Remember When
I can't think of any finale that I'd consider great.
Quote: billryanThe worst ending for a show I cared about would have to be Quantum Leap, as the project was shut down and Sam was lost forever.
I can't think of any finale that I'd consider great.
link to original post
I suggest someone write a series with many mysteries left unsolved. Of course, each show has to have a resolution or point, or leave you hanging to find out what happens in the next episode. But at least the Finale can wrap up all those other things.
Quote: EvenBobJay Leno finally did a show about my very first car, 57 Volkswagen bug. I love that car, we always love our very first car because it meant freedom.
I did not love my first car.
It lasted less than two months. My next one was a 68 Skylark that got me through one winter before blowing the timing chain.
Sadly, at this same time, my parents bought my sister a new Oldsmobile Starfire and it burned nearly as much oil as my Nova. The car was garbage and fell apart within three years. It got junked before my parents paid off the loan.
Quote: EvenBobOne of the best cars I ever had I got at an auto auction. It was a 2000 Saturn and the auction was in 2002. 35,000 miles on it but it had a stick shift and no power windows. The starting bid was $2,000 and I was the only one who bid because nobody wanted a stick shift car with no power windows. I drove that thing for 12 years and put almost nothing into it. I always had more than one vehicle so it wasn't my main car but I still drove it all the time.
link to original post
Saturn had that old school GM reputation of “it runs bad longer than most cars run.”
So here's a couple videos on somebody who bought a 1975 Pacer to check it out. He did some speed tests, and it was absurdly slow on acceleration. My new car can do 0-60 mph in about 7 seconds compared to this one at 16 seconds. Those merge lanes on the toll road are still too short where I live. The speed limit was 55 mph back in the day, so going 85 mph was not on my radar. There's a lot of glass in this car, and no air bags that I can tell.
I BOUGHT The CLEANEST AMC Pacer In The Country - JRGO
DRIVING My New AMC Pacer In 2024 Is TERRIFYING - JRGO
Even Jay Leno tried out a 1978 Pacer Wagon. I haven't seen this video yet, I will soon.
Quote: ChumpChangeI bought a 1975 AMC Pacer for $800 with around 93K miles on it in the mid-'80's. I liked it at the time. I drove a stick shift in driver's ed so I was keen to try a stick shift and this model had it. My mother could not drive a stick shift, so if she had to move the car to the driveway off the street, she couldn't do it. My teen neighbor crashed into it causing severe door damage and it basically totaled the car in damages but I kept the $600 check and didn't fix the door. I kept driving and it passed inspection a couple more times. I got rid of it with over 100K miles and got my parent's 1975 Buick LeSabre which had over 110K miles on it, and I drove that for a couple years until it blew out in a puff of white smoke coming out of everywhere at 125K miles at 15 years old.
So here's a couple videos on somebody who bought a 1975 Pacer to check it out. He did some speed tests, and it was absurdly slow on acceleration. My new car can do 0-60 mph in about 7 seconds compared to this one at 16 seconds. Those merge lanes on the toll road are still too short where I live. The speed limit was 55 mph back in the day, so going 85 mph was not on my radar. There's a lot of glass in this car, and no air bags that I can tell.
I BOUGHT The CLEANEST AMC Pacer In The Country - JRGO
DRIVING My New AMC Pacer In 2024 Is TERRIFYING - JRGO
Even Jay Leno tried out a 1978 Pacer Wagon. I haven't seen this video yet, I will soon.
link to original post
I love the look of the Pacer and wish I could own one and maintain it. Actually, I would love to get the body of a Pacer and put it on a new platform of a similar size new car where I wouldn't have to deal with mechanical issues.
Quote: DRich
I love the look of the Pacer and wish I could own one and maintain it. Actually, I would love to get the body of a Pacer and put it on a new platform of a similar size new car where I wouldn't have to deal with mechanical issues.
link to original post
Shazam!
Quote: DRichQuote: ChumpChangeI bought a 1975 AMC Pacer for $800 with around 93K miles on it in the mid-'80's. I liked it at the time. I drove a stick shift in driver's ed so I was keen to try a stick shift and this model had it. My mother could not drive a stick shift, so if she had to move the car to the driveway off the street, she couldn't do it. My teen neighbor crashed into it causing severe door damage and it basically totaled the car in damages but I kept the $600 check and didn't fix the door. I kept driving and it passed inspection a couple more times. I got rid of it with over 100K miles and got my parent's 1975 Buick LeSabre which had over 110K miles on it, and I drove that for a couple years until it blew out in a puff of white smoke coming out of everywhere at 125K miles at 15 years old.
