Are Wild Wild West and Eureka casinos?

The most popular part of my site is the list of Vegas casinos.

Up until now, my criteria has been that to be listed, a casino must have a Vegas postal address (not Henderson), and *one* of the following:

(1) Have table games
(2) Be on the Strip

I recently added a third option, so that I could count Tuscany (off-strip) as a casino, even though it recently removed its table games:

(3) Have at least 50k sf of gaming area.

The above criteria would exclude tiny-ass slot parlors like Eureka (4000sf, 264 machines) and Wild Wild West (11,250sf, 165 machines). (Stats from Casino City.)

But, maybe the public considers these establishments casinos. That's what this poll aims to find out.

For the purposes of listing all the casinos in Vegas, and coming up with a count of how many there are, should Eureka and Wild Wild West count as casinos or not?

There is no prize for voting in this poll, unlike the previous poll.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

There is no prize for voting in this poll, unlike the previous poll.

In case you change your mind on that, I don't know because I have never been to either.

But, based on that, NO NO NO !

Your website is mainly for tourists, yes ? In that case, no one gives a crapola about Eureka and Wild Wild West.

Suggestion: Post measley payback percentages for STRIP slot machines by denom.

"Constructively",

JohnnyQ

Why would you think I don't post payback percentages? Here ya go.

While my main target audience is tourists, I aim for accuracy. Also, the site is sometimes cited by journalists and Wikipedia, so that's extra reason for me to get my facts (or opinions) right.

Sir, I apologize profusely. 92.5 % on the Strip for a $ 1 denom slot machine. That is DISMAL !!!

ACCURACY and KNOWLEDGE are good things, methinks.

Thanks for having that info handy.

And re:

Harrah's has (or had) slots labeled "up to 98%", which is so vague as to be meaningless; that means that one of the machines pays 98%, they're not telling you which one, and the others are all crap.

Let's go with HAD !

As in "Harrah's is (or was) a premier property on the Strip".

I'd absolutely call Wild West a casino. Eureka, I'm not sure about it. I don't know another place that big in Vegas that's only slots that isn't an annex.

I suggest a modifier, like "Slot Casino", "Slot-only Casino", a separate heading, or an asterisk*.
If you want to wander into cute portmanteau, "Machino". Don't do that.

"Slot parlor" is right up to around 100 machines, if gambling is the core business. "Video Poker Lounge" if the primary focus is VP instead of reels/lines.

It's not Montana, where "Casino" means "Bar with 20 machines".

My opinion still isn't worth a hill of beans.

*Maybe the modifier should go the other way; "Full Casino" for offering more than slots. Sad, but it's coming.

Just ask NGC!

I already did add a section for slots-only establishments without table games, that I'm not already counting as casinos.

Slots-only, counted as casinos:

* Casino Royale (on the Strip)
* Slots-A-Fun (on the Strip)
* Tuscany (large gaming area)

Slots-only, not counted as casinos (not on the Strip, small):

* Dotty's
* Eureka
* Longhorn
* Wild Wild West
* Wildfire

I was not aware of that Wild Wild West removed their table games. Is that permanent, or a temporary Covid thing?

Dotty’s and other bar casinos do not qualify simply because they have the 15 slot limit. I would never count them as a casino.

As you may be aware, years ago, I created a couple of maps for the Wizard sites. At the time, Mike’s selection criteria was that it a) have at least one table game, and b) a hotel. At the time, the Ellis Island hotel was actually a separate entity but Mike allowed it as an exception.

Although the maps are no longer on the wizard sites, I’ve been keeping them up-to-date and added a couple of non-casino points of interest. You could find links to them, and the two table games I invented, on my website: http://www.davemillergaming.com/

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I was not aware of that Wild Wild West removed their table games. Is that permanent, or a temporary Covid thing?

Dotty’s and other bar casinos do not qualify simply because they have the 15 slot limit. I would never count them as a casino.

As you may be aware, years ago, I created a couple of maps for the Wizard sites. At the time, Mike’s selection criteria was that it a) have at least one table game, and b) a hotel. At the time, the Ellis Island hotel was actually a separate entity but Mike allowed it as an exception.

Although the maps are no longer on the wizard sites, I’ve been keeping them up-to-date and added a couple of non-casino points of interest. You could find links to them, and the two table games I invented, on my website: http://www.davemillergaming.com/

Yes, those maps are terrific! I used them when I went out there.

