Does Vegas have a Disney problem?

I have not been to Vegas in almost 20 years. From what I hear I have to wonder if I ever want to go again.

Everyone I hear comes back with the same stories. Lowest minimum on the strip is usually $25. 6:5 games (I refuse to call them Blackjack) and 000 Roulette all over the place. Large crowds and long lines, you waiting for your room not it for you. Meanwhile, the gambling podcasts say business is at record levels. (Same podcast laments the former.)

My take is that the market on the Strip has changed. It changed before. Pre-Wynn maybe you went once in a lifetime unless you lived in CA. Then it was the place DINK couples went often. Today it seems to be based on one of three draws, being come to see sports, conventions, and Asian travelers. And it now has a Disney problem of too many lower-end guests taking spots that higher spenders could take. So they keep squeezing on price. Yet record crowds still come so they keep squeezing.

Am I the only one feels this way?

Quote: AZDuffman

000 Roulette all over the place.
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I recently learned that triple 0 Roulette was pretty common in the US in the 1800s. The third zero was actually a picture of an eagle, though.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: AZDuffman

000 Roulette all over the place.
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I recently learned that triple 0 Roulette was pretty common in the US in the 1800s. The third zero was actually a picture of an eagle, though.
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I really blame state gaming boards. At some point they need to say, "Hey........"

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: AZDuffman

000 Roulette all over the place.
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I recently learned that triple 0 Roulette was pretty common in the US in the 1800s. The third zero was actually a picture of an eagle, though.
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I really blame state gaming boards. At some point they need to say, "Hey........"
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Why would they care if roulette has a 7.69% hold when they allow slot machines to have a 20% hold?

Quote: AZDuffman

I have not been to Vegas in almost 20 years. From what I hear I have to wonder if I ever want to go again.

Everyone I hear comes back with the same stories. Lowest minimum on the strip is usually $25. 6:5 games (I refuse to call them Blackjack) and 000 Roulette all over the place. Large crowds and long lines, you waiting for your room not it for you. Meanwhile, the gambling podcasts say business is at record levels. (Same podcast laments the former.)

My take is that the market on the Strip has changed. It changed before. Pre-Wynn maybe you went once in a lifetime unless you lived in CA. Then it was the place DINK couples went often. Today it seems to be based on one of three draws, being come to see sports, conventions, and Asian travelers. And it now has a Disney problem of too many lower-end guests taking spots that higher spenders could take. So they keep squeezing on price. Yet record crowds still come so they keep squeezing.

Am I the only one feels this way?
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Vegas obviously doesn’t have a ‘problem’ in the sense that they can charge more and yet still fill the place up. It may be a problem for ‘you’, but not Vegas.

Isn’t there a ‘Yogi-ism’ that says…. ‘Nobody goes there anymore because it is too crowded….’ I’ll be there next month….

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

I have not been to Vegas in almost 20 years. From what I hear I have to wonder if I ever want to go again.

Everyone I hear comes back with the same stories. Lowest minimum on the strip is usually $25. 6:5 games (I refuse to call them Blackjack) and 000 Roulette all over the place. Large crowds and long lines, you waiting for your room not it for you. Meanwhile, the gambling podcasts say business is at record levels. (Same podcast laments the former.)

My take is that the market on the Strip has changed. It changed before. Pre-Wynn maybe you went once in a lifetime unless you lived in CA. Then it was the place DINK couples went often. Today it seems to be based on one of three draws, being come to see sports, conventions, and Asian travelers. And it now has a Disney problem of too many lower-end guests taking spots that higher spenders could take. So they keep squeezing on price. Yet record crowds still come so they keep squeezing.

Am I the only one feels this way?
link to original post

Vegas obviously doesn’t have a ‘problem’ in the sense that they can charge more and yet still fill the place up. It may be a problem for ‘you’, but not Vegas.

Isn’t there a ‘Yogi-ism’ that says…. ‘Nobody goes there anymore because it is too crowded….’ I’ll be there next month….
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Yes, Vegas has been setting records every quarter since the pandemic.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

I have not been to Vegas in almost 20 years. From what I hear I have to wonder if I ever want to go again.

Everyone I hear comes back with the same stories. Lowest minimum on the strip is usually $25. 6:5 games (I refuse to call them Blackjack) and 000 Roulette all over the place. Large crowds and long lines, you waiting for your room not it for you. Meanwhile, the gambling podcasts say business is at record levels. (Same podcast laments the former.)