So here's a couple videos on somebody who bought a 1975 Pacer to check it out. He did some speed tests, and it was absurdly slow on acceleration. My new car can do 0-60 mph in about 7 seconds compared to this one at 16 seconds. Those merge lanes on the toll road are still too short where I live. The speed limit was 55 mph back in the day, so going 85 mph was not on my radar. There's a lot of glass in this car, and no air bags that I can tell.
I BOUGHT The CLEANEST AMC Pacer In The Country - JRGO
DRIVING My New AMC Pacer In 2024 Is TERRIFYING - JRGO
Even Jay Leno tried out a 1978 Pacer Wagon. I haven't seen this video yet, I will soon.
link to original post
I love the look of the Pacer and wish I could own one and maintain it. Actually, I would love to get the body of a Pacer and put it on a new platform of a similar size new car where I wouldn't have to deal with mechanical issues.
link to original post
If you left a Pacer exposed to the sun in a parking lot, the interior temperatures would turn the plastic seats into deathtraps. In the 1970s, air conditioning was an expensive option that many base model buyers skipped. Modern tinting could help., but the design was a bit ahead of its time. It had panorama views when it wasn't a thing.
I keep a thermometer in my current car and it can hit 110 - 120 degrees on the passenger seat with no shade on 85 degree days. The back windows are heavily tinted so that may block some sun and provide some privacy in mall parking lots.
Of course daily highs above 92 degrees are much more common now and record highs of 100 degrees are more the normal in summer with global warming in the northeast US / NYS area.
I'm all about the thermostat in my car with the digital readout and cranking it to hi or low if need be. Turning the heated steering wheel button on when it's too hot in the car does not exactly cool down the hot steering wheel, so I still have to wait for the steering wheel to cool down first before I drive anywhere.
Quote: billryan
If you left a Pacer exposed to the sun in a parking lot, the interior temperatures would turn the plastic seats into deathtraps. In the 1970s, air conditioning was an expensive option that many base model buyers skipped. Modern tinting could help., but the design was a bit ahead of its time. It had panorama views when it wasn't a thing.
Yes, it would have been miserable having a Pacer in Las Vegas during the summer.
Quote: billryanMy first car was a broken-down 1964 or 1965 Chevy Nova wagon. My Dad picked it out for me specially. It had a blown gasket and a radiator leak. It needed constant oil and radiator fluids. My Dad told me if I could maintain the car for six months, it would show him I could care for cars, and he'd buy me something better. It smoked like crazy and took two quarts of oil per gas fillup.
It lasted less than two months. My next one was a 68 Skylark that got me through one winter before blowing the timing chain.
Sadly, at this same time, my parents bought my sister a new Oldsmobile Starfire and it burned nearly as much oil as my Nova. The car was garbage and fell apart within three years. It got junked before my parents paid off the loan.
link to original post
I had almost the same cars you did.
My first car was a Pontiac Ventura which was a clone of the Nova, my second car was a skylark and my third car was an olds starfire.
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
Older televisions went up to Channel 83, but those frequencies are now closed to the general public.
Quote: AZDuffmanRemember when your TV had 2 dials and when the top dial was turned to "U" it lit up the bottom dial which was the UHF fro channels 14-83?
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
link to original post
Wisconsin had (has?) a channel 57. It can be hard to tell nowadays, since the ATSC / DTV kind of masks the raw channel numbers.
Back in the closing days of NTSC, I managed to get a few UHF modulators for a song, which would put a standard video device signal out on the UHF TV channel. I had them mixed into the house antenna system, so I could watch the main living room's entertainment devices on one of the other TV's. I absolutely had at least one set to Channel 62.
It was very convenient to put on an old favorite movie, and then have it synchronized on every TV in the house while wandering around doing chores.
Quote: DieterQuote: AZDuffmanRemember when your TV had 2 dials and when the top dial was turned to "U" it lit up the bottom dial which was the UHF fro channels 14-83?
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
link to original post
Wisconsin had (has?) a channel 57. It can be hard to tell nowadays, since the ATSC / DTV kind of masks the raw channel numbers.
Back in the closing days of NTSC, I managed to get a few UHF modulators for a song, which would put a standard video device signal out on the UHF TV channel. I had them mixed into the house antenna system, so I could watch the main living room's entertainment devices on one of the other TV's. I absolutely had at least one set to Channel 62.