Just my opinion but lumping Wild West and Eureka in with places with less than fifteen machines doesn't do them justice

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I was not aware of that Wild Wild West removed their table games. Is that permanent, or a temporary Covid thing?

You know, I do track this kind of stuff: Casino Timeline.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

As you may be aware, years ago, I created a couple of maps for the Wizard sites.

Yes, I heaped praise on them on my Maps page. And now that I know that you keep them updated on your own site, I switched the link from WoV to DMG.

Also, if anyone hasn't seen it, a cool feature of my own map is that you can point to any casino and it tells you what casino it *used* to be.

I pulled square footage and # of machines data from the Nevada Gaming Commission.

For 8 locations, there were 1-2 machines per 100sf, except for Eureka, there were 18(!) machines per 100sf. (721 machines, 4000sf) What gives?

FWIW, Casino City says Eureka has only 264 games, but of course they don't cite their source, and I imagine that they generally use NGC data. However, that would still be 6.6 games per 100sf, way more than the competitors.

BTW, note that there are several Dotty's locations with unrestricted licenses, which means that they can have more than 15 machines. The largest is #111, which has 226 machines, making it larger than Longhorn, Wild Wild West, and all Wildfire locations.

I'd guess that most of those locations are bars that have games, but also have seating for food. A place like Timbers only has games at the bar but the dining room takes up more room. Eureka has a fairly large bar with machines at some seats, but then has a decent sized casino floor.
I'd forgotten about the Wildfires, and then you have Barleys, which has a few hundred machines as well.

I'm drawing the line at Las Vegas postal addresses, so I wouldn't list Barley's, which is in Henderson.

There are dozens of casinos in Henderson, and I might start a list of Henderson casinos some day, but at the moment other items are a bigger priority.

BTW, I left a message with Eureka asking how many machines they have, since as I posted above, the numbers reported by NGC don't add up.

Understood.
Perhaps a new category- mega slot parlor or something could be established to differentiate between places with 15 machines and ones with hundreds.

I'm not listing places with only ~15 machines, that would be a waste. That would include so many convenience and grocery stores.

I would include them.

Here is just an idea. The Gaming Control Board has a list of all places with a "non-restricted" license. To qualify, a property must have 16 or more machines. Here is the list of such places in Vegas:

ALAMO CASINO - LAS VEGAS TA
ALBERTSON'S #6046
ARIA RESORT & CASINO
ARIZONA CHARLIE'S BOULDER
ARIZONA CHARLIE'S DECATUR
AZTEC GOLD INN & CASINO
BALLY'S LAS VEGAS
BELLAGIO
BINION'S GAMBLING HALL & HOTEL
BONANZA LOUNGE
BOULDER STATION HOTEL & CASINO
CAESARS PALACE
CALIFORNIA HOTEL AND CASINO
CARDENAS MARKETS
CASINO ROYALE
CHARLIE'S BAR DOWN UNDER
CHARLIE'S LAKESIDE CASINO
CIRCA RESORT & CASINO
CIRCUS CIRCUS HOTEL AND CASINO
COSMOPOLITAN OF LAS VEGAS, THE
CROMWELL, THE
D, THE
DOTTY'S #107
DOTTY'S #108
DOTTY'S #15
DOTTY'S #151
DOTTY'S #32
DOTTY'S #6
DOTTY'S #62
DOTTY'S #72
DOTTY'S #77
DOTTY'S #78
DOTTY'S #83
DOTTY'S CASINO #9
DOWNTOWN GRAND
DRAFT HOUSE BARN & CASINO
EASTSIDE CANNERY CASINO & HOTEL
EL CORTEZ
ELLIS ISLAND CASINO
EUREKA CASINO
EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO
FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS
FOUR QUEENS HOTEL & CASINO
FREMONT HOTEL AND CASINO
GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO
GOLD SPIKE HOTEL AND CASINO
GOLDEN GATE HOTEL & CASINO
GOLDEN NUGGET
HARD ROCK CASINO
HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS
JACKPOT JOANIES
JACKPOT JOANIE'S
JACKPOT JOANIE'S CASINO
LINQ HOTEL AND CASINO, THE
LONGHORN CASINO
LUCKY'S GAMING & SPIRITS CASINO
LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO
MAD MATTY'S BAR & GRILLE
MAIN STREET STATION HOTEL, CASINO AND BREWERY
MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO
MARDI GRAS INN
MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO
MICHAEL J. GAUGHAN AIRPORT SLOT CONCESSION
MIRAGE, THE
MOHEGAN SUN CASINO LAS VEGAS
MOLLY'S CASINO
MOLLY'S CASINO
NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO
ORLEANS HOTEL AND CASINO
OYO HOTEL & CASINO LAS VEGAS
PALACE STATION HOTEL & CASINO
PALMS CASINO RESORT
PARIS LAS VEGAS
PARK MGM
PEPPERMILL COFFEE SHOP AND LOUNGE
PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
PLAZA HOTEL AND CASINO
POINTS CASINO #211
PT'S GOLD
PT'S PLACE
PT'S PLACE
PT'S PLACE
RAMPART CASINO AT THE RESORT AT SUMMERLIN
RED ROCK CASINO RESORT SPA
RESORTS WORLD LAS VEGAS
RIO ALL-SUITE HOTEL & CASINO
SAHARA LAS VEGAS
SAM'S TOWN HOTEL & GAMBLING HALL
SANTA FE STATION HOTEL & CASINO
SILVER SEVENS HOTEL & CASINO
SILVERTON CASINO LODGE LAS VEGAS
SKINNY DUGAN'S
SMITH'S FOOD & DRUG CENTER #370
SOUTH POINT HOTEL AND CASINO
STAGE DOOR CASINO
STRAT, HOTEL, CASINO & SKYPOD, THE
SUNCOAST HOTEL AND CASINO
TREASURE ISLAND
TROPICANA LAS VEGAS
TUSCANY LAS VEGAS
VENETIAN RESORT HOTEL CASINO/PALAZZO RESORT HOTEL CASINO
VILLAGE PUB & CASINO-SUMMERLIN
WESTGATE LAS VEGAS RESORT & CASINO
WILD WILD WEST GAMBLING HALL & HOTEL
WILDFIRE CASINO
WILDFIRE VALLEY VIEW
WYNN LAS VEGAS

If it were up to me, I would exclude anything from the list that is basically a bar with slot machines as well as Dotty's (an argument could be made whether they even are a bar) and leave the rest in. I'm sure me and many of the locals on the forum could advise on what counts as a glorified bar.

Quote: Wizard

I would include them.

If by "them" you mean non-casinos (≤15 machines), then be my guest on writing them up if you think it's so easy. This would have to qualify as one of the absolute worst uses of my limited time.

Quote: Wizard

Here is just an idea. The Gaming Control Board has a list of all places with a "non-restricted" license.

Yeah, and if you'd ever deign to take a cursory look at my work, you'd know that I know all about this. I posted above about how I pulled data from NGC (along with a link), and my List of Casinos page lists several of the non-restricted licensees with, again, a link to NGC.

Quote: Wizard

If it were up to me, I would exclude anything from the list that is basically a bar with slot machines as well as Dotty's (an argument could be made whether they even are a bar) and leave the rest in.

As I posted earlier, the largest Dotty's is 226 machines, which is larger than Longhorn and Wild Wild West, so your suggestion that I exclude them is curious for someone who wants me to run down all the ≤15 establishments.

Which Dotty's is bigger than the Longhorn? It looks like Dottys #11 is in Reno, although there is also a Dotty's 11 in Oregon.

Quote: billryan

Which Dotty's is bigger than the Longhorn? It looks like Dottys #11 is in Reno, although there is also a Dotty's 11 in Oregon.

My original post had a typo (now corrected) but the correct information is, of course, on my List of Vegas Casinos, which no forum member will ever look at.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

If by "them" you mean non-casinos (≤15 machines), then be my guest on writing them up if you think it's so easy. This would have to qualify as one of the absolute worst uses of my limited time.

That's not what I meant. I meant non-restricted casinos with MORE than 15 machines.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

My original post had a typo (now corrected) but the correct information is, of course, on my List of Vegas Casinos, which no forum member will ever look at.

Never assume.

I was on there earlier today, checking it out as well as a lot of stuff on your site. It looks good.

