How long before all "under $25" blackjack on the strip is paid at 6/5?
Poll
 | 11 votes (40.74%) | ||
| | 2 votes (7.4%) | ||
| | 10 votes (37.03%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.7%) | ||
| | 3 votes (11.11%) |
27 members have voted
November 27th, 2013 at 7:26:19 AM
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We love The Mirage, always have a great time there during our annual weekend in Vegas. We always spent some time there and stayed there the last two years. We love the staff, the vibe, the restaurants, but.... they have turned all the under $25 blackjack to 6/5.
The two pit bosses I talked to about it were sympathetic, but I got the same reality check from both, essentially, "People don't know, don't understand or don't care"
Fare thee well Mirage, it was nice knowing you!
The two pit bosses I talked to about it were sympathetic, but I got the same reality check from both, essentially, "People don't know, don't understand or don't care"
Fare thee well Mirage, it was nice knowing you!
Insurance is closed.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:20:38 AM
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Maybe it's wishful thinking but I'm down for never. I think there will always be at least one rebel in the bunch, even within the same chain.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
November 30th, 2013 at 8:38:17 AM
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Probably aa lot sooner than I think... 2 years. Skipped right over 7/5 (-0.46%).
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
November 30th, 2013 at 10:10:42 AM
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With the other normal rules for a low limit BJ game giving you a 0.62% HE, installing the 6/5 BJ rule makes the HE right around 1.99% I believe.
That should be a big boost to the carnival game pit as suddenly UTH, Crazy Four Poker & even TCP with it low 2%+ EOR become better options for the players and provide a much more volatile experience for the player. For most recreational gambler's, more volatility equals more fun. Why would you even play BJ if the game offered no significant math advantage over games that provide multi-unit pay out events and normally are easier to play optimal strategy.
My guess is that Bally's, Galaxy & DEQ are all rooting for 6/5 to become the standard in BJ sooner vs. later and the casino's better said aside some of those "extra winnings" off the 6/5 BJ tables to spend on leasing fees for additional proprietary games! They are going to need the seats!!
That should be a big boost to the carnival game pit as suddenly UTH, Crazy Four Poker & even TCP with it low 2%+ EOR become better options for the players and provide a much more volatile experience for the player. For most recreational gambler's, more volatility equals more fun. Why would you even play BJ if the game offered no significant math advantage over games that provide multi-unit pay out events and normally are easier to play optimal strategy.
My guess is that Bally's, Galaxy & DEQ are all rooting for 6/5 to become the standard in BJ sooner vs. later and the casino's better said aside some of those "extra winnings" off the 6/5 BJ tables to spend on leasing fees for additional proprietary games! They are going to need the seats!!
November 30th, 2013 at 10:24:24 AM
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Who didn't see this coming ? DUH Slots are king and BJ has become a loss leader when offered at 3/2 and under $25. Let alone at $5.
Think about it , say full table 7 players and 350 hands an hour even. One or 2 play basic close to 1%, 5 play at 1 and a half percent.
I mean hard to go above 1.5%. House would make a grand total of $23.75 per hour.
Yeah I know some bet more than $5, but still ? And with a flat rate of 2% on a 6/5 game still hard for accountants to approve any $5 game on weekends or week night NO WAY
And for the house to get that abysmal 00.62 edge, it's gotta be a 6 deck shoe and hit 17.
There is a reason Josie calles BJ GRIND.
" Why would you even play BJ if the game offered no significant math advantage over games that provide multi-unit pay out events and normally are easier to play optimal strategy."
Because they saw the movie Rainman or just like the game. Why the hell does anyone play craps ? Especially betting against the low edge by spreading out bets all over the place ?
Think about it , say full table 7 players and 350 hands an hour even. One or 2 play basic close to 1%, 5 play at 1 and a half percent.
I mean hard to go above 1.5%. House would make a grand total of $23.75 per hour.
Yeah I know some bet more than $5, but still ? And with a flat rate of 2% on a 6/5 game still hard for accountants to approve any $5 game on weekends or week night NO WAY
And for the house to get that abysmal 00.62 edge, it's gotta be a 6 deck shoe and hit 17.
There is a reason Josie calles BJ GRIND.
" Why would you even play BJ if the game offered no significant math advantage over games that provide multi-unit pay out events and normally are easier to play optimal strategy."
Because they saw the movie Rainman or just like the game. Why the hell does anyone play craps ? Especially betting against the low edge by spreading out bets all over the place ?
