Thread Rating:

mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
December 14th, 2010 at 10:57:05 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

There is/was a fine but drastic line between Bolshevistic Communism and National Socialism... and Mussolini walked across it. The Communists believed in class-warfare and the struggle to move the socialist revolution forward via the Working Class (Urban or Rural depending...). The National Socialists believed the socialist revolution for the working class would be made by bolstering a them-and-us attitude to outside influences.

I don't know if I would say Hitler is far-left... Fascism is and Communism live far down into the Statist control that there's little room left for right/left debates.



I dunno--it seems like all of those political philosophies were just labels. Mussolini, Nazis, Communists---it's all the same: "We own everything, everybody has to obey us, and if anybody objects, we'll kill you."
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
December 14th, 2010 at 11:00:41 PM permalink
One important difference I forgot about was the ownership of the means of production (Property in Marx's terms).

Communism had state ownership, while the Nazi party had private ownership, and feted the industrialists.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 735
December 15th, 2010 at 2:16:37 PM permalink
i think it's true that Communism and Fascism would look pretty much the same to the general citizenry.

I think we often think too rigidly of a straight-line continuum with "left" on one side and "right" on the other. I think it's better to take the ends of that continuum and bend them towards each other into a ring-shape with "left" and "right" being disconnected only by their labels.

I think a better continuum is Freedom and Not-Freedom, and I think political policy and discourse is better measured by those labels rather than "left" and "right". Those things can't, by definition, look the same in the way that Communism and Facism can look the same. Obviously, the extreme on the Freedom end would be Anarchy, which would look a whole lot different to the general citizenry than what we saw in Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

If it's helpful, I also think that Love and Hate are very similar emotions, and could be bent around into the ring shape as described above. I don't think the opposite of Love is Hate; I think the opposite is Indifference.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
December 15th, 2010 at 3:45:17 PM permalink
Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

If it's helpful, I also think that Love and Hate are very similar emotions, and could be bent around into the ring shape as described above. I don't think the opposite of Love is Hate; I think the opposite is Indifference.



Actually love and hate are similar only in that they both arouse passions. But at root they are different things. They can lead to each other, though, because of the passions involved.

say you love a woman and marry her. You'll be good to her, right? You'll do what you can to amke her happy, because you love her. If you find out she's cheating on you, that passion you ahve for her may remain but turn into passion against her: hate.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 735
December 16th, 2010 at 7:43:51 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Actually love and hate are similar only in that they both arouse passions. But at root they are different things. They can lead to each other, though, because of the passions involved.

say you love a woman and marry her. You'll be good to her, right? You'll do what you can to amke her happy, because you love her. If you find out she's cheating on you, that passion you ahve for her may remain but turn into passion against her: hate.



I think that's exactly my point. The continuum is commonly thought of as Love-to-Hate, but a better continuum is Passion-to-Indifference. Colloquially, the "hate" in a lot of situations can turn into "love" very quickly .. at least that's been my experience with make-up sex, which is always edgier because it's further down to the "passion" end than, say, Vegas sex.

Of course, there are many "dimensions" and picking just one is always problematic, but if we were to pick just one, I think Passion-Indefference is a better choice than Love-Hate.

Likewise, I think the political continuum of Left-to-Right is not the best, but a better continuum would be Freedom-to-Not-Freedom.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
December 16th, 2010 at 9:50:00 AM permalink
Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

I think that's exactly my point. The continuum is commonly thought of as Love-to-Hate, but a better continuum is Passion-to-Indifference. Colloquially, the "hate" in a lot of situations can turn into "love" very quickly .. at least that's been my experience with make-up sex, which is always edgier because it's further down to the "passion" end than, say, Vegas sex.

Of course, there are many "dimensions" and picking just one is always problematic, but if we were to pick just one, I think Passion-Indefference is a better choice than Love-Hate.

Likewise, I think the political continuum of Left-to-Right is not the best, but a better continuum would be Freedom-to-Not-Freedom.



That's the basis of that political quiz I posted -- preferring freedom in both the personal and economic realms is the domain of libertarianism, while lack of those freedoms is statist. According to the libertarians, preferring one kind of freedom to the other is the domain of liberals (+personal, -economic) or conservatives (-personal, +economic).
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

  • Jump to: