bobbartop
bobbartop
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May 20th, 2016 at 10:04:46 PM permalink
Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why they wouldn't put out a progressive 6-spot with a fast meter. I remember a few years back I would never imagine myself playing video keno. But I discovered some off-brand games in California Indian casinos where there was positive EV on some relatively easy-to-hit keno situations. I hit my first one over $800 that figured in at about 1.5% to the good and I didn't have to think like in video poker, I just pressed a button, and I could see it could be like crack It was fun.

So when I went to Vegas I looked at a lot of 6-spot progressives in town. I found many in bars, some in casinos. A couple variations on the pay table, but the meters were all slow. Some ridiculously slow. I did find one in a major casino that pencilled in at almost 98%. But why not stick a 2% meter on it, there's plenty of room, and advertise it? If I had a gambling bar in Vegas, I'd put a progressive 6-spot on all 15 machines and have a scrolling or flashing marquee on the wall showing off the $3000 jackpot for six. I'd invite all professionals, roll out the red carpet for them.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
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May 20th, 2016 at 10:11:55 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

So maybe DTG has the loosest IGT Keno machines? ;)



Maybe, but that doesn't to seem to be what they are saying. I wonder what the RTP is on those old coin operated IGT dauber keno machines. They must be pretty good or else I can't figure out why anyone would bother playing them.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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May 20th, 2016 at 11:21:36 PM permalink
Quote: JIMMYFOCKER

How is Lola's for Video keno?

Interesting you should ask that. I think I know what you are getting at.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
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May 20th, 2016 at 11:47:42 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why they wouldn't put out a progressive 6-spot with a fast meter. I remember a few years back I would never imagine myself playing video keno. But I discovered some off-brand games in California Indian casinos where there was positive EV on some relatively easy-to-hit keno situations. I hit my first one over $800 that figured in at about 1.5% to the good and I didn't have to think like in video poker, I just pressed a button, and I could see it could be like crack It was fun.

So when I went to Vegas I looked at a lot of 6-spot progressives in town. I found many in bars, some in casinos. A couple variations on the pay table, but the meters were all slow. Some ridiculously slow. I did find one in a major casino that pencilled in at almost 98%. But why not stick a 2% meter on it, there's plenty of room, and advertise it? If I had a gambling bar in Vegas, I'd put a progressive 6-spot on all 15 machines and have a scrolling or flashing marquee on the wall showing off the $3000 jackpot for six. I'd invite all professionals, roll out the red carpet for them.



Set the paytable to be somewhere in the 90-95% range, then a 2-5% meter. I'd like that.

But chances are, pros would get on it and snap off the regulars. That's bad for the casino, because pros don't "spend" their money at the casino, while a regular gambler will (very likely, IMO) give that money back. At least, that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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May 21st, 2016 at 1:05:10 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Set the paytable to be somewhere in the 90-95% range, then a 2-5% meter. I'd like that.

But chances are, pros would get on it and snap off the regulars. That's bad for the casino, because pros don't "spend" their money at the casino, while a regular gambler will (very likely, IMO) give that money back. At least, that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.




I think the most common 6-spot pay table I have seen goes like 3-4-70-1600. And that's 92%, off the top of my head. Then there were a few I found in Vegas that went 3-4-75-1600. A little better. I've found some in California with 3-4-75-1660, I think. Anyway, at 92% that leaves a ton of room for the casino, it'd be like a video poker progressive with such a low base game, but a win-win for the casino and the APs with a fast meter. Instead, these fools have meters like 1/4 of a percent. It just ain't never going to get positive at that rate.

But I agree with you about the pros snapping off regulars, that's why casinos don't like teams. It's all idiotic, though. There ain't nothing like a super high progressive and a bunch of APs in a feeding frenzy, banging away, and with a strategy tweeked for the higher jackpot. The meter is churning so fast it's a blur, and the casino makes gobs of money, but they don't want that. So near sighted.

Great thing about a 6-spot is it's only like 7000 to 1, instead of 40,000 for a royal. I think it would be very popular.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
RS
RS
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May 21st, 2016 at 1:35:28 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I think the most common 6-spot pay table I have seen goes like 3-4-70-1600. And that's 92%, off the top of my head. Then there were a few I found in Vegas that went 3-4-75-1600. A little better. I've found some in California with 3-4-75-1660, I think. Anyway, at 92% that leaves a ton of room for the casino, it'd be like a video poker progressive with such a low base game, but a win-win for the casino and the APs with a fast meter. Instead, these fools have meters like 1/4 of a percent. It just ain't never going to get positive at that rate.

But I agree with you about the pros snapping off regulars, that's why casinos don't like teams. It's all idiotic, though. There ain't nothing like a super high progressive and a bunch of APs in a feeding frenzy, banging away, and with a strategy tweeked for the higher jackpot. The meter is churning so fast it's a blur, and the casino makes gobs of money, but they don't want that. So near sighted.

