Remember When
January 24th, 2025 at 7:25:00 AM
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If I'm remembering right, the Vega was a fairly basic car with a small 4 cylinder engine.
I believe the basic end of both the Kia and Hyundai lines have similarly sized 4 cylinder engines, air conditioning, and fancy stereos for around 10x that price. (They probably have California emissions, too.)
Doubling the price of the stove might get you a phone based remote control app and Sabbath mode, although the luxury stove dealers really would prefer you spend at least 5 or 6 times the 1973 price. Landlords somehow can still buy today's fairly basic stoves for around the 1973 price.
I believe the basic end of both the Kia and Hyundai lines have similarly sized 4 cylinder engines, air conditioning, and fancy stereos for around 10x that price. (They probably have California emissions, too.)
Doubling the price of the stove might get you a phone based remote control app and Sabbath mode, although the luxury stove dealers really would prefer you spend at least 5 or 6 times the 1973 price. Landlords somehow can still buy today's fairly basic stoves for around the 1973 price.
May the cards fall in your favor.
January 24th, 2025 at 7:32:23 AM
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A base model Vega had a manual transmission, might not have had AC, power brakes or power steering, a mono AM radio, plastic seats, no airbags and no electronics. It might not have had a catalytic converter.
A friend had a two year old Vega that required a quart of oil every time he'd gas up. It didn't survive to be three. At least they didn't blow up on impact like the Pinto.
A friend had a two year old Vega that required a quart of oil every time he'd gas up. It didn't survive to be three. At least they didn't blow up on impact like the Pinto.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 24th, 2025 at 8:06:07 AM
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Quote: DieterIf I'm remembering right, the Vega was a fairly basic car with a small 4 cylinder engine.
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It was a rolling junk pile. A friend of mine bought a new one and returned it it was so bad. Metal dashboard, no padding anywhere on the inside so it sounded like you're in a tin can when you were riding in it. Absolutely no power you couldn't even pass somebody on the freeway. He took it back to the dealership and bought something equally as bad because there were no good cars in those days.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 24th, 2025 at 8:13:28 AM
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There is a possibility that the 1973 stove is still in use today. The chances the Vega is still running are infinitesimal.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 24th, 2025 at 8:47:48 AM
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Quote: billryanThere is a possibility that the 1973 stove is still in use today. The chances the Vega is still running are infinitesimal.
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My house, which I bought 15 years ago, was built in the early '70's and has the original stove, which is still operating.
Dog Hand
January 24th, 2025 at 9:41:26 AM
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My house was manufactured in 1973, and the stove appears original.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 24th, 2025 at 10:52:49 AM
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A gas stove will last forever if you take care of it. In 1985 I bought a 1910 restaurant stove from a restaurant they were tearing down and I used it for 15 years. All I had to do was replace the gas jets and it worked great. It had a soup well, a built-in grill, a broiler underneath the grill, an oven and 6 burners on top. I get rid of it because the oven wasn't big enough for modern day but the stove was 90 years old and worked just fine.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 24th, 2025 at 11:28:14 AM
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Quote: EvenBobA gas stove will last forever if you take care of it. In 1985 I bought a 1910 restaurant stove from a restaurant they were tearing down and I used it for 15 years. All I had to do was replace the gas jets and it worked great. It had a soup well, a built-in grill, a broiler underneath the grill, an oven and 6 burners on top. I get rid of it because the oven wasn't big enough for modern day but the stove was 90 years old and worked just fine.
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When my grandparents died in 1998 they had the stove they bought in 1946. Worked fine.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
January 24th, 2025 at 11:43:14 AM
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I bought a Sears washing machine and dryer set in 1973. (1973 not a typo)
The washing machine is still being used.
The washing machine is still being used.
January 24th, 2025 at 12:06:29 PM
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The manufacturing process takes a huge amount of energy, so the short-lifetime "energy-saving" appliances we have now, on net, do not save energy compared to the old ones... and do even worse for saving money
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
January 24th, 2025 at 12:29:35 PM
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I bought a new cheapo toaster oven today from Walmart for $19.99. It toasted two English muffins. Then broiled 4 Hebrew National hot dogs. So it suits my needs.
I giggled when the cashier kid asked me if I wanted some insurance to protect my purchase. I think the same for my $49.99 Keurig machine.
