The guy lost 100k

I always make of point of at least a few minutes of crapless craps at the Strat when in Vegas. I got there at 9 pm. The guy next to me lost 29k in markers in one hour. I left at 10 pm. We came back for breakfast and the rides at 8 am. The guy was still there. I asked the dealer and he said he was up to 100k in markers and was just refused another marker. Wow.

The most interesting thing is that you were at the Stratosphere and the guy was in for $100,000. I know that the Stratosphere has 10x odds, but what is the guy doing playing crapless craps?

I do know that he would be treated like royalty at the Stratosphere for that kind of action. Heck, when I played there, I had a $25,000 line of credit and I was given the keys to the property.

It was an interesting first hour. I was also playing the don't but quit after losing 5 $10 bets. The guy would not roll the dice. He would front pass bets for people standing around the table. I thought the same thing about him playing that much at the Strat, but I think it goes back to a big fish in a small pond theory. That much money I would have been at Ceasers at least on the main strip. He was treated like royalty. At 29k in markers he started getting nasty to the dealers and boss's and they fast paced the dealers and pit boss rotation. Also more managers showed up. I only saw the 29k. The dealer told me the other 70k, but they also followed it up with they see it all the time at the tables. I was amazed.

Maybe he likes crapless craps, which as far as I know they have only at the Startosphere.

Quote: likeplayingcrapsandbj

It was an interesting first hour. I was also playing the don't but quit after losing 5 $10 bets. The guy would not roll the dice.

I thought the crapless craps at the Strat did not have a don't side to bet. I was there last week and you could only bet the pass line. Had to move over to the regular tables to bet the dont pass. Were you playing at the regular craps tables and watching this guy? What other bets was he making other than pass line bets? I saw a guy buying the extreme outside for $1000 each and he got hammered!

Quote: Nareed

Maybe he likes crapless craps, which as far as I know they have only at the Startosphere.

The Plaza and Vegas Club both downtown casinos have crapless craps and they are only open on the weekends. The dealers there do not like dealing crapless craps.

Quote: 7winner

I thought the crapless craps at the Strat did not have a don't side to bet.

That's my memory as well. I don't see why there couldn't be one, if they wanted to put it on the layout. The odds are worse, but I must say, when the table gets hot, crapless is a fun place to be...

Quote: waltomeal

That's my memory as well. I don't see why there couldn't be one, if they wanted to put it on the layout. The odds are worse, but I must say, when the table gets hot, crapless is a fun place to be...

You are so right about when the table gets hot. You really need a nice size bankroll to play crapless craps. I know you can still make Lay bets at crapless and some players do just that against the 2 and 12!

Quote: 7winner

The Plaza and Vegas Club both downtown casinos have crapless craps and they are only open on the weekends. The dealers there do not like dealing crapless craps.

I stand corrected.

Still, I did visit Vegas Club las trip adn even got a player card, but I dind't stay to play. I can't say why not, the place simply felt odd. I dind't go to the Plaza at all, but of course I saw it (it is rather prominent at the end of Fremont St.)

Anyway, point is this guy may like crapless and also prefer a place like the Startosphere (I rather like it myself) over the Plaza or LV Club. Some people simply won't visit Downtown at all.

I understand all the hate for crapless craps, the house edge is increased. However, I don’t place pass line bets or come bets (I play the short game and like to turn off my bets). I think playing pass line + odds on a 5x table is not worth it because you are giving away your money to the casino (it’s a contract bet).

For example say it’s a $5 table, point is 4 or 10. If you take 5x odds you would be paid $55 (50 odds + $5 pass line) for the $30 bet. If you just took the $30 and placed the 4 or 10 you would win $60-$1 commission.

If point is 5 or 9 you win $42 for your $25+$5 bet which is the same payout as putting $30 on the 5 or 9. The 6 or 8 would give you a $35 win for a $25+$5 bet which is the same as putting $30 on the 6 or 8. So you are giving up the flexibility to pull down or turn off with no additional payoff and all you are gaining is a slight edge on the come out.

Unless the odds are allowed at more than 5x it doesn’t make sense to bet passline unless you are rolling.