It was very convenient to put on an old favorite movie, and then have it synchronized on every TV in the house while wandering around doing chores.
link to original post
Were those the devices Radio Shack sold for a few weeks before they were banned?
Quote: billryanQuote: DieterQuote: AZDuffmanRemember when your TV had 2 dials and when the top dial was turned to "U" it lit up the bottom dial which was the UHF fro channels 14-83?
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
link to original post
Wisconsin had (has?) a channel 57. It can be hard to tell nowadays, since the ATSC / DTV kind of masks the raw channel numbers.
Back in the closing days of NTSC, I managed to get a few UHF modulators for a song, which would put a standard video device signal out on the UHF TV channel. I had them mixed into the house antenna system, so I could watch the main living room's entertainment devices on one of the other TV's. I absolutely had at least one set to Channel 62.
It was very convenient to put on an old favorite movie, and then have it synchronized on every TV in the house while wandering around doing chores.
link to original post
Were those the devices Radio Shack sold for a few weeks before they were banned?
link to original post
Sounds about right. I was pretty careful to make sure the rooftop aerial wasn't radiating much.
Quote: billryanLong Island 55 was a much-watched channel with shows like Uncle Floyd. When cable came along, it was bought by Cablevision and is now Cable12/55. I'd watch wrestling and boxing on Spanish-language channels 41 and 47. One was broadcast from New York and Puerto Rican-centric, while the other was from Los Angeles and very Mexican-centric. They also had some interesting variety shows.
Older televisions went up to Channel 83, but those frequencies are now closed to the general public.
link to original post
I spent the first 25 years of my life with only three channels to watch on TV. Four channels if you count public television but I never watch that cuz it was all crap. Then I moved to California and got cable for the first time and was thrilled with all the channels. Fast forward to the present and I haven't had cable in years because it's a whole bunch of channels with nothing to watch that I care about. Anything that's good will eventually show up on one of the subscription sites like Max and Netflix and I don't have to watch commercials and I can see every season one after another without waiting.
Quote: AZDuffmanRemember when your TV had 2 dials and when the top dial was turned to "U" it lit up the bottom dial which was the UHF fro channels 14-83?
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
link to original post
Retro gaming illustrations almost always use the two-dial VHF and UHF TV motif.
Growing up, I had channel 64, but it's a Spanish-language station.
Anyone watch "Weird Al" Yankovic's movie "UHF"? I saw it in the theater!
Quote: billryanLong Island 55 was a much-watched channel with shows like Uncle Floyd. When cable came along, it was bought by Cablevision and is now Cable12/55. I'd watch wrestling and boxing on Spanish-language channels 41 and 47. One was broadcast from New York and Puerto Rican-centric, while the other was from Los Angeles and very Mexican-centric. They also had some interesting variety shows.
Older televisions went up to Channel 83, but those frequencies are now closed to the general public.
link to original post
Oh yeah the Riverhead station. That station used to come in very strong in southern Connecticut, stronger than most in Connecticut, and there was a lot of good stuff on it.
Quote: smoothgrhQuote: AZDuffmanRemember when your TV had 2 dials and when the top dial was turned to "U" it lit up the bottom dial which was the UHF fro channels 14-83?
What is the highest channel anyone remembers? I think 53 is highest I ever tuned into.
link to original post
Retro gaming illustrations almost always use the two-dial VHF and UHF TV motif.
Growing up, I had channel 64, but it's a Spanish-language station.
Anyone watch "Weird Al" Yankovic's movie "UHF"? I saw it in the theater!
link to original post
Saw it once. A fun movie to see *once.* Kramer is in it before he was Kramer.
UHF channels used really have to work to fill their time. Most of us older folks probably remember watching reruns of shows like "Gomer Pyle" which was filled with ads for local trade and business-prep schools. UHF in the 70s and 80s were the home of professional wrestling during the territory days. Usually they had a local-produced kids show.
Today channels are all the same, just plug to the satellite.
Quote: AZDuffman
Today channels are all the same, just plug to the satellite.
link to original post
I think that homogeneity and lack of true curation has fed the surge in on-demand streaming popularity over the last decade.
If they're not going to pick programming that will usually entertain me, I may as well do it myself.
Quote: AZDuffmanMost of us older folks probably remember watching reruns of shows like "Gomer Pyle" which was filled with ads for local trade and business-prep schools.
