I don't know anyone else who takes those points.
Not to highjack the thread (any more, that is), but can you convert your HHonors to something else? Like frequent flier miles, perhaps? Better yet, though I don't suppose it's possible, to Priority Rewards points? The latter I think are good at the Venetian/Palazzo.
Quote: TheBigPaybakSpecifically, I'm interested in any thoughts on the following:
1. Is there a limit to what promos a casino may offer? In other words, does it make sense to split a session between, say, 3 casinos instead of giving all of your action to just one?
This depends on what the promos are and what your long term goals with those casinos are. If a promo is that good, you should take advantage of it. But if you're only going for advantage plays, then you'll be hopping around a lot anyways.
Quote: TheBigPaybak2. What casinos do people find provide the best promotional offers? I find both Greektown and MotorCity in Detroit both provide excellent offers- and of course realize many on this board probably haven't visited those properties.
What do you define as an "excellent offer?" Every market values different things; for instance, free play bounceback is far more important to a Vegas locals casino than it is to the Strip casinos. However, package deals (comp room, free play and food vouchers) wouldn't necessarily make sense at a locals casino.
Detroit probably has decent offers, but I would be shocked if you could call them excellent in the big scheme of things...
Quote: TheBigPaybak3. Does anyone know of a resource that attempts to rank properties?
Sometimes you can find the information on here... there are plenty of websites out there that focus on the deals; Las Vegas Advisor does a good job for LV. Nationwide it will be much harder to compare, but then again, you'd be comparing apples to oranges.
Quote: TheBigPaybakWith the proliferation of gambling, I think "competition is good" and offers should get better.
This is where, sadly, you are wrong. Competition CAN provide the opportunities, unless the markets are locked. Take the Strip for example; you have over 30 casinos in a small radius, about half of which are owned by two giant companies. Strip properties rarely compete for business, though Tropicana and Riviera are easily the exceptions to those rules.
Still, in Midwest and other markets, competition doesn't necessarily keep the casinos active in their promotions. They figure people will gamble anyways, so why offer anything to get people in the door?
Quote: heatherFrom what I've heard, the best casinos for comps were, until recently, probably the M, the Wynn, the LV Hilton, and maybe Palace Station.
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind if I get to Vegas soon. I do like the Wynn.
Quote: heatherWhat a casino can or will comp you seems to be at least partially at the discretion of the hosts. They'll have a range of things available at your tier, but a lot of things are up to your host and the host's supervisor. Like with anything involving comps, you usually have to ask. I stayed at the LV Hilton for years because I had such a great relationship with their hosts.
It's always good to be reminded of this, as most places I frequent have "automatic" comps, so asking a host may get you something on top of what you normally earn.
Quote: TiltpoulThis depends on what the promos are and what your long term goals with those casinos are. If a promo is that good, you should take advantage of it. But if you're only going for advantage plays, then you'll be hopping around a lot anyways.
I suppose I was thinking of just the general comps that accrue with play: not any goal-based promotion.
Quote: TiltpoulWhat do you define as an "excellent offer?" Every market values different things; for instance, free play bounceback is far more important to a Vegas locals casino than it is to the Strip casinos. However, package deals (comp room, free play and food vouchers) wouldn't necessarily make sense at a locals casino.
Detroit probably has decent offers, but I would be shocked if you could call them excellent in the big scheme of things...
My main interests are Free Slot Play and Table Game Bonus Play. An "Excellent Offer" would be an amount of Free Play or Bonus Play given by a casino for a certain amount of play relative to all other casinos. As I don't track my actual play in a detailed fashion, it would be hard to describe how many average units in Bonus Play or Free Play equivalent was doled out through the various offers- although I can say that there is *definitely* a pecking order and it's *better* to play at certain places versus others: night and day and it's significant.
To try and give an example, would $1000 average bet at PaiGow Poker over 4 hours yielding $2500 in Bonus Play(coupons you can play as real money) by a good offer?
Quote: TiltpoulThis is where, sadly, you are wrong. Competition CAN provide the opportunities, unless the markets are locked. Take the Strip for example; you have over 30 casinos in a small radius, about half of which are owned by two giant companies. Strip properties rarely compete for business, though Tropicana and Riviera are easily the exceptions to those rules.
Still, in Midwest and other markets, competition doesn't necessarily keep the casinos active in their promotions. They figure people will gamble anyways, so why offer anything to get people in the door?
Certainly Vegas plays by its own rules, or at least I would think it would.
With regard to the Midwest, I disagree: I travel to gamble- and they send me offers to do so- and I think lately the offers have been better as new casinos have opened and the economy has somewhat improved. They have been the best in my lifetime and while I've gambled some more lately, past comparable sessions weren't "rewarded" nearly as much.