Sorry about the little rant. Just frustrates me to see the wall of chips at the end of the table when I’m rolling.

Back to crapless craps. I am going to go to Vegas tomorrow for a family vacation. I was thinking of betting $100 across ($10 on each number) and I usually pull down after 3-4 score hits or regress. With a normal table the 2,3,11,12 are dead numbers to me, but with crapless those will be score hits for me! And with the heavier payout on the extreme numbers it will allow me to press up the traditional numbers a lot quicker and be in and out of the game faster.

So with the way I play, I think that the crapless craps table will be better for me, however it will be a $100 investment instead of $64.

Quote: Chigu

For example say it’s a $5 table, point is 4 or 10. If you take 5x odds you would be paid $55 (50 odds + $5 pass line) for the $30 bet. If you just took the $30 and placed the 4 or 10 you would win $60-$1 commission.

If point is 5 or 9 you win $42 for your $25+$5 bet which is the same payout as putting $30 on the 5 or 9. The 6 or 8 would give you a $35 win for a $25+$5 bet which is the same as putting $30 on the 6 or 8.

This kind of analysis is flawed because you are not working with probabilities. If you are only looking at the payoffs, without weighing them, then the best bet is on the 12, end of discussion. If Nathan weighs in here she will agree with that thinking - I hope that gives you pause.

Quote:

So you are giving up the flexibility to pull down or turn off with no additional payoff and all you are gaining is a slight edge on the come out.

the contract part of the bet is only the $5, the odds portion can be taken down .

Quote: odiousgambit

This kind of analysis is flawed because you are not working with probabilities. If you are only looking at the payoffs, without weighing them, then the best bet is on the 12, end of discussion. If Nathan weighs in here she will agree with that thinking - I hope that gives you pause.

the contract part of the bet is only the $5, the odds portion can be taken down .

I don’t get it? Instead of betting 5 on pass line wait until the point is established and then bet the whole $30 that you would have bet on that actual point number. That way the payout is the same or greater and you can pull it all down (including the $5 you would lose on the passline eventually.

Quote: Chigu

[snip] That way the payout is the same or greater

you are repeating the error of only looking at the payout. You may continue with that argument if you like, but that would be the end of my participation.

You're forgetting to take into account the advantage on the pass/come of natural winners (7/11). That is not a small advantage; it is huge.

6/8 Place bets and 4/10 buys with vig on win only are good bets. You'll be playing "tough craps" if those are the only bets you make (and odds as well of course).

What I don't understand is not why he lost that money; I've seen people lose that much before.

I don't understand is why someone with a six figure bankroll would be down at that rat hole in the first place.

What I don't get is why a dealer would tell another player what another person has been drawing in markers. I'd be pissed if someone told a table full of strangers my business.

Quote: teddys

You're forgetting to take into account the advantage on the pass/come of natural winners (7/11). That is not a small advantage; it is huge.

6/8 Place bets and 4/10 buys with vig on win only are good bets. You'll be playing "tough craps" if those are the only bets you make (and odds as well of course).

No clue, but good to see you posting.

You should probably check out the “Living in a hotel” thread. Advice few can give.

How Does Crapless Craps Differ from the Traditional Craps? | Las Vegas Advisor
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/question/crapless-craps/

When I used to play a crapless craps machine last century I'd just bet the 6 or the 8 Place Bet. If I had to shoot, I'd play the PL. This is such a crippled game. I liked that I could bet any amount on the PB 6/8, not just increments of 6 credits. Some games would keep track of the credits down to the 1/100th.

Live Craps Game #27 - CRAPLESS CRAPS! - New York-New York, Las Vegas, NV - Inside the Casino - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNUz7Ny9_84

Avoid Crapless Craps like the plague
https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2015/10/21/mark-pilarski-casinos-craps/74026002/

Quote: Lovecomps

What I don't understand is not why he lost that money; I've seen people lose that much before.

I don't understand is why someone with a six figure bankroll would be down at that rat hole in the first place.

Judging by the description of his play, maybe that was the last casino in town that would take his action.