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 30th, 2013 at 12:13:53 PM
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Heck, with skilled players sitting their half the night some of them counting... it doesn't take the computers long to spit out spreadsheets of whats happening at the decent tables. Sure there are nearby casinos but eventually they will just put up a large sign Now offering 6:5 and go with the flow.
It will take some time but it will happen.
Its getting crowded on the Strip and pedestrian traffic crawls between posers and beggars... time for tightening up all "leaks".
It will take some time but it will happen.
Its getting crowded on the Strip and pedestrian traffic crawls between posers and beggars... time for tightening up all "leaks".
November 30th, 2013 at 1:43:03 PM
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Quote: BuzzardWhy the hell does anyone play craps ? Especially betting against the low edge by spreading out bets all over the place ?
Craps has way more juice and action than BJ....with odds bets, prop bets, every roll you can light up another number.....I bet Josie has never said "Craps is a grind" :-).
Of course there are all kinds of other reasons craps is losing its luster, but it isn't because players standing around the table think its a grind!
And BJ is a grind, but at 0.62% or less, it may be worth it for some.....at 1.99% it isn't worth it for anyone when other options with more action are available.
November 30th, 2013 at 2:32:46 PM
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Quote: ParadigmCraps has way more juice and action than BJ....with odds bets, prop bets, every roll you can light up another number.....I bet Josie has never said "Craps is a grind" :-).
Of course there are all kinds of other reasons craps is losing its luster, but it isn't because players standing around the table think its a grind!
And BJ is a grind, but at 0.62% or less, it may be worth it for some.....at 1.99% it isn't worth it for anyone when other options with more action are available.
People don't care because 6 is more than 3 and they don't understand fractions or ratios any more. They don't know what they're giving up, and don't care to find out. They just know that they want to keep their hand below 21, to which they have to open their zipper to count. I voted end of 2014: I can definitely see, once 6/5 gets established, a wave of advertising "7/5 BJ HERE!" coming, like it's a huge improvement on other places. Because 7 is more than 6, you see.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 30th, 2013 at 3:33:48 PM
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You left an option off of the poll:
"They still have under $25 blackjack on The Strip?"
"They still have under $25 blackjack on The Strip?"
November 30th, 2013 at 3:36:25 PM
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Quote: joenunzThe two pit bosses I talked to about it were sympathetic, but I got the same reality check from both, essentially, "People don't know, don't understand or don't care"
Or option #4: they think that their counting ability can beat a 6/5 game.
November 30th, 2013 at 6:23:06 PM
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Sure it is gone, but just remember how packed the BJ Tables were at O'Sheas and they offered nothing but 6/5. The tourists just dont care so it will be here sooner than later.
December 4th, 2013 at 7:53:23 AM
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NYNY and The Mirage both destroyed the vast majority of their low limit BJ games.
However, both casinos still have at least one low limit game with the standard "liberal" MGM rules.
At the Mirage, the table at the very end of the row across from the high limit slots next to the BJ Switch and Free Bet BJ tables hasn't been ruined yet. Saturday evening I saw it was a $10 minimum and NO ONE was playing at it, yet the 6-5 tables in the BJ pit were all packed.
At NYNY, their 21+3 table is still 3-2 with a six deck shoe. And there is a CSM table that plays 3-2. You just have to know where to look.
I voted for "never." I can't see Aria or Bellagio ever stooping this low.
However, both casinos still have at least one low limit game with the standard "liberal" MGM rules.
At the Mirage, the table at the very end of the row across from the high limit slots next to the BJ Switch and Free Bet BJ tables hasn't been ruined yet. Saturday evening I saw it was a $10 minimum and NO ONE was playing at it, yet the 6-5 tables in the BJ pit were all packed.
At NYNY, their 21+3 table is still 3-2 with a six deck shoe. And there is a CSM table that plays 3-2. You just have to know where to look.
I voted for "never." I can't see Aria or Bellagio ever stooping this low.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
December 4th, 2013 at 10:16:48 AM
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"I voted for "never." I can't see Aria or Bellagio ever stooping this low. "
Sad to say, it is not a question of "if" but "when".
Remember all the3 columns about avoiding 6/5 BJ when it first came out ? That worked, didn't it !
All about the bottom line. Despite rumors to the contrary, casinos first priority is making a profit. ALWAYS !
Sad to say, it is not a question of "if" but "when".
Remember all the3 columns about avoiding 6/5 BJ when it first came out ? That worked, didn't it !