I giggled when the cashier kid asked me if I wanted some insurance to protect my purchase. I think the same for my $49.99 Keurig machine.
January 24th, 2025 at 12:50:20 PM
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That's impressive. My experience is the other way around. I have purchased 3 washing machines in my lifetime and a total of zero dryers (not counting the one that came with the house)!Quote: FatGeezusI bought a Sears washing machine and dryer set in 1973. (1973 not a typo)
The washing machine is still being used.
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"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
January 24th, 2025 at 1:02:39 PM
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Quote: SOOPOOI bought a new cheapo toaster oven today from Walmart for $19.99. It toasted two English muffins. Then broiled 4 Hebrew National hot dogs. So it suits my needs.
I giggled when the cashier kid asked me if I wanted some insurance to protect my purchase. I think the same for my $49.99 Keurig machine.
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Amazon offers unlimited repairs or replacements on almost everything you purchase for $16.99 a month. It's not worth it for me, but I might consider it if I had a large family.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 31st, 2025 at 12:29:13 PM
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The comic book industry is reeling, from the bankruptcy of one of the leading distributors, and now it is facing 25% tariffs as most products are printed in Canada.
I'm not sure how tariffs work so maybe someone can explain it.
If a book today cost $4.99 retail, and $2.50 wholesale and is hit with a 25% tariff, who pays it? If the distributor pays 25%, his final cost goes up eighty or so cents and has to be passed along to his customers, no?
Or do tariffs work differently?
I'm not sure how tariffs work so maybe someone can explain it.
If a book today cost $4.99 retail, and $2.50 wholesale and is hit with a 25% tariff, who pays it? If the distributor pays 25%, his final cost goes up eighty or so cents and has to be passed along to his customers, no?
Or do tariffs work differently?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 31st, 2025 at 12:48:06 PM
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Quote: billryanThe comic book industry is reeling, from the bankruptcy of one of the leading distributors, and now it is facing 25% tariffs as most products are printed in Canada.
I'm not sure how tariffs work so maybe someone can explain it.
If a book today cost $4.99 retail, and $2.50 wholesale and is hit with a 25% tariff, who pays it? If the distributor pays 25%, his final cost goes up eighty or so cents and has to be passed along to his customers, no?
Or do tariffs work differently?
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Not totally sure but my thought is it depends on how they set up the tariff. They could set it at % of MSRP or wholesale value. But they have to prevent cheating so if it was simply MSRP they could set MSRP at $0.01 then just mark it up.
Things get creative. Subaru BRAT was imported without a bed so it was "truck parts" to avoid the chicken tax. Time will tell.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
January 31st, 2025 at 1:29:01 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanThe comic book industry is reeling, from the bankruptcy of one of the leading distributors, and now it is facing 25% tariffs as most products are printed in Canada.
I'm not sure how tariffs work so maybe someone can explain it.
If a book today cost $4.99 retail, and $2.50 wholesale and is hit with a 25% tariff, who pays it? If the distributor pays 25%, his final cost goes up eighty or so cents and has to be passed along to his customers, no?
Or do tariffs work differently?
link to original post
Not totally sure but my thought is it depends on how they set up the tariff. They could set it at % of MSRP or wholesale value. But they have to prevent cheating so if it was simply MSRP they could set MSRP at $0.01 then just mark it up.
Things get creative. Subaru BRAT was imported without a bed so it was "truck parts" to avoid the chicken tax. Time will tell.
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They could ship the pages [un]assembled and then assemble them in the US…
No matter how a tariff is structured, it’s always the consumer who pays. I get why BR is asking, though. I assume he’s trying to gauge how much he’ll be gouged!
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
January 31st, 2025 at 3:22:04 PM
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Quote: camapl
No matter how a tariff is structured, it’s always the consumer who pays. I get why BR is asking, though. I assume he’s trying to gauge how much he’ll be gouged!
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That's frequently asserted, but in reality it is the party sending it into the country that alone pays the tariffs.
Proof of this is obvious: the existence of retaliatory tariffs. If you tariff us, we'll tariff you. They're not saying "If you hurt your consumers we'll hurt ours too," they're saying "If you hurt our producers we'll hurt yours too." If it was just our consumers paying the tariffs the Chinese would just shrug. Instead, they send envoy and utter threats. Because they know full well who will be paying them.