Frankly, although I know that you were somehow involved with the Wizard sites way back when (and maybe still?), I didn’t know you had a new site until today. For some reason, I thought you were involved with cheapovegas.com

Quote: Wizard

That's not what I meant. I meant non-restricted casinos with MORE than 15 machines.

The post directly above the one you replied to said, in its entirety, "I'm not listing places with only ~15 machines, that would be a waste."

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Frankly, although I know that you were somehow involved with the Wizard sites way back when (and maybe still?), I didn’t know you had a new site until today. For some reason, I thought you were involved with cheapovegas.com

Thanks for the kind words about my site.

(1) I haven't worked on WoO since circa 2010.

(2) My site isn't "new", it's over 20 years old (as listed on the About page), which is ancient in Internet terms.

(3) I never had any relation to Cheapo Vegas (though I'm flattered that you associated me with it, at least the original version). However, CV was the inspiration for my site (as explained on the About page). After the new owner bought Cheapo Vegas, he wanted me to publish a guest article on Easy Vegas. I would have jumped at the chance to publish an article by either of the original authors, Matt or "Stinky", but I declined, because the new owner had destroyed everything great about CV and his article would have been nothing special. So I've still never published anyone else's stuff on my site, and in fact, under the "Update" line in my articles, it says that all articles are by me. I didn't want to have a byline on 100% of the articles, since seeing a byline implies that there are other authors.

On the other hand, I am (or at least was) the only guest author on WoO, for my now nearly 20-year-old article on Flip It, which I subsequently rewrote for my own site.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

My original post had a typo (now corrected) but the correct information is, of course, on my List of Vegas Casinos, which no forum member will ever look at.

Dotty's 111 is in North Las Vegas. You don't include Henderson casinos because they aren't in "Las Vegas" but include the ones in North Las Vegas? North Las Vegas is just as much a separate municipality as Henderson and geographically is more distant. Barleys is three blocks from the Las Vegas city border. Luckys(Dotty's 111) is many miles from the city limits.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

On the other hand, I am (or at least was) the only guest author on WoO, for my now nearly 20-year-old article on Flip It, ...

To the best of my memory, you still hold that distinction.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I'm not listing places with only ~15 machines, that would be a waste. That would include so many convenience and grocery stores.

Very few convenience stores as most are only allowed 7 machines.

wouldnt what determines whether its a real casino or not, not have anything to do whether or not they had LIVE DEALERS dealing table games, but whether they had virtual stadium type table games or not? a casino can be all slots, and still have table games.

for example wild west has table games (virtual) while Eureka does not. so one is a casino and one is just a bar with slots.

Quote: sevencard2003

wouldnt what determines whether its a real casino or not, not have anything to do whether or not they had LIVE DEALERS dealing table games, but whether they had virtual stadium type table games or not? a casino can be all slots, and still have table games.

for example wild west has table games (virtual) while Eureka does not. so one is a casino and one is just a bar with slots.

Places like Eureka and Barleys might be called a slot parlor with a bar but calling them a bar with slots is inaccurate.

Quote: billryan

Dotty's 111 is in North Las Vegas. You don't include Henderson casinos because they aren't in "Las Vegas" but include the ones in North Las Vegas?.... Barleys is three blocks from the Las Vegas city border. Luckys(Dotty's 111) is many miles from the city limits.

Well, this is embarrassing. I always thought North Las Vegas was just the northern part of Las Vegas, not a separate city. I live in what everyone here calls East Austin, but it's just the eastern part of Austin.

I'll remove Dotty's #111, and have a look at what other establishments I list which are on NLV and need to be removed.

I'll work on adding all establishments within LV with unrestricted licenses (>15 machines).

Okay, I've now listed every tiny-ass slots-only establishment with an unrestricted gaming license (>15 machines), and moved all the North Las Vegas establishments to a new section. Check out the new and improved List of Las Vegas Casinos. (There are 64, according to current criteria. There wasn't an outpouring of support for listing places like Eureka and Wild Wild West as casinos, so I'm not gonna, but they are listed in the new slots-only section.)

Wild Wild West is a casino. Haven't been in a while, but up to around 2014-15 (back when they did have tables), it was a pretty good destination to watch football. In the last discussion, you said about the "feel" that comes from table games. I definitely think that can also come from a crowded NFL Sunday.

Since we've been discussing whether table games make a casino a casino, Vital Vegas is reporting on the massive reduction in table games at Caesars properties.