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billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 28th, 2020 at 10:59:46 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I thought "skimming" or extortion was the business end of the mob? A real business was used for money laundering.




Times change. Once upon a time, the numbers were a large source of income, but that is almost non-existent these days. The businesses like newsstands and pizza parlors used to bring in a lot of cash, but who reads magazines and with America's love affair with plastic, you have to adapt. When I started in the bar business, hardly anyone took credit cards, and cigarette sales were a substantial source of revenue, as were video games and the jukebox. Most jukeboxes don't use cash these days, cigarettes are banned and coin video games aren't all that popular.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 28th, 2020 at 11:00:12 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Everyone you work with is trying to rip everyone they work with off.
Very few of these guys have money at any given time. It is not an easy life.



I have a friend in his mid 80's who
has a ton of Mob stories from the
50's. He lived in Brooklyn and bought
porn from Mob guys to sell in his
school. In his early 20's they let him
hang with them and run errands,
like fencing stuff at pawn shops. He
was Jewish and a kid so he always
got away with it.

He says most of the guys he knew
were not HS dropouts, they were
grade school dropouts. They would
sit around in the back room playing
cards all day, dressed in $500 suits,
concocting plans to make money that
were 95% totally ridiculous. Once in
a while they had a good idea.

My friend found them interesting for
awhile, but eventually their incredible
stupidity drove him away. For instance,
they would tell the same jokes over
and over, and always laugh at them.
They were so dumb they thought
they were geniuses. Like AZD said,
they mostly were always broke, they would
spend the money as fast as it came
in so they were always looking for
new ways to commit crimes.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 28th, 2020 at 12:08:23 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob



He says most of the guys he knew
were not HS dropouts, they were
grade school dropouts. They would
sit around in the back room playing
cards all day, dressed in $500 suits,
concocting plans to make money that
were 95% totally ridiculous. Once in
a while they had a good idea.



I have heard that when you get these guys out of the social club they are very shy and reserved. They know they are uneducated and not very smart. This is why the ones who are intelligent get pulled from the muscle end and get put in charge of the rackets. Almost anyone can stick a gun in someone's face. It takes intelligence and personality to both corrupt a union and keep them in order after control has been gained. You do not have to be a genius to take bets over the phone but you do have to be one to make sure the action is balanced and settle up with your layoffs. And of course to either front or deal with the front man in a business you had better at least be literate and know the basics.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 28th, 2020 at 12:12:16 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I thought “skimming” or extortion was the business end of the mob? A real business was used for money laundering.



There are all kinds of ways the mob makes money. A real business is needed to launder money which I will refer you to Saul Goodman for explanation of placement, layering, and integration. But some mobsters are too cheap to launder money. Why pay 30-40% to launder the remaining of what you had to kick up 50% of in the first place?

Laundering is another reason you need some smart guys hanging around. Although if you are running the laundromat do not expect to be invited to the social club. If I were laundering I would stay as far from it as possible. Just lead a quiet life and hope the feds never notice you.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 28th, 2020 at 12:37:38 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I have heard that when you get these guys out of the social club they are very shy and reserved. They know they are uneducated and not very smart.



I read a book in the 80's by a
former FBI agent who was deep
undercover in the NY Mafia for
years. He said the absolute
worst part was dealing with cretins
every day and pretending you
were as stupid as they were. He
was even suicidal at times, it got
so bad. They were not just dumb,
they were incredibly dumb. Most,
if they could read, it was at a 3rd
grade level.

I was on the Nancy Sinatra forum
20 years ago for a few years. Had
lots of conversations with her.
She knew a lot of Mob people in
the 60's because Frank was in
tight with them. I mentioned the
FBI book once and she was offended.
She had a totally different experience.
But she only dealt with the top guys,
the smart ones. She had no idea what
the lower ranks were like. And frankly,
she's not the sharpest knife in the
drawer herself..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
jjjoooggg
jjjoooggg
Joined: Jul 13, 2012
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September 28th, 2020 at 1:42:05 PM permalink
Michael Franzese seems classy.

