Democrats & Republicans are both full of crap

My complaint about Democrats: When George W. Bush was in office, liberals complained that the Patriot Act was evil, and the Iraq War was illegal. But Obama signed an extension to the Patriot Act in May 2011, and hardly any liberals made a fuss that the police state is now bipartisan. As foolish as the Iraq War was, at least Bush had authorization from Congress, something Obama never had when he launched military action against Libya. Libya seems to have a happy ending (for now) but it sets a horrible precedent for future presidents who launch an unconstitutional war without Congressional oversight. Why aren’t liberals holding Obama to the same standard as they did Bush?

My complaint about Republicans: The ideology of modern conservatism seems to be that government can’t be trusted, government usually screws things up, government employees are incompetent, and government has no business interfering with our private lives. Conservatives also believe that 100% of death row inmates are guilty because government employees never make mistakes. Is it possible that any of the 1,266 Americans executed since 1976 were innocent? Maybe a couple. Pro-life conservatives don’t seem to mind when government executes the occasional innocent man, just so long as no government bureaucrats tell them what kind of lightbulb to buy.

I don't disagree except some liberals do strongly dislike Obama.
See a sites like http://www.democraticunderground.com/

Quote: reno

Democrats & Republicans are both full of crap

Tell me something I don't know.

where you are going wrong with your complaints about republicans is....they dont think goverment can't be trusted or incompetent...they think the FEDERAL goverment is incompetent and cant be trusted.....they have no problem with state goverment really.....they may disagree with some goverment actions within their own state.....But they problem with state goverment in general.....Conservatives and republicans believe decisions and money spent are best done LOCAL.....They dont want to be told whats best for there local community or schools from a bureaucracy thousands of miles away.....that has no first hand knowledge of the needs of that community....

Quote: vert1276

where you are going wrong with your complaints about republicans is....they dont think goverment can't be trusted or incompetent...they think the FEDERAL goverment is incompetent and cant be trusted.....they have no problem with state goverment really...

State governors have tremendous power to decide who lives and who dies on death row. I'm amused that conservatives are willing to trust crooked politicians like Gov Rod Blagojevich (D-IL) or Gov Eliot Spitzer (D-NY) with that sort of power. And if they have such distrust in the federal government, why aren't conservatives upset that there are 54 Americans on federal death row who are at the mercy of Kenyan socialist Barack Hussein Obama? So long as Obama doesn't tell them what kind of lightbulbs to buy, Republicans have no concerns about him signing death warrants.

Quote: reno

State governors have tremendous power to decide who lives and who dies on death row. I'm amused that conservatives are willing to trust crooked politicians like Gov Rod Blagojevich (D-IL) or Gov Eliot Spitzer (D-NY) with that sort of power. And if they have such distrust in the federal government, why aren't conservatives upset that there are 54 Americans on federal death row who are at the mercy of Kenyan socialist Barack Hussein Obama? So long as Obama doesn't tell them what kind of lightbulbs to buy, Republicans have no concerns about him signing death warrants.

well no one is saying their is not crooked state politicians......Republicans are just saying LOCAL decisions that affect peoples life's are usually better than FEDERAL decisions.....Would you rather have or county or city making decisions about how local schools spend money and what they teach....Or the department of education in DC?.....

I can see you are kind obsessed with the death penalty......But lets not forget...It was not the state or the federal goverment that put those people on death row.....it was 12 of their peers...

Quote: vert1276

.Would you rather have or county or city making decisions about how local schools spend money and what they teach....Or the department of education in DC?....

Most definitely the department of education for what they teach.

I'm sure there were (are) people who still would like to slant a version of the civil war (was it about state's rights or slavery debate).

Evolution will be taught in some states and not in others.

There are plenty of politicians of many stripes in Washington and other people at Federal levels with many viewpoints. If not, what's all that crap they fight about up there in Washington?

I'm not against some trade-off agreed to by local and federal, but not outright make up your own standards.

I thought the Civil War was fought over state's right to cede from the Union... it just so happened that the big splitting point was slave ownership (a no compromise item, it would seem).

Possibly a debate for another thread though...

Quote: reno

Why aren’t liberals holding Obama to the same standard as they did Bush?

Because he's on their side.

Why didn't the GOP rake Bush over the coals when eh asked for an increase on the debt ceiling? Same reason.

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My complaint about Republicans: The ideology of modern conservatism seems to be that government can’t be trusted, government usually screws things up, government employees are incompetent, and government has no business interfering with our private lives.

Ah, if only that were the Republican ideology <sigh>

truth is the Republicans very much want government to interfere in private lives, so long as they get to decide in what areas. they'll raise holy hell if government wants you to buy a kind of light bulb, and rightly so. But they'll cheer if government decrees a woman ought to be kept pregnant against her wishes, or that a person must be kept alive on life support against the wishes of their next-of-kin.