I believe in free markets and competition, but competing with Chinese manufacturing now is like competing with the American cotton industry in 1840. It requires the opposite of freedom, and doing things to your own people that only backwards nations are willing to do.
January 31st, 2025 at 3:46:39 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: camapl
No matter how a tariff is structured, it’s always the consumer who pays. I get why BR is asking, though. I assume he’s trying to gauge how much he’ll be gouged!
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That's frequently asserted, but in reality it is the party sending it into the country that alone pays the tariffs.
Proof of this is obvious: the existence of retaliatory tariffs. If you tariff us, we'll tariff you. They're not saying "If you hurt your consumers we'll hurt ours too," they're saying "If you hurt our producers we'll hurt yours too." If it was just our consumers paying the tariffs the Chinese would just shrug. Instead, they send envoy and utter threats. Because they know full well who will be paying them.
I believe in free markets and competition, but competing with Chinese manufacturing now is like competing with the American cotton industry in 1840. It requires the opposite of freedom, and doing things to your own people that only backwards nations are willing to do.
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This response is as facile as the point it responded to.
A tariff shifts the supply curve as it’s an added cost, so the quantity sold and price it is sold at will change with price increasing and quantity decreasing, how much depends on the elasticity of demand and supply.
How this “harms” US consumers and Chinese producers depends on those elasticity inputs. But it’s clear that some people in the US will still buy the same quantity at a higher price (harm) and some consumers in the US will not buy at all and instead spend money on something inferior from the perspective of that consumer’s utility function (also harm).
In return the US gets some amount of money, but less money than the total “harm” on the producers and consumers in the aggregate, hence the concept of dead weight loss.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 31st, 2025 at 3:54:24 PM
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That is just completely wrong. Importers (i.e., businesses in the receiving country) pay the tariffs, and those costs are largely passed along to consumers. (Council on Foreign Relations, and literally every single other reliable source)Quote: AutomaticMonkeyThat's frequently asserted, but in reality it is the party sending it into the country that alone pays the tariffs link to original post
I run Easy Vegas ( https://easy.vegas )
January 31st, 2025 at 4:00:32 PM
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Quote: MichaelBluejayThat is just completely wrong. Importers (i.e., businesses in the receiving country) pay the tariffs, and those costs are largely passed along to consumers. (Council on Foreign Relations, and literally every single other reliable source)Quote: AutomaticMonkeyThat's frequently asserted, but in reality it is the party sending it into the country that alone pays the tariffs link to original post
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So why does Red China huff and puff and threaten to invade Taiwan whenever we tariff? Philanthropy towards American consumers?
January 31st, 2025 at 4:23:18 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: MichaelBluejayThat is just completely wrong. Importers (i.e., businesses in the receiving country) pay the tariffs, and those costs are largely passed along to consumers. (Council on Foreign Relations, and literally every single other reliable source)Quote: AutomaticMonkeyThat's frequently asserted, but in reality it is the party sending it into the country that alone pays the tariffs link to original post
link to original post
So why does Red China huff and puff and threaten to invade Taiwan whenever we tariff? Philanthropy towards American consumers?
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No. See my post. Straw men are boring.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 31st, 2025 at 4:38:46 PM
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(groan)Quote: AutomaticMonkeySo why does Red China huff and puff and threaten to invade Taiwan whenever we tariff? Philanthropy towards American consumers? link to original post
It ought to be extremely obvious, but since somehow it's not:
(1) Tariffs make goods in the receiving country more expensive.
(2) When goods are more expensive, people buy less of them.
(3) Because people in the receiving country buy less of the foreign products, that hurts:
.......(a) The producers in the foreign countries.
.......(b) The workers in those foreign countries, who might lose their jobs or at least have to take a pay cut.
.......(c) Those workers who lose their jobs or take a pay cut have to cut their own spending on other goods and services within that country, causing a ripple effect throughout the foreign country's economy. Remember, there's simply less outside money flowing in to that foreign country.
It's that simple, and that obvious.
It's not a good idea to state things as fact when you have no clue what you're talking about.
I run Easy Vegas ( https://easy.vegas )
January 31st, 2025 at 4:56:34 PM
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Quote: unJon
No. See my post. Straw men are boring.
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So are globalists. They think they are worldly and well-rounded, but their arguments fall flat.
