Stratosphere "What happened to Vegas?" commercial shot at 6-5 tables
I'm not sure what they were thinking here, but I found it funny that they showed in the commercial exactly what was wrong with Vegas without probably knowing it by using 6-5 blackjack felts. Of the 20 blackjack tables at Stratosphere, 16 of them pay 6-5.
Quote:Stratosphere launched "What happened to Vegas?" ad campaign, while at same time charging $18 resort fee, spreading 6-5 BJ and no 99%+ VP.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI saw it remarked on twitter:
That is me. I went to visit to make sure that is still the case and it is. I'm writing an article on it but waiting to see if I get PR reply before publishing it.
If anything, I always thought of the Strat as an unintentionally satirical "monument" to a whacked-out huckster (though a popular guy and a nice enough fellow in-person I found) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Stupak ...besides being a handy substitute for a compass from pretty much anywhere in the valley. Do people know Stupak's creation was the original epic "Oops!" years before Harmon at City Center? When he built it and "saved money" by becoming his own general contractor they put the base of one of the three legs holding it up in the wrong place. Still is. Fixed up at least the appearance of the fundamental structural screw-up by making the base look sorta symmetrical with the addition of some glorified Styrofoam (a cosmetic product called something else in the building trades - but basically cosmetic non-load-bearing foam).
First thing I thought of when I heard it was, "Don't they have almost all 6:5 BJ there?"
Quote: aceofspadesThe long version
It's bad enough that you can see the table printing says blackjack pays 6 to 5, but at the next to last scene of this long version, the dealer is sweeping a losing bet. I mean come on! Can't they script a winner? They're playing with fake chips! Surely they can fake some winning hands!
Quote: DJTeddyBear
It's bad enough that you can see the table printing says blackjack pays 6 to 5, but at the next to last scene of this long version, the dealer is sweeping a losing bet. I mean come on! Can't they script a winner? They're playing with fake chips! Surely they can fake some winning hands!
In the one I link to in the OP there is a player blackjack on the table in the opening seconds that has not been paid before the dealer draws.
It seems to be accepted as fact that trying to get the kind of players that don't want 6:5 etc is a non-starter with the powers-that-be
ZCore13
I'm not sure how successful, CC is but it always seems busy to me. Nowadays It seems mostly filled with mexican families.Quote: Zcore13That's a good commercial to to get first time visitors to Vegas to try them. Not everyone can afford what much of the Strip has turned into. There is definitely a market for the old Vegas World/Circus Circus crowd.
ZCore13
I'm not sure how successful, CC is but it always seems busy to me. Nowadays It seems mostly filled with mexican families.Quote: Zcore13That's a good commercial to to get first time visitors to Vegas to try them. Not everyone can afford what much of the Strip has turned into. There is definitely a market for the old Vegas World/Circus Circus crowd.
ZCore13
I wish there was a bigger social media platform we could use as a speaker phone to educate the public that 6-5 isn't blackjack. As soon as you 'inform' all the ploppies that the game is literally 4 times as bad as a 3-2 game then they'll start shouting back, ultimately dumping 6-5 games.
I mean, as a counter, you could just play quarters or go off strip... but as someone looking at Vegas as a 'vacation destination' the strip has just gone so down hill in terms of gambling/drink prices/hotel prices/etc. Isn't that why tourists go to Vegas? To drink and gamble without paying $500/night for a hotel room?
Quote: RomesMy god the irony of complaining about how Vegas used to be while showing a 6-5 blackjack table...
I wish there was a bigger social media platform we could use as a speaker phone to educate the public that 6-5 isn't blackjack. As soon as you 'inform' all the ploppies that the game is literally 4 times as bad as a 3-2 game then they'll start shouting back, ultimately dumping 6-5 games.
I mean, as a counter, you could just play quarters or go off strip... but as someone looking at Vegas as a 'vacation destination' the strip has just gone so down hill in terms of gambling/drink prices/hotel prices/etc. Isn't that why tourists go to Vegas? To drink and gamble without paying $500/night for a hotel room?