Quote: TheBigPaybakI suppose I was thinking of just the general comps that accrue with play: not any goal-based promotion.
My main interests are Free Slot Play and Table Game Bonus Play.
You can check with the player clubs to get exact details, but a standard I noticed for MGM properties (M Life) was that every $1 in slot play was worth 1 point. Every point was then worth $.01 in free play. So for every $1000 you gambled, you'd get the equivalent of $10.00 in free slot play.
As for table games, you'd have to ask the hosts how they determine their rating. My general rule of thumb is if your minimum bet is always $150, you'll get your room and food comped. I have no idea what the requirement is to get free table game play.
Quote: SACRYou can check with the player clubs to get exact details, but a standard I noticed for MGM properties (M Life) was that every $1 in slot play was worth 1 point. Every point was then worth $.01 in free play. So for every $1000 you gambled, you'd get the equivalent of $10.00 in free slot play.
As for table games, you'd have to ask the hosts how they determine their rating. My general rule of thumb is if your minimum bet is always $150, you'll get your room and food comped. I have no idea what the requirement is to get free table game play.
Yes, while many places have well-defined slot club formulas, their promotional formulas remain a mystery, which relies on players to provide anecdotal experiences to try and find the better places to play.
Part of what I'm asking is that at least for me, promotional offers are key for me to have a chance in staying ahead of the game- and casinos are vastly different in what they offer- at least that's what I think.
I think you can play the same amount of time and lose/win the same amount at two places playing the same games with the same odds and receive two greatly different promotional offers. At one end of the spectrum may be the California card rooms where you can drop 10k and get nothing- and other places where doing that same action may yield you quite a bit back.
I suppose part of it is an attempt on certain casinos to build customer loyalty versus just making a quick buck: they're taking a long-term approach.
I would answer that for the Mid-West, both Greektown and Motorcity are excellent- and the Seneca casinos are also very good.
For AC, the Trump properties seem to be OK relative to the rest.
On the East Coast, it's not even close: Harrah's Chester (Philly).Quote: TheBigPaybak...and maybe a better way to have started this thread would have been: For a particular district/locale, which casinos do you feel treat players the best with respect to promotional slot play and table game play?
In Vegas, it is completely scattershot (at least in my experience, and I am not a high-roller). But I have gotten good free play offers from Four Queens, Circus Circus (!), Tuscany, and the Coast Casinos, especially Suncoast. Golden Nugget is also very good. In Vegas, I like to spread my action around and see what sticks. Haven't been able to discern any pattern as to offers thus far. (Last trip played heavy at Binion's as as I heard they had good offers, but have gotten zilch from them. Go figure.)
In the Midwest, I agree Greektown and MotorCity are very solid. Windsor has given me lots of good stuff in the past (although not presently). The Chicago/Indiana/Rest of Michigan casinos are pretty piddling (save Rising Star Indiana, which is decent). MGM Grand Detroit -- forget it.
Quote: teddysOn the East Coast, it's not even close: Harrah's Chester (Philly).
Good to know!
Quote: teddysIn the Midwest, I agree Greektown and MotorCity are very solid. Windsor has given me lots of good stuff in the past (although not presently). MGM Grand Detroit -- forget it.
This has been my experience, too, although maybe it varies for others? I've only recently began playing again at Motorcity as it appears they've changed their offer policy dramatically versus what it was years ago- although I have no idea when it changed unless it was when they launched their MC/Miles program.
The only reason I can see playing at MGM or Windsor may be for some cross-over effect if you plan to travel to other MGM/Caesars properties. That said, if I would have played at either of those versus GT/Motorcity recently, I would likely be out a significant (thousands) amount of money.
As a general rule, get a players card because even a host with clout can't do anything if you are not in their computer system.
Comps vary as casinos often prefer slot players to table game players. If you play table games, go where you are appreciated.
If for any reason you feel unappreciated, going elsewhere is a good option but always speak up.
SouthPoint has a very attractive comp system but for a great many tourists its simply too remote from "Vegas", yet there even if ALL your action was at table games, you get some slot points as well.
The M is considered generous but its a trek for that comped buffet. As always, "weekday" rooms are easier to get comped than "weekend" rooms.
It depends what comps are valuable to you. Treking anywhere just for comps is usually foolhardy. Treking anywhere for freebie trinkets is absurd. Visiting other casinos is good to keep you aware of what is going on, but concentrating your action is generally best if you want to maintain RFB status.
Some hosts are willing to "invest" in players who they think have a future, some are not.