If your idea of economic good is getting things as cheaply as possible, then: the Thirteenth Amendment, bans on child labor, the right for labor to organize, OSHA, workman's comp all hurt the economy too. And similar claims were made as each one of these things were being debated. "We can't afford it!" But funny thing was, it was never the people who have trouble affording food and shelter saying "we can't afford it." It was always the rich, who were in a position to get richer. Must be just a coincidence.
Outsourcing the things that we as a society decided were abominations does not help us. The abolition of slavery did not make cotton goods unaffordable; the planters who produced cotton just had to get by with 2 mansions instead of 3, that's all. Likewise importing everything from China served only to eliminate manufacturing alternatives elsewhere. Same way that opening the borders to the Third World changed the nature of the working class and working class employment in the US, making it more like Third World employment and a Third World lifestyle for our workers than what previous generations had built for America.
Now once we shut that all down, today's Robber Barons will bleat about how unfaaaiiiirr it is that they have to pay an American wage to an American worker to do anything in America. Sorry, that's how it has to be. For international trade is not possible when one nation isn't producing anything to trade. All we will have to give in exchange for iPhones will be our people, land, and sovereignty.
January 31st, 2025 at 5:00:12 PM
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That was a complete non sequitur but at least it wasn’t boring.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 31st, 2025 at 5:06:12 PM
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Quote: MichaelBluejay(groan)Quote: AutomaticMonkeySo why does Red China huff and puff and threaten to invade Taiwan whenever we tariff? Philanthropy towards American consumers? link to original post
It ought to be extremely obvious, but since somehow it's not:
(1) Tariffs make goods in the receiving country more expensive.
(2) When goods are more expensive, people buy less of them.
(3) Because people in the receiving country buy less of the foreign products, that hurts:
.......(a) The producers in the foreign countries.
.......(b) The workers in those foreign countries, who might lose their jobs or at least have to take a pay cut.
.......(c) Those workers who lose their jobs or take a pay cut have to cut their own spending on other goods and services within that country, causing a ripple effect throughout the foreign country's economy. Remember, there's simply less outside money flowing in to that foreign country.
It's that simple, and that obvious.
It's not a good idea to state things as fact when you have no clue what you're talking about.
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Well that is correct. Tariffs do hurt the workers and the economy of the exporting country. They have less, we have more.
Does it make me a bad person if I do not in the slightest bit care about what happens to China or anyone in China?
January 31st, 2025 at 5:18:41 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: MichaelBluejay(groan)Quote: AutomaticMonkeySo why does Red China huff and puff and threaten to invade Taiwan whenever we tariff? Philanthropy towards American consumers? link to original post
It ought to be extremely obvious, but since somehow it's not:
(1) Tariffs make goods in the receiving country more expensive.
(2) When goods are more expensive, people buy less of them.
(3) Because people in the receiving country buy less of the foreign products, that hurts:
.......(a) The producers in the foreign countries.
.......(b) The workers in those foreign countries, who might lose their jobs or at least have to take a pay cut.
.......(c) Those workers who lose their jobs or take a pay cut have to cut their own spending on other goods and services within that country, causing a ripple effect throughout the foreign country's economy. Remember, there's simply less outside money flowing in to that foreign country.
It's that simple, and that obvious.
It's not a good idea to state things as fact when you have no clue what you're talking about.
link to original post
Well that is correct. Tariffs do hurt the workers and the economy of the exporting country. They have less, we have more.
Does it make me a bad person if I do not in the slightest bit care about what happens to China or anyone in China?
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No it just makes you intentionally or not someone that ignores inconvenient truths that the harm isn’t one sided.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 31st, 2025 at 5:32:57 PM
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Or what about this, AutomaticMonkey, if Trump declared a federal sales tax on goods imported from China, would you feel differently than about a tariff on Chinese imports?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
January 31st, 2025 at 5:33:46 PM
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If the comic book goes up 25%, I think it is obvious who is paying the tariff.
It's the same if the comic is still $4.99 in six months despite the book being made in Canada.
The comic industry was mobbed up for years, and the last vestige was there was only one printing plant for the industry, that was controlled by the mob. The plant refused to upgrade its facilities, so comics were printed on 1930s technology well into the 1990s.
Time Warner and a few companies invested nearly a billion dollars to build a state-of-the-art plant in Montreal, partially because of the weaker Canadian dollar. New comic sales are down almost 90% from their peak in the early 1990s. They plateaued a few years back, and then Covid hit. In some states, comic shops were declared vital businesses and allowed to stay open; in others, they were closed.
Diamond was forced to close its main warehouse, and DC used that as a pretext to void its contract. Most estimates are the industry has lost about a third of its shops since 2020. A 25% price increase will chase away many customers and make it harder to attract new readers, especially if many other items go up.
To complicate things, many second-tier books are printed in the 10 to 12,000 range, barely above the 10,000 break-even point. With the decline in print media, the printing plant is operating at a significantly reduced capacity and at a loss.
It's the same if the comic is still $4.99 in six months despite the book being made in Canada.
The comic industry was mobbed up for years, and the last vestige was there was only one printing plant for the industry, that was controlled by the mob. The plant refused to upgrade its facilities, so comics were printed on 1930s technology well into the 1990s.
Time Warner and a few companies invested nearly a billion dollars to build a state-of-the-art plant in Montreal, partially because of the weaker Canadian dollar. New comic sales are down almost 90% from their peak in the early 1990s. They plateaued a few years back, and then Covid hit. In some states, comic shops were declared vital businesses and allowed to stay open; in others, they were closed.
Diamond was forced to close its main warehouse, and DC used that as a pretext to void its contract. Most estimates are the industry has lost about a third of its shops since 2020. A 25% price increase will chase away many customers and make it harder to attract new readers, especially if many other items go up.
To complicate things, many second-tier books are printed in the 10 to 12,000 range, barely above the 10,000 break-even point. With the decline in print media, the printing plant is operating at a significantly reduced capacity and at a loss.
Last edited by: billryan on Jan 31, 2025
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
January 31st, 2025 at 5:56:26 PM
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Quote: AutomaticMonkey]Does it make me a bad person if I do not in the slightest bit care about what happens to China or anyone in China? link to original post
(1) Yes.
(2) Even if the answer were no, I would judge your character by your stating something ridiculous ("foreign country pays the tariff") as though it were fact.
(3) Even if the answer were no, I would judge your character by your not owning up to your error, and instead deflecting to an different question. ("Does it make me a bad person...?")
(4) Since you apparently still need the obvious explained to you: Tariffs don't just hurt the exporting country, they hurt consumers in the IMPORTING country too, since they're forced to pay more for goods. They can't always simply switch to cheaper domestic products, because there might not BE any cheaper domestic products. How is that not as obvious as a smack to the face with a wet fish?
(5) Less obviously, tariffs can cripple manufacturing in the importing country. Let's say a foreign country starts exporting widgets that are cheaper and higher quality than the ones that are domestically produced. The domestic producers can't easily compete, at least not right away, so they complain to the government: "We can't compete with these foreign goods, put a tariff on them to make them more expensive than our stuff so people will buy our stuff instead." Three ways that could play out:
.....(a) The government institutes a permanent tariff, so the domestic producers continue to be lazy and never learn to make products that are better and cheaper, and eventually go extinct as a result.
.....(b) The government doesn't institute any tariff, so the domestic producers can't compete, so they go out of business.
.....(c) The government institutes a *short-term* tariff, telling domestic producers, "Okay, we'll protect you by temporarily making foreign products more expensive, so you have time to innovate to be able to compete better, but in (one)(two)(three) years the tariffs will expire so you'd better be ready to compete then."
5a is an example of tariffs hurting domestic production.
I run Easy Vegas ( https://easy.vegas )
January 31st, 2025 at 7:08:23 PM
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Quote: unJonOr what about this, AutomaticMonkey, if Trump declared a federal sales tax on goods imported from China, would you feel differently than about a tariff on Chinese imports?
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Of course, firstly for Constitutional reasons. The President cannot levy a tax, that requires legislation.
But even if the legislature did, a sales tax is not exactly the same as a tariff. The tariff applies to all goods, not just consumer level sales like a sales tax does. So suppose I am building something here and I buy screws from Red China. The sales tax would not apply to my finished product. But the tariff would apply to the imported screws.