All about the bottom line. Despite rumors to the contrary, casinos first priority is making a profit. ALWAYS !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
December 4th, 2013 at 10:33:23 AM
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Quote: ams288I voted for "never." I can't see Aria or Bellagio ever stooping this low.
What's so "low" about it from the casino's point of view? For that matter, which PLAYERS think it's "low" other than the (rare) informed gambler?
I can absolutely see the Bellagio & Aria doing this.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 4th, 2013 at 10:54:42 AM
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Casinos made plenty of money with the 3/2 payout. I'm guessing there will always be holdouts that will resist the 6/5 pay. Sticking with the 3/2 pay will be used as a marketing tool.
Each day is better than the next
December 5th, 2013 at 10:12:19 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thWhat's so "low" about it from the casino's point of view? For that matter, which PLAYERS think it's "low" other than the (rare) informed gambler?
I can absolutely see the Bellagio & Aria doing this.
They both currently don't have one single 6-5 table in their entire casino. I can't see them ever having ONLY 6-5 tables for the under $25 players. They just seem higher class than that. They're not Casino Royale.
If you disagree, great. Go ahead and rub it in my face once they get rid of all the low limit 3-2 tables. I'm willing to bet that day is not going to come.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
December 5th, 2013 at 10:38:52 AM
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Quote: ams288They both currently don't have one single 6-5 table in their entire casino. I can't see them ever having ONLY 6-5 tables for the under $25 players. They just seem higher class than that. They're not Casino Royale.
If you disagree, great. Go ahead and rub it in my face once they get rid of all the low limit 3-2 tables. I'm willing to bet that day is not going to come.
No worries. I wouldn't rub your face in anything because I would love for you to be right!
But I still fail to see what "class" has to do with any of this. In fact, the "higher" class casinos usually have the worst gambling rules in town.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 6th, 2013 at 5:00:40 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thBut I still fail to see what "class" has to do with any of this. In fact, the "higher" class casinos usually have the worst gambling rules in town.
Aria/Bellagio are just in a higher class to me. And they are the two best casinos for BJ on the strip, rules-wise.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
December 6th, 2013 at 5:05:16 AM
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I thinks face down 6 deck shoe would follow the 6:5 rule.
Buffering...
December 6th, 2013 at 5:25:22 AM
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Quote: ams288Aria/Bellagio are just in a higher class to me. And they are the two best casinos for BJ on the strip, rules-wise.
I agree, they are. But I still fail to see how game rules have anything to do with "class". By your definition, Station Casinos are the classiest joints in town because they have some of the best rules.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 6th, 2013 at 9:52:06 AM
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Quote: Beethoven9thI agree, they are. But I still fail to see how game rules have anything to do with "class". By your definition, Station Casinos are the classiest joints in town because they have some of the best rules.
I never gave my definition of class (probably because I don't even have a proper definition of class, it's just a feeling/vibe you get from a place). I only said that Aria/Bellagio are in a higher class to me, and they have good rules. In this case, I am associating higher class with good rules, but that is not necessarily always the case. I get the vibe that they respect the gambler more than other casinos do. And I don't think they'd slap us in the face with 6/5, and certainly not 6/5 on ALL their tables.
This whole topic is kind of irrelevant anyway. Mirage and NYNY are undeniably to two worst offenders of gutting their blackjack selection in the recent months. Yet they still both have at least one or two tables of 3-2 $10 BJ. So how long before ALL "under $25" blackjack on the strip is paid at 6/5? A long long time.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
December 6th, 2013 at 10:14:54 AM
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I voted for "By the end of 2019", although it could be later depending on how long it takes for casinos to get away with it.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 7th, 2013 at 5:54:32 AM
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Quote: ams288I get the vibe that they respect the gambler more than other casinos do. And I don't think they'd slap us in the face with 6/5, and certainly not 6/5 on ALL their tables.
FYI, casinos (including the Bellagio and Aria) don't care about you, me, or any other gambler. They just want our money.
If the Bellagio and Aria have so much respect for gamblers, then how come they don't offer early surrender? How come they don't offer single zero roulette [for red chip players]? How come their comps royally suck for $10 players?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 7th, 2013 at 8:50:21 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
December 7th, 2013 at 8:55:41 AM
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Damn you, now I have to edit my post. ;)Quote: IbeatyouracesBellagio has single zero roulette. It's just not cheap to play.
LOL!
Fighting BS one post at a time!
December 7th, 2013 at 8:58:18 AM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