Quote: FleaStiffIt depends what comps are valuable to you. Treking anywhere just for comps is usually foolhardy. .
I generally drive 2.5-3 hours to play, and I generally do so only when the offers are good. I find value in FreePlay and TablePlay. If the offers are $500 or better, I will be there. If they are between $300 and $500, I will generally be there too. Less than that, and it would depend on if I'm feeling up to it based on recent trips.
Among my better properties here in Vegas are Palms, Station Casino, and M resort, Eastside Cannery (<-surprise). Although M resort is working their way down to my second tier of properties. Their offers are slowly declining in value. Their Blackjack has deteriorated as well in recent months, not to mention they are sweatier with backoffs. They are on the decline in my book, although the buffet is still outstanding.
Quote: kewljLiving in Vegas, part of my AP income is what I call bonus chasing. I spread my play out to get small amounts from many places. It's all about the bounce-back or mailers, not what your actual play 'earns'. Most of my blackjack play is anonymous, so that generates zero return. But I do have a rotation of 12-16, mostly local type place that give strong to decent mailer, bounce-back bonus for moderate amount of machine play. For example, if I play $2000 worth of video poker on a full pay machine, the expected cost (loss) is about $10. While that play will generate a little bit in comps and points, maybe a buck or two, it will generate $40-$80 in free play in the next mailer depending on the place. Unfortunately some places actually profile and females and asians, which I am neither, benefit more. The trick is to stay within your predetermined amounts and learn what the returns are. I actually count my hands played until I reach the desired amount.
Among my better properties here in Vegas are Palms, Station Casino, and M resort, Eastside Cannery (<-surprise). Although M resort is working their way down to my second tier of properties. Their offers are slowly declining in value. Their Blackjack has deteriorated as well in recent months, not to mention they are sweatier with backoffs. They are on the decline in my book, although the buffet is still outstanding.
Interesting! Certainly a lot more options if you're a Vegas local, and it's more evidence there's a certain minimum threshold of play to receive certain mailers, lower than what your expected loss would be. That's interesting on the lower-end, although I'm curious what limits there are on the higher-end: what's the sweet-spot on "moderate" gambling as it seems clear the mailer scale isn't directly proportional to play, rather it's tiered between certain limits. Knowing where those limits are and splitting your action appropriately would be the ideal case.
Quote: TheBigPaybakInteresting! Certainly a lot more options if you're a Vegas local, and it's more evidence there's a certain minimum threshold of play to receive certain mailers, lower than what your expected loss would be. That's interesting on the lower-end, although I'm curious what limits there are on the higher-end: what's the sweet-spot on "moderate" gambling as it seems clear the mailer scale isn't directly proportional to play, rather it's tiered between certain limits. Knowing where those limits are and splitting your action appropriately would be the ideal case.
Exactly the point I was trying to make, but don't think I did such a good job. If you were to triple or quadruple your investment, The return in bonus from the mailer would not triple or quadruple. Not proportional. You actually benefit by playing the lower end at many places.
Quote: kewljExactly the point I was trying to make, but don't think I did such a good job. If you were to triple or quadruple your investment, The return in bonus from the mailer would not triple or quadruple. Not proportional. You actually benefit by playing the lower end at many places.
It's a good strategy if you live at a location that allows you to do it! On the lower-end, it would be much easier to figure out things versus the higher end, which I'm still curious about. And once you do figure things out, they might change things up anyway, of course...
Anyone else have insight on the use of a player's card other than your own to do FreePlay? What if you hit a jackpot- will they deny you the jackpot or bar you from the player's club?
No. This is a unique feature of Horsheshoe casinos.Quote: supermaxhdI play BlackJack at HorseShoe Indiana. I get reward credits on my players card for amount of play and I have no idea what the formula is. I still often ask the pitt boss to write me a food coupon usually for $15 or $30. When I ask for comps directly during table play does it reduce the reward credits I get on my players card?
Quote: teddysNo. This is a unique feature of Horsheshoe casinos.
Thats good to know. I am always polite to the dealers and pitt boss and everyone and that helps. I usually ask early about getting a a food comp if I stick around for a while. I find that helps. I only play BlackJack and pretty much break even. The comps to me are pretty much my winnings, so I like to get my room, monthly coupons usually good for a tank of gas, and food comped.
Betting more when the pit boss is watching, is that a succesful strategy for increasing comps?
Geez. Many times I wished I would break even!Quote: supermaxhdThats good to know. I am always polite to the dealers and pitt boss and everyone and that helps. I usually ask early about getting a a food comp if I stick around for a while. I find that helps. I only play BlackJack and pretty much break even.