The goal is to increase and protect employment for our industrial workers. This keeps the necessary elements of production within our shores. It also keeps our workers from being unemployed and public charges. And it also satisfies our working population, because just like in 1941 the day will come where we need to tell them and their sons to leave the workboots home and put on some marching boots, and we want to make sure they believe what we have here is worth fighting for. Because unlike in much of Europe, we did not end up in a situation where that class of people from which we recruit the bulk of our military is saying "Why fight? Maybe this Adolf guy has it right. How is my country as it is now any better?"
Keeping our people happy and productive is important for the security of our nation. I use that word as opposed to "country" or "state" with intention.
January 31st, 2025 at 8:00:43 PM
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Roger dodger. AutomaticMonkey I’m not sure what else to say.
A tariff and a targeted sales tax are equivalent in impact regarding “harm.” Come back when you can see that or have legitimate questions about that. Until then your posts on this topic are Sus.
ETA: And just to say it, I am not anti tariff or anti sales tax. It depends, for me, on the situation and the math. And the thing you are trying to optimize.
A tariff and a targeted sales tax are equivalent in impact regarding “harm.” Come back when you can see that or have legitimate questions about that. Until then your posts on this topic are Sus.
ETA: And just to say it, I am not anti tariff or anti sales tax. It depends, for me, on the situation and the math. And the thing you are trying to optimize.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
February 1st, 2025 at 3:55:18 AM
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Of course the consumer pays the tariff. Same as they pay for the corporate tax increase and new regulations. But there are other considerations.
Tariffs can be used to punish, as we saw when Columbia caved this week. Usually not that fast but they can and do work.
Tariffs can be used for revenue as they were in the 1800s and before.
Tariffs balance things out. When one side has a mercantilist system but the other free trade the side going free trade is going to see its industry die off. Which is where we are now. Current tariff threats are about reversing this.
Tariffs can be used to punish, as we saw when Columbia caved this week. Usually not that fast but they can and do work.
Tariffs can be used for revenue as they were in the 1800s and before.
Tariffs balance things out. When one side has a mercantilist system but the other free trade the side going free trade is going to see its industry die off. Which is where we are now. Current tariff threats are about reversing this.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 1st, 2025 at 5:16:15 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanOf course the consumer pays the tariff. Same as they pay for the corporate tax increase and new regulations. But there are other considerations.
Tariffs can be used to punish, as we saw when Columbia caved this week. Usually not that fast but they can and do work.
Tariffs can be used for revenue as they were in the 1800s and before.
Tariffs balance things out. When one side has a mercantilist system but the other free trade the side going free trade is going to see its industry die off. Which is where we are now. Current tariff threats are about reversing this.
link to original post
Well except the stated purpose of the tariffs isn’t to balance things out economically. At least that’s not what they are reporting the White House as saying. More leverage to get concessions on immigration and drug trade.
Anyway, mindful to not make this political.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
February 1st, 2025 at 5:25:46 AM
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The Latin American press is reporting on the Colombia situation very differently. The first planes that landed in Colombia had the passengers shackled and treated like prisoners. The press is reporting the new flights are not like that.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 1st, 2025 at 9:08:04 AM
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Quote: unJonQuote: AZDuffmanOf course the consumer pays the tariff. Same as they pay for the corporate tax increase and new regulations. But there are other considerations.
Tariffs can be used to punish, as we saw when Columbia caved this week. Usually not that fast but they can and do work.
Tariffs can be used for revenue as they were in the 1800s and before.
Tariffs balance things out. When one side has a mercantilist system but the other free trade the side going free trade is going to see its industry die off. Which is where we are now. Current tariff threats are about reversing this.
link to original post
Well except the stated purpose of the tariffs isn’t to balance things out economically. At least that’s not what they are reporting the White House as saying. More leverage to get concessions on immigration and drug trade.
Anyway, mindful to not make this political.
link to original post
After WWII the USA made it clear. Access to the American market if you follow our guidelines. Ignore them and you get locked out. Most took the deal. Now the ante is getting upped. Mr and Mrs America are tired of the agreement being gamed since the early 70s. They are also tired of cheapo foreign products that break too soon.
May you live in interesting times.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 1st, 2025 at 11:01:12 AM
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I see little evidence that people are tired of cheap foreign goods. Walmart and Temu are thriving. When I start to see actual protests at Walmarts, I'll be convinced.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 1st, 2025 at 11:26:44 AM
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Quote: billryanI see little evidence that people are tired of cheap foreign goods. Walmart and Temu are thriving. When I start to see actual protests at Walmarts, I'll be convinced.
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What, you think they sell different stuff at Target then they do at Walmart? Or at Amazon? It's all the same crap made by the same companies. I had to order three electric blankets at Amazon because the first two didn't work right. Ditto with a vacuum I bought for my wife, first one battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back and get another one. Ditto with a smartwatch I got for $75 at Amazon, battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back got another one. Walmart and target sell exactly the same stuff I wouldn't have been any better off there.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 1st, 2025 at 1:31:13 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: billryanI see little evidence that people are tired of cheap foreign goods. Walmart and Temu are thriving. When I start to see actual protests at Walmarts, I'll be convinced.
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What, you think they sell different stuff at Target then they do at Walmart? Or at Amazon? It's all the same crap made by the same companies. I had to order three electric blankets at Amazon because the first two didn't work right. Ditto with a vacuum I bought for my wife, first one battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back and get another one. Ditto with a smartwatch I got for $75 at Amazon, battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back got another one. Walmart and target sell exactly the same stuff I wouldn't have been any better off there.
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That's true. Every item now, it appears to be the same thing with a different label stuck on it no matter where you get it. All made in the same factory in China. All the clothes, bad polyester from China.
While you talk about the quality of your wares, you have your cheaper competitor where he cannot touch you. The breach between you is longer than his arm. When you begin to talk about prices, you are absolutely at his mercy. There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man’s lawful prey. This is the doctrine of commercial foreordination, against which it is useless to contend. -J.A. Richards
Now here's the question the open borders / open markets people really have to dodge: what do we do if we have to fight a war against the people supplying all our stuff? Our factories are shut down and it will take years to bring them back up. That's a lot of privation we have to endure during wartime. Now they pop off with some breezy answer: "Then just don't fight a war! Get it? Heh heh heh heh..." or "They would never have a war against their best customer!" which history has shown is a bucket of crap. What they're really saying is "Then we surrender."
It is national self-sufficiency that is the key to peace. The Chauci Saxons are the example to follow. They didn't fight for land, they took undesirable land no one wanted and sent their young men to work improving it. They were known for and named for the saex, a sturdy knife that could be used as a tool for many jobs, but also could be repurposed as an effective weapon. So if you tried to take what they had built and drive them from their land, all the young men were armed, and all alive, because they hadn't taken losses in wars of aggression. Woe to the invader! America historically has done the same- a large domestic manufacturing base that could be quickly repurposed to arms manufacture. We won WWII mostly because our industry was able to pour out arms and munitions as readily as they could pour out cars and radios and sewing machines, and we could afford that because they were primarily engaging in domestic manufacturing which enriches us rather than burdens us in peacetime. Americans did not suffer during the war to the extent our allies did, which allowed us to make the national commitment to the war effort that we did. That happened because we were able to produce almost everything we needed here.
February 1st, 2025 at 1:36:28 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: billryanI see little evidence that people are tired of cheap foreign goods. Walmart and Temu are thriving. When I start to see actual protests at Walmarts, I'll be convinced.
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What, you think they sell different stuff at Target then they do at Walmart? Or at Amazon? It's all the same crap made by the same companies. I had to order three electric blankets at Amazon because the first two didn't work right. Ditto with a vacuum I bought for my wife, first one battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back and get another one. Ditto with a smartwatch I got for $75 at Amazon, battery didn't hold a charge had to send it back got another one. Walmart and target sell exactly the same stuff I wouldn't have been any better off there.
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Exactly my point, but add in appliances that break in just a few years. We buy it because that is all there is, but we are sick of it. Some of us are trying to live more simple, not accumulating this junk.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 2nd, 2025 at 7:52:29 AM
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Lunar, the second largest distributor of American comic books, sent out a warning to its 850plus retailers. They expect a 25% tariff next week, which they are passing on to their customers. They also warn that if Canada imposes an equal tariff, they will pass that along, so their Canadian customers face a 50% tariff as the fee is applied as the books cross the border from Ronalds to their warehouse and then a second tariff as the books go from the US to Canada. They expressed sympathy for their buyers but said they could not extend credit to anyone unable to pay their bills in full despite the sudden, unexpected rise in billing.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 2nd, 2025 at 8:14:13 AM
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An impromptu poll on my comic discord showed 80% of buyers would cut down on purchases rather than folk over an extra 25%.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 2nd, 2025 at 9:47:32 AM
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Quote: billryanAn impromptu poll on my comic discord showed 80% of buyers would cut down on purchases rather than folk over an extra 25%.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
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Comic books do not seem to have a price point where this is going to cause pain. Discretionary purchases they are but I’d file it under sand as SBUX bumps the price of your daily macchiato. I don’t know that hey ever had to bump 50% but I’m sure they bumped when minimum wage went up in CA for example.