I still watch Gomer Pyle occasionally. It is on right before Hogan's Heroes which I watch daily.
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanMost of us older folks probably remember watching reruns of shows like "Gomer Pyle" which was filled with ads for local trade and business-prep schools.
I still watch Gomer Pyle occasionally. It is on right before Hogan's Heroes which I watch daily.
link to original post
When I was in junior college I would go back home between classes. It was like Gomer, Hogan, and I forget the other. Odd Couple was on but I didn't like it as much. Turned out a HS buddy was in avionics class where a prof put the same shows on. I kind of think maybe the stations sold out the time wholesale to agencies that put on ads for those schools on shows to appeal to males 18-25 or so.
On "Seinfeld" Kramer once mentioned the ads during Gomer....
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanMost of us older folks probably remember watching reruns of shows like "Gomer Pyle" which was filled with ads for local trade and business-prep schools.
I still watch Gomer Pyle occasionally. It is on right before Hogan's Heroes which I watch daily.
link to original post
I remember when I heard that Jim Nabors was gay. In those days that was not a cool thing to be and everybody was shocked.
Quote: rxwineTetherball -- I kind of remember trying to play this game but it was mostly slamming the ball to wrap around the pole. I think eventually, the ball got knocked off completely and it was just a pole.
link to original post
Our town pool had three tetherball courts in the 1970s, and they got a lot of use. There was a girl a year or two younger than us that kicked everyone's ass. By the mid-1980s, they weren't used much, and eventually they were replaced with a volleyball court, which pickleball courts replaced.
Quote: billryanQuote: rxwineTetherball -- I kind of remember trying to play this game but it was mostly slamming the ball to wrap around the pole. I think eventually, the ball got knocked off completely and it was just a pole.
link to original post
Our town pool had three tetherball courts in the 1970s, and they got a lot of use. There was a girl a year or two younger than us that kicked everyone's ass. By the mid-1980s, they weren't used much, and eventually they were replaced with a volleyball court, which pickleball courts replaced.
link to original post
In the 1950's we played Tetherball all the time. All the playgrounds had their local champs.
To start the game, the challenger had the choice of "sides" or "serve".
If you chose Serve, you would serve to start the game. If you chose Side, you got to chose how the tethered ball swung. Clockwise or Counter clockwise.
Pilot lights we're not invented until 1922 and if you bought a stove in the 1930s or 40s it didn't have a pilot light because they didn't catch on right away and people did not like them because they wasted gas. It was a small gas flame that was always burning 24 hours a day. And when I was a kid in the 1950s everybody had an old stove it's not something that you needed to replace. Us kids had the greatest fun with kitchen matches those things were dangerous. We made match guns where you shoot the match at the sidewalk and it catches on fire. But that was the 50s we did all kinds of stuff that now would either cause parents to pass out or be totally illegal.
Now building inspectors do not approve of such things, but they used to be very common in apartments in northern cities, where there was gas service available. After they were banned the rule as I understood it was that existing gas-on-gas stoves didn't need to be removed, because they were perfectly fine as cook stoves, but there had to be some other heating available so that the general heating function did not need to be used.
My youngest daughter was amazed that there was a fire that made hot water. I understand she goes downstairs and looks through the little window to see it from time to time.
Pilot lights make sense for gas water heaters. Unlike a stove, there isn't usually someone at the controls demanding heat to strike a piezoelectric igniter.
I always found the safety mechanism interesting. If the gas is interrupted and the pilot light goes out, the valve is supposed to close so that the house doesn't fill with gas when the gas supply is restored.
The day the FBI raided my sister's First Communion.
A little background- My mother's family name was Ryan, and she married a Ryan. Her brother Frank was a few years older and became a priest. She also had a much older step-brother named John who was a priest, but we rarely saw him.
My father had a brother, John, who became a priest, and his cousins John and Joe also became priests. In addition, my dad's best friend from the neighborhood was John Ryan, who became a priest.
It's May 1965, and my Dad is stationed at Fort Jay, a restricted-access army base home to the First Army Headquarters and the heart of the new Army Data Processing Service.
My family rented out the patio of the base NCO club, and a couple of dozen family and friends, as well as many of my dad's coworkers and their families, were there.
My Uncle Frank signs in as Father Ryan and is logged in. A little while later, my Uncle John signs in as Father Ryan. Over the next few hours, four more relatives signed in as Father Ryan and received visitor passes. The shift ends, and the logs are sent somewhere for somebody to scrutinize and sign off on.