Which is why this commercial will hit a nerve with many people. And you are completely wrong on the 6-5 thing. Most players don't really care. Nobody asks about house edge or volatility or frequency or any of that. 95% of players are just playing for fun. They play keno and roulette and penny slots. Do you really think a 6-5 blackjack that has a lower house edge than the other games I just mentioned is going to turn them off?
ZCore13
SET it up and get members here interested, someone needs to take the first step, Ill join in as long as its not just about 6-5. Perhaps Zuga would allow WOO to link to a Twitter feed about better odds on everything Vegas and major gambling destinations.Quote: RomesMy god the irony of complaining about how Vegas used to be while showing a 6-5 blackjack table...
I wish there was a bigger social media platform we could use as a speaker phone to educate the public that 6-5 isn't blackjack.
I always wondered if gamblers/Vacationers / vegas locals/ enthusiasts could organize some type of club/union or something. They could negotiate with casinos for better games, deals, promotions. They could Boycott casinos with horrible odds and comps. I have a feeling casinos will negotiate if you bring in groups of people to stay at there casinos. I know a few gamblers( I'm not talking big wales, but players who just $5 denomination VP) they have got management to put in FPDW , 10/7, 9/6 etc etc
Quote: Zcore13Which is why this commercial will hit a nerve with many people. And you are completely wrong on the 6-5 thing. Most players don't really care. Nobody asks about house edge or volatility or frequency or any of that. 95% of players are just playing for fun. They play keno and roulette and penny slots. Do you really think a 6-5 blackjack that has a lower house edge than the other games I just mentioned is going to turn them off?
ZCore13
I agree with this 100%. A 2% hold at BJ is not the Las Vegas problem. The Las Vegas problem is the proliferation of gaming both in the U.S. and abroad.
Quote: Zcore13Which is why this commercial will hit a nerve with many people. And you are completely wrong on the 6-5 thing. Most players don't really care. Nobody asks about house edge or volatility or frequency or any of that. 95% of players are just playing for fun. They play keno and roulette and penny slots. Do you really think a 6-5 blackjack that has a lower house edge than the other games I just mentioned is going to turn them off?
ZCore13
ZCore is right. You also have to consider the average recreational player's bankroll and willingness to lose. A $5 bet at a 6:5 table carries an expected loss of about 10 cents. A $25 bet at a 3:2 table carries an expected loss of about 14 cents. Many 3:2 tables in Vegas are now $25 minimums. If you're just a tourist betting table min, which would you choose?
Granted I see lots of tourists betting $25 and up at 6:5 tables, and these folks would benefit from some education. But there will be no uprising or 'shouting.' 6:5 is here to stay.
Yes, this. Remember that the most important type of Las Vegas gaming device is not any kind of table or machine. It is the hotel tower. Second place is the convention hall/event stage.Quote: Zcore13Which is why this commercial will hit a nerve with many people. And you are completely wrong on the 6-5 thing. Most players don't really care. Nobody asks about house edge or volatility or frequency or any of that. 95% of players are just playing for fun. They play keno and roulette and penny slots. Do you really think a 6-5 blackjack that has a lower house edge than the other games I just mentioned is going to turn them off?
ZCore13
And for a lot of locals, the most attractive draw for moving was no closing time or "last call" for booze.
Quote: Zcore13Which is why this commercial will hit a nerve with many people. And you are completely wrong on the 6-5 thing. Most players don't really care. Nobody asks about house edge or volatility or frequency or any of that. 95% of players are just playing for fun. They play keno and roulette and penny slots. Do you really think a 6-5 blackjack that has a lower house edge than the other games I just mentioned is going to turn them off?
ZCore13
Excellent point Zcore. My 'education' of the players was not intended to be "omg this house edge is X and it's going to effect you 1 out of every 26 hands, and blah blah." I would use ploppy lingo to educate/frustrate the regular tourist (just as the casino does to attract them). It would be more something like "can you believe that Vegas is changing all of their blackjack tables so the house now has 4 times the advantage, or more?!?! Combine this with the over the top drink/club/meal/hotel prices and my how Vegas has strayed from what it used to be!"