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Conservatives also believe that 100% of death row inmates are guilty because government employees never make mistakes.

Oh, no. they believe it because they've been charged, and why would the police arrest and the D.A. bring charges against someone who wasn't guilty? Democrats believe the same thing in other types of cases.

Quote:

Is it possible that any of the 1,266 Americans executed since 1976 were innocent?

Certainly. That's the one valid objection to the death penalty. That despite the best intentions and utter competence and safeguards, it will always be possible to execute an innocent person, or one guilty of a lesser offense.

The way I look at it:

Some people have a few core reasons they vote for one or the other candidate. These are non-compromise. A candidate has failed if he/she does not meet those requirements.

Some vote because there is hodgepodge of things that gets passed that you support. Or maybe don't get passed or repealed.

Some vote the least of two evils.

So far as I know there has never been a President that hasn't ended up clearly compromising on something. (some refer to it as lying)

Even still, there are other factors. Certainly, the questions surrounding "enhanced interrogation" would likely have never been an issue until something as significant as 911. We might never be aware of a President's actual position until he/she is in office on stuff like that. It might make us inclined to consider them success or failures as well.

A failing a economy is probably never not going to be an issue. Wars, are probably second on that list. If not for those things, it would just be something else of course.

Quote: reno

My complaint about Democrats: When George W. Bush was in office, liberals complained that the Patriot Act was evil, and the Iraq War was illegal. But Obama signed an extension to the Patriot Act in May 2011, and hardly any liberals made a fuss

Don't kid yourself, they had fricking cows in private. The last
2 seasons of Boston Legal were on in 2007 and 08. It was an
extremely Lib show and they took every opportunity to bash
Bush and the Patriot Act and Iraq. They frequently mentioned
Obama in 08 and how the world would be all rainbows and
lollipops when he took office. Obama has fulfilled NONE of the
promises he made in 08 the Libs hate his guts for it.

Quote: vert1276

Republicans are just saying LOCAL decisions that affect peoples life's are usually better than FEDERAL decisions.....Would you rather have or county or city making decisions about how local schools spend money and what they teach

Local control of education is probably not a good example for conservatives to bring up: Bush and the Congressional Republicans passed No Child Left Behind which was specifically written to allow the federal government to interfere with local school districts. That's not the only example of federal overreach that conservatives ought to be embarrassed about: Bush and the Congressional Republicans got the federal government involved in Terry Shiavo's case. And during the 2000 campaign Bush pretended that medical marijuana was a states' rights issue but once he took office, the Bush justice department raided over 200 California dispensaries. I could go on with other examples but you get the idea: Republican politicians in Washington love interfering in local politics even as they lecture us about states' rights.

Quote: vert1276

I can see you are kind obsessed with the death penalty

Yes, and there are 2 reasons for this.

1) Abolition of the death penalty ought to be a conservative cause, based upon conservative rhetoric. Republicans hate expensive government programs that waste taxpayer dollars. But California Republicans (Gov Pete Wilson & Gov Arnold Shwarzenegger) don't mind spending $300 million for each execution. The numbers are better in, say, Maryland, but the cost is still $37 million per execution. I'll give Texas credit: they have streamlined the assembly line to keep costs to a low $2.3million per execution. Good job Texas! But that's 3 times more expensive than life in jail. Why not cut taxes and sentence the death row inmates to life in jail? Conservative fans of the death penalty are embracing a taxpayer subsidized welfare program for wealthy defense lawyers.

2) Republican candidate Rick Perry has been accused of executing an innocent man. That is a very serious allegation that ought to be easily rebutted immediately by his allies in the conservative media. But what have we heard from Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Michele Malkin, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, George Will, Wall Street Journal, Fox News, etc? Silence. The conservative pundits don't like talking about this case because there are no eye-witnesses or scientific evidence supporting the conviction. The prosecution alleges that Cameron Todd Willingham doused his daughters' bedroom with lighter fluid and set the house on fire. Forensic scientists have been unable to find trace residue of lighter fluid inside the house. (There was lighter fluid residue on the front porch, next to the barbeque grill, but the fire started in the bedroom at the back of the house.) The prosecution's star witness is a cocaine addict who recanted his testimony and then recanted his recantation.

Quote: vert1276

It was not the state or the federal goverment that put those people on death row.....it was 12 of their peers...

Yes, and at least one juror in the Willingham case admits she doesn't sleep well at night anymore.

The Willingham case proves everything the conservatives have been saying for years: occasionally government makes mistakes. Life sentences can be overturned. Executions can't.