Somebody notices six Father Ryans have signed in, all with the NCO club as a destination. Someone calls the NCO club and is informed that no party named Ryan has rented any party rooms. No one thinks to look at the patio.
The Cold War is raging, and someone decides to notify the FBI of the security breach. It must have been a slow day for crime because as the party was winding down, a half dozen Army MPs, three CID agents, and two FBI agents were in suits, demanding ID from all the men. One of my older teenage cousins mouths off to an MP who knocks him on his ass, which set off his father, a Marine vet from WW2 who declared he eats Army MPS for breakfast. A confrontation seems likely, but cooler heads prevail. All six priests show their ID, and the FBI leaves. The MPs stick around and argue with someone I don't know, and my Mom decides it's time for the kiddies to play on the jungle gym.
I was six years old, and it was one of the best days of my young life
Enjoyable story, but I was a bit confused. Did you mean to say:
"My mother's married maiden name was Ryan..."?
Dog Hand
Quote: DogHandbillryan,
Enjoyable story, but I was a bit confused. Did you mean to say:
"My mother's married maiden name was Ryan..."?
Dog Hand
link to original post
Both. She was a Ryan and she married a Ryan. I changed the first draft but missed the typo.
Quote: EvenBobAnybody here remember the blue laws that were in every state. They said that no places of business could be open on Sunday except gas stations and only a few of those. I got my first driver's license 60 years ago this month and Sunday was the worst because everything was closed in 1965. I believe there were two gas stations in the entire County that were open. And it stayed that way into the seventies in Michigan. No grocery stores, no convenience stores, couldn't buy liquor or beer of course, movie theaters were closed, it was a ghost town. The year I left 1976 it was changing because of the Supreme Court and I moved to California in 1976 and much to my surprise everything was open on Sunday. What a huge deal that was. But even California had Blue Laws up until the late 1960s when it started to change. Unless you were around in those days you have no idea how much organized religion ran this country. Because of the Hays code until 1968 you could not use foul language in a movie or take the lord's name in vain or show two people in bed together. It wasn't until 1970 when I heard the first f word in a movie and it was shocking because nobody saw it coming.
link to original post
I do remember blue laws, and also their repeal, and also who objected to their repeal. It was a large patchwork of laws that varied down to the local and county level- unless you were in your own town you could never be sure what was open on Sunday. Sometimes the law was fashioned so that you had to be closed one day a week, and living in the Northeast, of course there were many establishments that chose to be closed on Saturday. These laws were supported not so much by organized religions but by unions, as many more common workers were in unions back then, and also small, family owned stores who have a lot of influence locally. For them to be open 7 days a week would be very onerous, and put them at a competitive disadvantage with large stores for whom being open on Sunday would require no more than rearranging the schedule of some minimum wage employees.
The reason why there were a lot of social changes in 1968-1970 was generational. Those were the years that the WWII generation took full control of things, being around 50 years of age on average, they were being elected to office and taking senior positions in corporations. The previous generation, the one that gave us the Hays Code, was still marching to the beat of Queen Victoria and her court and the closer you were to those values the higher your class was considered to be, for them. But the WWII guys were the first generation to grow up with broadcasting, as well as with words in movies at all. They also had obviously a very high rate of military service, where they learned that foul language is OK if it helps you get your point across, that a person of another race might not be so bad, that smoking and drinking exist to be enjoyed not prohibited, and that a man who says he doesn't like pinup girls or those secret little picture books is either a liar, or something even worse. You can see those attitudes reflected in the culture of that era. It wasn't really the hippies or stereotypical "60s liberals" who authorized all these changes, it was their fathers who recognized that such things as cursing in movies, outright porn in some cases, racial integration, unladylike behavior, and a laissez-faire approach to one's religious obligations won't kill us.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: EvenBobAnybody here remember the blue laws that were in every state. They said that no places of business could be open on Sunday except gas stations and only a few of those. I got my first driver's license 60 years ago this month and Sunday was the worst because everything was closed in 1965. I believe there were two gas stations in the entire County that were open. And it stayed that way into the seventies in Michigan. No grocery stores, no convenience stores, couldn't buy liquor or beer of course, movie theaters were closed, it was a ghost town. The year I left 1976 it was changing because of the Supreme Court and I moved to California in 1976 and much to my surprise everything was open on Sunday. What a huge deal that was. But even California had Blue Laws up until the late 1960s when it started to change. Unless you were around in those days you have no idea how much organized religion ran this country. Because of the Hays code until 1968 you could not use foul language in a movie or take the lord's name in vain or show two people in bed together. It wasn't until 1970 when I heard the first f word in a movie and it was shocking because nobody saw it coming.
link to original post
I do remember blue laws, and also their repeal, and also who objected to their repeal. It was a large patchwork of laws that varied down to the local and county level- unless you were in your own town you could never be sure what was open on Sunday. Sometimes the law was fashioned so that you had to be closed one day a week, and living in the Northeast, of course there were many establishments that chose to be closed on Saturday. These laws were supported not so much by organized religions but by unions, as many more common workers were in unions back then, and also small, family owned stores who have a lot of influence locally. For them to be open 7 days a week would be very onerous, and put them at a competitive disadvantage with large stores for whom being open on Sunday would require no more than rearranging the schedule of some minimum wage employees.
The reason why there were a lot of social changes in 1968-1970 was generational. Those were the years that the WWII generation took full control of things, being around 50 years of age on average, they were being elected to office and taking senior positions in corporations. The previous generation, the one that gave us the Hays Code, was still marching to the beat of Queen Victoria and her court and the closer you were to those values the higher your class was considered to be, for them. But the WWII guys were the first generation to grow up with broadcasting, as well as with words in movies at all. They also had obviously a very high rate of military service, where they learned that foul language is OK if it helps you get your point across, that a person of another race might not be so bad, that smoking and drinking exist to be enjoyed not prohibited, and that a man who says he doesn't like pinup girls or those secret little picture books is either a liar, or something even worse. You can see those attitudes reflected in the culture of that era. It wasn't really the hippies or stereotypical "60s liberals" who authorized all these changes, it was their fathers who recognized that such things as cursing in movies, outright porn in some cases, racial integration, unladylike behavior, and a laissez-faire approach to one's religious obligations won't kill us.
link to original post
I was told the blue laws came from the grip that religion had in this country and keeping the Sabbath a day of rest. I know that in small town America if you moved in and opened a store of any kind and you didn't go to one of the local churches, you didn't get any business. You didn't have to be religious, all you had to do was show that you were not an atheist. The best way to drum up business was to make friends at church and never even think about being open on Sunday. I remember back in the late sixties early seventies if you wanted liquor you had to find the guy who was called a bootlegger who sold stuff out of his trunk for cash at a huge markup. And if you wanted beer for the whole weekend you better get it Saturday.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: EvenBobAnybody here remember the blue laws that were in every state. They said that no places of business could be open on Sunday except gas stations and only a few of those. I got my first driver's license 60 years ago this month and Sunday was the worst because everything was closed in 1965. I believe there were two gas stations in the entire County that were open. And it stayed that way into the seventies in Michigan. No grocery stores, no convenience stores, couldn't buy liquor or beer of course, movie theaters were closed, it was a ghost town. The year I left 1976 it was changing because of the Supreme Court and I moved to California in 1976 and much to my surprise everything was open on Sunday. What a huge deal that was. But even California had Blue Laws up until the late 1960s when it started to change. Unless you were around in those days you have no idea how much organized religion ran this country. Because of the Hays code until 1968 you could not use foul language in a movie or take the lord's name in vain or show two people in bed together. It wasn't until 1970 when I heard the first f word in a movie and it was shocking because nobody saw it coming.
link to original post
I do remember blue laws, and also their repeal, and also who objected to their repeal. It was a large patchwork of laws that varied down to the local and county level- unless you were in your own town you could never be sure what was open on Sunday. Sometimes the law was fashioned so that you had to be closed one day a week, and living in the Northeast, of course there were many establishments that chose to be closed on Saturday. These laws were supported not so much by organized religions but by unions, as many more common workers were in unions back then, and also small, family owned stores who have a lot of influence locally. For them to be open 7 days a week would be very onerous, and put them at a competitive disadvantage with large stores for whom being open on Sunday would require no more than rearranging the schedule of some minimum wage employees.