This more emphasizes what tourists looking for the "Vegas" experience hate... change. This would drive a lot more people to 'do something', or sign up for something to show their unhappiness with these new changes. Basically I'm taking a page out of congress's book and lumping in the 6:5 problem in with the rest of the problems discussed in that video (that are more noticed by a typical tourist). I would imagine this to get some response. Also, to be perfectly honest, I don't expect 6:5 will ever go away now. It's made it's mark and is here... I'm just trying to think of ways to shake the cage enough to at least offer BOTH games at the same levels (aka $5 3-2 shoe BJ). I might be reaching a little deep, but I just don't want to let the decent games go without a fight =).
Quote: DJTeddyBearIt's bad enough that you can see the table printing says blackjack pays 6 to 5, but at the next to last scene of this long version, the dealer is sweeping a losing bet. I mean come on! Can't they script a winner? They're playing with fake chips! Surely they can fake some winning hands!
The only thing that would have been better is if the dealer was paying off 6:5 and he was getting all happy about a blackjack.
Theoretically speaking, what if every ploppy somehow magically learned to count over night and they began doing it on the strip. You could say bye bye to any decent 3:2 game remaining.
Sometimes it's best to not educate others.
You want people to understand enough to avoid 6-5 and to think they know how to play.Quote: RSPloppies are a two-way sword. Them being dumb is what allows APs (card counters) to profit. If the public starts to get smarter then the casino makes less money off the ploppies.
Theoretically speaking, what if every ploppy somehow magically learned to count over night and they began doing it on the strip. You could say bye bye to any decent 3:2 game remaining.
Sometimes it's best to not educate others.
Kettle is black.
Advertising Agency is black hearted.
Sure Vegas is suffering from competition all over the place but the image of Sin City should mean something more than just getting stuck with super high restaurant tabs, high room prices and games that fail the "free drink" test. Its a test I just now invented: If the casino serves you a thimble sized plastic cup with what is obviously cheap booze highly watered down, you know you won't be happy. If the casino has the same value system applied to their games; its the same experience even if some of the players don't know nuttin' 'bout six to five. They always know when they get reemed, even if they don't know the math.
GAME 1:
$5min
6D
DOA
DAS
No Surrender
S17
3:2 BJ
GAME 2:
$5min
6D
DOA
DAS
No Surrender
S17
6:5 BJ
Quote: aceofspadesWhat would you all think would happen if the following two blackjack games were placed right next to one another on the casino floor:
Both would be crowded, and people would play whichever game had a seat available.
Quote: DocBoth would be crowded, and people would play whichever game had a seat available.
My thoughts exactly
However, if the casino is crowded and your only choices are 6:5 or don't play, I can see lots of people playing for $5.
Quote: DRichI agree with this 100%. A 2% hold at BJ is not the Las Vegas problem. The Las Vegas problem is the proliferation of gaming both in the U.S. and abroad.
Totally agree, but it's still a huge whining point at the other forum I post in a lot from red chip players. And Las Vegas is doing better than any other "mature market" in the US I think because they are trying to convert themselves to a party/convention destination while the other markets aren't being as proactive.
Quote: DocBoth would be crowded, and people would play whichever game had a seat available.
If you change the 6:5 game to single deck and leave the 3:2 game at 6 decks, I'm pretty sure the single deck would have more. People are that dumb about it, seriously.
Quote: aceofspadesWhat would you all think would happen if the following two blackjack games were placed right next to one another on the casino floor:
GAME 1:
$5min
6D
DOA
DAS
No Surrender
S17
3:2 BJ
GAME 2:
$5min
6D
DOA
DAS
No Surrender
S17
6:5 BJ
If the dealer at game 2 has big tits and the dealer at game 1 doesn't, game 2 will certainly be packed.