https://youtu.be/RjwnDF2dRgI

This one seems cruel

https://youtu.be/qdcaBLUsgGQ

We have had a lot of gang members work for us. Sometimes , they don't have any record. There has been a 35 year rumor my dad is a drug dealer. Untrue. The cops had my chicken cutter in and out of court for years. The judge exploded and said "why is the case taking so long." The chicken cutter told us that they want his drug source. Which isn't us. He finally went to prison for a few years and tried to come back to work for us. We denied hiring him because he was one of the gang members that stole food from us. We had numerous gang members steal food from us. The others were fired or quit. One M13 member /ex worker sued us for a fight he started. He didn't suffer any injury. During the discovery we gave them all the witnesses and ppl on duty during the fight. About 40 ppl are going to tell the other lawyer what he doesn't want to hear. We actually have a case against him for attacking our worker. Another gang member tried a fake lawsuit. We took to our insurance carrier. Havn't heard from him in half a year. Another gang member /ex worker came to our store and attacked our worker bc she thought she slept with her bf. Turned out she didn't . Now , worker on duty is suing us for failing to protect her. Company Health insurance denies her claim and liability carrier is all over this case. Ex worker is facing assault charges. And may lose custody of children.

Our ex maintenance man is a gang member. He was the dumbest one ever, maybe the drugs fried his brain. His twin got out of prison for drug dealing.

We had an ex drug dealer work for us 12 years ago. He got his act together and now doing trade work. I still keep in contact with him.
Last edited by: jjjoooggg on Sep 28, 2020
I belong to an elite group called the "Zombie Outbreak Response Team."
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
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September 28th, 2020 at 1:59:52 PM permalink
Americans, and other countries and cultures have a fascination with crime and criminals
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired

maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it
𝘱𝘢𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘵: 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳 𝘭𝘰𝘶𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵............. ᴍᴀʀᴋ ᴛᴡᴀɪɴ
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 28th, 2020 at 2:34:44 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Americans, and other countries and cultures have a fascination with crime and criminals
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired

maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it



America has "liked" outlaws for years. Before "The Godfather" it was westerns, which usually had a good guy/bad guy theme.

When it comes to the mafia IMHO the fascination is with the fact that the crime is organized. Like you have a structure at work they have one on the street. And they moved in on so many things.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 28th, 2020 at 2:39:53 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I read a book in the 80's by a
former FBI agent who was deep
undercover in the NY Mafia for
years. He said the absolute
worst part was dealing with cretins
every day and pretending you
were as stupid as they were. He
was even suicidal at times, it got
so bad. They were not just dumb,
they were incredibly dumb. Most,
if they could read, it was at a 3rd
grade level.



In "Boss of Bosses" they speculated that some of the top level guys would actually talk to the FBI just to have an intelligent conversation where you could follow a line of logic. Not that they gave them anything, but the FBI talks to these guys sometimes. I had a 1%er biker doing some work for me and he confirmed the FBI will alert them if a hit has been greenlighted for example. They also talk just to let these guys know they have someone to approach if they ever flip. A name to call who they have some sort of relationship with no matter how weird.

But they said the upper level guys when they deal with the lower level guys it is just "go here, do this. See this guy. Collect that." And of course they will screw it up half the time. When I had entry level people working for me in the legit world it was bad enough. I cannot imagine how it is in OC. No wonder those high level guys are always in a bad mood.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 175
  • Posts: 9752
September 28th, 2020 at 3:06:47 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Americans, and other countries and cultures have a fascination with crime and criminals
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired

maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it



Dillenger and Bonnie and Clyde were robbing banks at a time when banks were using every excuse possible to legally take away people's homes and farms. Many perceived them as modern-day Robin Hoods.
Woody Guthrie, who also wrote This Land is Your Land wrote the following ditty:
Was in Oklahoma City and on a Christmas Day, came a wagon full of groceries and a message that did say
Some say that I'm an outlaw, some say that I'm a thief, well here are some Christmas dinners for the families on relief.
Thru this world, we'll ramble, and thru this world, we'll roam
But you'll but never find an outlaw drive a family from their home.

Compared to the modern day crooks who sell poison to our kids and extort hard working citizens, maybe those bank robbers were heroes.

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