The reason why there were a lot of social changes in 1968-1970 was generational. Those were the years that the WWII generation took full control of things, being around 50 years of age on average, they were being elected to office and taking senior positions in corporations. The previous generation, the one that gave us the Hays Code, was still marching to the beat of Queen Victoria and her court and the closer you were to those values the higher your class was considered to be, for them. But the WWII guys were the first generation to grow up with broadcasting, as well as with words in movies at all. They also had obviously a very high rate of military service, where they learned that foul language is OK if it helps you get your point across, that a person of another race might not be so bad, that smoking and drinking exist to be enjoyed not prohibited, and that a man who says he doesn't like pinup girls or those secret little picture books is either a liar, or something even worse. You can see those attitudes reflected in the culture of that era. It wasn't really the hippies or stereotypical "60s liberals" who authorized all these changes, it was their fathers who recognized that such things as cursing in movies, outright porn in some cases, racial integration, unladylike behavior, and a laissez-faire approach to one's religious obligations won't kill us.
link to original post
I was told the blue laws came from the grip that religion had in this country and keeping the Sabbath a day of rest. I know that in small town America if you moved in and opened a store of any kind and you didn't go to one of the local churches, you didn't get any business. You didn't have to be religious, all you had to do was show that you were not an atheist. The best way to drum up business was to make friends at church and never even think about being open on Sunday. I remember back in the late sixties early seventies if you wanted liquor you had to find the guy who was called a bootlegger who sold stuff out of his trunk for cash at a huge markup. And if you wanted beer for the whole weekend you better get it Saturday.
link to original post
That was the origination of those laws, for sure, but the reason why they persisted for so long even in communities where they are not effusively religious, was because that's how the townspeople liked it. The idea of a Sabbath comes from the Old Testament, which includes not only the foundation of the Jewish religion but a secular code for a society, and while we may now think of Old Testament jurisprudence as being cruel and vengeful, by the standards of its time it was quite clement, reasonable and effective for maintaining civil peace and order. That's why a lot of it carried over to our modern society, and our blue laws may have started out as "because it's in the Bible" but it also had the effect of protecting workers and small businesses, just like it did in the age of the ancient Sabbath. When we had slaves in the US, because working on Sunday was seen as a sin for anyone even the slaves got to rest. The mandatory Sabbath has done good for countless people throughout thousands of years of history, and what harm has it done, someone had to wait until Monday to buy booze?
I've never lived in a place where church attendance or any kind of religious performance was expected, mostly Northeastern cities where half the people were Catholic, half were something else so it was generally treated as a non-issue; your religious devotions and your preferred building to visit on Sunday (or Friday night/ Saturday) were your own business. However I do remember old people, of background Irish or Scottish or some combination thereof who still did Catholic vs. Protestant. I found it fascinating like I did everything else, but was told- you are a child, you keep your nose out of that or you will be starting a fight you will not finish.
Quote: EvenBob
I was told the blue laws came from the grip that religion had in this country and keeping the Sabbath a day of rest. I know that in small town America if you moved in and opened a store of any kind and you didn't go to one of the local churches, you didn't get any business. You didn't have to be religious, all you had to do was show that you were not an atheist. The best way to drum up business was to make friends at church and never even think about being open on Sunday. I remember back in the late sixties early seventies if you wanted liquor you had to find the guy who was called a bootlegger who sold stuff out of his trunk for cash at a huge markup. And if you wanted beer for the whole weekend you better get it Saturday.
link to original post
I believe Wisconsin reinstated Sunday liquor sales in 1874.
You still can't buy a car in the state on Sunday, but given the number of times we need a crate of liquor vs a new car, this seems a fairly minor inconvenience.
Quote: AutomaticMonkey
I've never lived in a place where church attendance or any kind of religious performance was expected, mostly Northeastern cities where half the people were Catholic, half were something else so it was generally treated as a non-issue; your religious devotions and your preferred building to visit on Sunday (or Friday night/ Saturday) were your own business. However I do remember old people, of background Irish or Scottish or some combination thereof who still did Catholic vs. Protestant. I found it fascinating like I did everything else, but was told- you are a child, you keep your nose out of that or you will be starting a fight you will not finish.
link to original post
It was mostly in small towns from about 1900 through the 1940s that if you were a stranger and you opened a business and didn't go to one of the local churches nobody trusted you and they wouldn't give you any business. One of the first things you did is picked a church and introduced yourself and told everybody who you were and what your business was and you would be off to a good start. It's not just a cliche that in small towns everybody knew everybody else and everybody knew everybody's business and if you didn't go to church people assumed you were an atheist which was the same thing as being Satan himself. Or later on, a communist. I remember the days when being a communist was just about the worst thing you could be, unlike today when it seems like some people think it's cool.