Quote: tringlomaneIf you change the 6:5 game to single deck and leave the 3:2 game at 6 decks, I'm pretty sure the single deck would have more. People are that dumb about it, seriously.
what I don't get is how come people know single deck = "good" but have no idea what BJ is supposed to pay?
for myself, I knew zilch about BJ not so long ago, so to me [then] to use 6-8 decks just meant a thing to make card counting hard. I didn't view single deck [edit] as a better game in any other way ... the general public knows this?
Quote: DocI think I have played 6:5 exactly once, and that was by error. I didn't recognize it until I was dealt a blackjack on my second or third hand. I looked at the short payout, read the felt, and then looked at the dealer. I said, "Sorry. My mistake. I thought this was a blackjack table." Then I stood, picked up my chips, and left.
However, if the casino is crowded and your only choices are 6:5 or don't play, I can see lots of people playing for $5.
I think Doc is right. They may not even notice the table is 6:5, or even think about the difference between 6:5 and 3:2. The world if full of dumb or lazy gamblers.
The evidence of this is every casino anywhere, who has installed 6:5 tables, and gets plenty of action on them. If the world was full of smart gamblers they would be deserted.
I personally been at single deck or spanish 21 tables...and despite all the signage and different layouts. People often sit down buy in for chips and then notice it's a different game, only when the cards are dealt, or sometimes not even then. I actually had people ask me at single deck...why are the cards face down. I explain it's single deck you pick them up and play them. They almost always use two hands and get yelled at by the dealer. They play for two hands look puzzled and leave usually.
Quote: thecesspitThe table with dealer with large assets would get more action.
This is also very true.
But some people don't want to be bothered with that. That is their choice, of course.
Some people like to play slots. I like to play Video Poker. I do believe that the high house advantage games help support the availability of the lower house advantage games, promotions, etc.
ps:
In my youth, I liked the Strat because it had a handful of ~100% VP games, and the rooms were inexpensive.
A mixture of games, a mixture of rules, an ebb and flow of customers with ever changing whims and preferences.
Quote: vendman1I think Doc is right. They may not even notice the table is 6:5, or even think about the difference between 6:5 and 3:2. The world if full of dumb or lazy gamblers.
The evidence of this is every casino anywhere, who has installed 6:5 tables, and gets plenty of action on them. If the world was full of smart gamblers they would be deserted.
I personally been at single deck or spanish 21 tables...and despite all the signage and different layouts. People often sit down buy in for chips and then notice it's a different game, only when the cards are dealt, or sometimes not even then. I actually had people ask me at single deck...why are the cards face down. I explain it's single deck you pick them up and play them. They almost always use two hands and get yelled at by the dealer. They play for two hands look puzzled and leave usually.
I dunno why they deal the cards face down.
There's places that deal SD/DD face up. Same game minus the confusion by new players, mishandling/damaging of cards by drunk players, and all kinds of cheating scams involving switching/marked cards (it's so easy to mark cards in a face down game it's not even funny), and it's harder to cap/pinch a bet on a face up game.
And the game typically moves a tad faster if it's face up for experienced players, and a LOT faster if there's new players at the table.
Also, there's less complaints about some noob hitting their hard 19/20 by mistake (which generally gets resolved in the player's favor at least the first time)
Quote: JohnnyQIf someone wants to learn about blackjack or gambling in general, today there are plenty of resources available. WoO being a prime example. I also think the American Casino Guide has some good plain talk explanations. ACG is available at my local library.
But some people don't want to be bothered with that. That is their choice, of course.
Some people like to play slots. I like to play Video Poker. I do believe that the high house advantage games help support the availability of the lower house advantage games, promotions, etc.
ps:
In my youth, I liked the Strat because it had a handful of ~100% VP games, and the rooms were inexpensive.
Well, learning is old-fashioned. The new way is do what someone else says to do (social-networking at its heart). keep the dumb being dumb, and always complain about the truth, "Its not right for ME". And you wonder why people are dumb... they learn from knowledge-gate-keepers. Gossip is a terrible education sez I.