In any case I expect the whole thing to blow over in a month or two.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 2nd, 2025 at 10:19:53 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanAn impromptu poll on my comic discord showed 80% of buyers would cut down on purchases rather than folk over an extra 25%.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
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Comic books do not seem to have a price point where this is going to cause pain. Discretionary purchases they are but I’d file it under sand as SBUX bumps the price of your daily macchiato. I don’t know that hey ever had to bump 50% but I’m sure they bumped when minimum wage went up in CA for example.
In any case I expect the whole thing to blow over in a month or two.
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I stopped reading comic books in 1960 when I was 11 years old because I discovered The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew. Comic books were 10 cents a piece. Adults still read comic books today? Why. If you need pictures when you read, we have a name for that.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 2nd, 2025 at 11:10:30 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanAn impromptu poll on my comic discord showed 80% of buyers would cut down on purchases rather than folk over an extra 25%.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
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Comic books do not seem to have a price point where this is going to cause pain. Discretionary purchases they are but I’d file it under sand as SBUX bumps the price of your daily macchiato. I don’t know that hey ever had to bump 50% but I’m sure they bumped when minimum wage went up in CA for example.
In any case I expect the whole thing to blow over in a month or two.
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A 25% increase will almost certainly affect new comic sales and it won't take much to affect the many stores just struggling to succeed.
When a shop needs to come up with $2500 to prepay for next weeks books instead of $2,000, shops will fail.
In the 1980s, Molson and other Canadian Beers were becoming very popular. The US put tariffs on them, and they were no longer inexpensive nor popular.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 2nd, 2025 at 11:49:25 AM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanAn impromptu poll on my comic discord showed 80% of buyers would cut down on purchases rather than folk over an extra 25%.
That is their gut reaction, but we'll see how they feel in a few months.
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Comic books do not seem to have a price point where this is going to cause pain. Discretionary purchases they are but I’d file it under sand as SBUX bumps the price of your daily macchiato. I don’t know that hey ever had to bump 50% but I’m sure they bumped when minimum wage went up in CA for example.
In any case I expect the whole thing to blow over in a month or two.
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I stopped reading comic books in 1960 when I was 11 years old because I discovered The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew. Comic books were 10 cents a piece. Adults still read comic books today? Why. If you need pictures when you read, we have a name for that.
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They are both an art form and give men something to remember from their childhood. Not my thing but I see why some people like them.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 2nd, 2025 at 3:29:46 PM
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While I agree the above discussion about tariffs, comic books, and 'whether Michael Bluejay considers automatic monkey to be a bad person' has the redeeming quality of being an interesting discussion; it is:
- off-topic to this "Remember When" thread
- becoming increasingly a political discussion
- has veered off at least once into being at least mildly insulting
I'm asking everyone to cool down on the rhetoric and avoid discussing tariff policies unless there is a tie into the gambling industry.
- off-topic to this "Remember When" thread
- becoming increasingly a political discussion
- has veered off at least once into being at least mildly insulting
I'm asking everyone to cool down on the rhetoric and avoid discussing tariff policies unless there is a tie into the gambling industry.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
February 2nd, 2025 at 3:29:48 PM
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While I agree the above discussion about tariffs, comic books, and 'whether Michael Bluejay considers automatic monkey to be a bad person' has the redeeming quality of being an interesting discussion; it is:
- off-topic to this "Remember When" thread
- becoming increasingly a political discussion
- has veered off at least once into being at least mildly insulting
I'm asking everyone to cool down on the rhetoric and avoid discussing tariff policies unless there is a tie into the gambling industry.
- off-topic to this "Remember When" thread
- becoming increasingly a political discussion
- has veered off at least once into being at least mildly insulting
I'm asking everyone to cool down on the rhetoric and avoid discussing tariff policies unless there is a tie into the gambling industry.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