Great thing about a 6-spot is it's only like 7000 to 1, instead of 40,000 for a royal. I think it would be very popular.



If the game (keno) is +EV, the casino isn't making money anymore. If it's +EV for the pros, what makes you think the casino is making money (at that point)? Although, they've already made their money -- they make their money when the meter is between base (1600 or whatever base reset is) and until it gets to break-even. After the break-even point, they're just losing money. Fortunately for the casino, they've already made more money than they're going to lose.
JIMMYFOCKER
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May 21st, 2016 at 5:22:54 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why they wouldn't put out a progressive 6-spot with a fast meter. I remember a few years back I would never imagine myself playing video keno. But I discovered some off-brand games in California Indian casinos where there was positive EV on some relatively easy-to-hit keno situations. I hit my first one over $800 that figured in at about 1.5% to the good and I didn't have to think like in video poker, I just pressed a button, and I could see it could be like crack It was fun.

So when I went to Vegas I looked at a lot of 6-spot progressives in town. I found many in bars, some in casinos. A couple variations on the pay table, but the meters were all slow. Some ridiculously slow. I did find one in a major casino that pencilled in at almost 98%. But why not stick a 2% meter on it, there's plenty of room, and advertise it? If I had a gambling bar in Vegas, I'd put a progressive 6-spot on all 15 machines and have a scrolling or flashing marquee on the wall showing off the $3000 jackpot for six. I'd invite all professionals, roll out the red carpet for them.



It would be good if this would occur
Wizardofnothing
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May 21st, 2016 at 5:58:10 AM permalink
On the old lotto machines in Florida - the syndicates would come in when they got to xxx,xxxxx dollars and absolute crush the machines. Casinos still made money and never stopped it in fact they put in more machines
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Wizard
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May 21st, 2016 at 6:19:01 AM permalink
Quote: RS

If the game (keno) is +EV, the casino isn't making money anymore. If it's +EV for the pros, what makes you think the casino is making money (at that point)? Although, they've already made their money -- they make their money when the meter is between base (1600 or whatever base reset is) and until it gets to break-even. After the break-even point, they're just losing money. Fortunately for the casino, they've already made more money than they're going to lose.



It depends how you look at it. From that perspective, you would be right.

However, I think the way most professional land casinos view it, correctly, is that the money that goes to the meter is not going to the casino but they are just holding it until somebody wins. For example, a 95% base game with a 2% meter rise would just be a 97% game to the casino. When I design progressive slots, I certainly count the meter rise as part of the return to the player. So, if this hypothetical progressive slot got over 100% from the player's perspective, the casino would still see it making a 3% profit, because part of what puts it over 100% is not their money.

Nevertheless, I know many Internet casinos don't see it that way. When somebody hits a big progressive they sing the blues, like it is their money that is gone. I try to explain that they should hold that progressive money in a separate pot and not get emotionally attached to it, but I can only lead a horse to water.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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May 21st, 2016 at 7:04:19 AM permalink
Quote: RS

If the game (keno) is +EV, the casino isn't making money anymore. If it's +EV for the pros, what makes you think the casino is making money (at that point)? Although, they've already made their money -- they make their money when the meter is between base (1600 or whatever base reset is) and until it gets to break-even. After the break-even point, they're just losing money. Fortunately for the casino, they've already made more money than they're going to lose.



I know it was difficult for me to understand this with video poker when I first started. In fact, it's still a little confusing to me. The progressive is banked and will never go to the casino. A 7-5 Bonus Poker progressive at 98% with perfect play will continue to be a 99% game with a 1% meter, to the casino. As it builds, that jackpot makes it positive for the player but it's still a 99% game for the house. Not only that, but when it gets high enough, knowledgeable players tweek their strategy to adjust for the higher payoff, like holding a 3-card royal flush and discarding a high pair. This increases the profit for the casino, because the tweeked strategy is a "mistake" for the base game. It's a weird concept.

Of course, there is no strategy to tweek with keno, you just press that button.

When I first discovered profitable keno I actually made more money that year from keno than video poker. And it was fun as heck. I like the idea of a 6-spot, you don't have to wait weeks, even months, for the "royal". I've seen so many big keno progressives where they progress the 10-spot or the 9 and 10 spot, and the jackpot is huge, but it's STILL negative. And it's essentially pie-in-the-sky. Booooring!

I don't know if this would ever catch on with casinos in Vegas, but to me it's a slam dunk for all the bars in town. Speaking of bars, I don't know how they do it with 7-5 Double Double. There's something wrong with a person who continuously goes to the neighborhood bar and blows his brains out on 7-5 Double Double, week after week. 7-5 Double Double is a disease. A bad disease.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.

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