My take is that the market on the Strip has changed. It changed before. Pre-Wynn maybe you went once in a lifetime unless you lived in CA. Then it was the place DINK couples went often. Today it seems to be based on one of three draws, being come to see sports, conventions, and Asian travelers. And it now has a Disney problem of too many lower-end guests taking spots that higher spenders could take. So they keep squeezing on price. Yet record crowds still come so they keep squeezing.

Am I the only one feels this way?
link to original post

Vegas obviously doesn’t have a ‘problem’ in the sense that they can charge more and yet still fill the place up. It may be a problem for ‘you’, but not Vegas.

Isn’t there a ‘Yogi-ism’ that says…. ‘Nobody goes there anymore because it is too crowded….’ I’ll be there next month….
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In words fitting Yogi, it's not a problem until it is. Both Vegas and Disney are fascinating in that they keep upping the price yet more people keep coming. A problem kind of arises in that is a little like Buick and Oldsmobile in the 70s. Back then both sold every car they could make, but to the same old customers. 15 years later those people had bought their last car but the next generation moved to something else. Is Vegas driving the next generation of guests to something else?

Currently a problem for "me" as I hate Disney style crowds. I hate being nickled and dimed at every turn. Question is when does the normal person get as fed up as me and stop coming?

Last time I was in Vegas was 2014 and it was so awful I've never been back. I didn't need to go there's so many casinos in Michigan now. And since 2021 we've had online gambling so I'll never go to Vegas again. I went with my wife and she lost a ton of money so she never wants to go back either. I enjoyed Vegas in the '80s and 90s but in the 2000s not so much. Too crowded, and the crowds are dumb.

Doesn't Disney still sell multi-day ticket deals? You pay what you pay, Perhaps eating is nickel and diming. Or maybe they offer meal deals now too. I haven't been there in so long, I don't know what they do any longer. I can spend in one hour in Vegas what I spend in an entire Disney trip.

It sounds like their marketing is working perfectly. The folks they don't want think it is their idea not to go, as they break new records.

Quote: billryan

It sounds like their marketing is working perfectly. The folks they don't want think it is their idea not to go, as they break new records.
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Now that there's the cleverest disguise I've ever seen for the clown with his hand so tall saying 'You must be this tall to ride'.

I love going to Vegas. I play Pai Gow and I like $25 tables so I have no problem finding a table on the strip.

I don’t gamble a ton when I’m there. A couple hours a day. But there’s great restaurants, great pools, great entertainment. If I go with a group, we will bet and watch sports and relax.

It’s not for people who want to play $10 blackjack and eat cheaply. So I get people not liking it. But it fits perfectly for me and my vacation habits.

We went to Vegas a couple times a year or more not too long ago when you could play 100.7 percent Deuces Wild off the strip, and DIAMOND at Caesars got you access to a Diamond Lounge and 2 show tickets to one of their mid-tier shows each month.

And now we don't go as often or for as long. Some of our recent trips there were to take a flight from McCarran Harry Reid Intl to Europe ( we have family in the San Diego area ).

As you may have seen from my other posts, we think the Cruise Line perks are much better than Vegas. They are for us. "Your results may vary".

Until about 6 or 7 years ago, I went to Las Vegas 2 or 3 times a year, every year, for the previous 15 or 20 years. It was fun, affordable and exciting to go. Now it's none of those things. I can go to a casino in almost any State I go to, including my own State. It's not affordable anymore. There's not much fun about it anymore. I have no plans to go back even though I get free rooms at any Ceasars property or The Cosmopolitan.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Until about 6 or 7 years ago, I went to Las Vegas 2 or 3 times a year, every year, for the previous 15 or 20 years. It was fun, affordable and exciting to go. Now it's none of those things. I can go to a casino in almost any State I go to, including my own State. It's not affordable anymore. There's not much fun about it anymore. I have no plans to go back even though I get free rooms at any Ceasars property or The Cosmopolitan.


ZCore13
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That about covers it..

That is a sadly myopic view of Las Vegas, but no one is twisting anyone's nipples to go there. Vegas evolves. Dinosaurs don't. Don't be a dinosaur.

While serious gamblers are often finding better values at their local casinos, Vegas does have some benefits for mass affluent types. First, it’s a great location for disparate people to get together. Whether it is a family reunion, buddies from college for a bachelor/bachelorette party, intimate Vegas wedding, etc. there are nonstop flights from almost every major city in the country and quite a few minor ones. It has a large concentration of bands and shows that people want to see. Cirque du Soleil, for instance, comes to a second tier city every few years, but can be caught every day in Vegas.

in terms of quality restaurants (even though they may be overrated and a poor value), Vegas has all your brand name chefs and high end cuisines within a few mile radius, which perhaps only New York may rival. For young people with too much money to burn, the nightclubs are great in that they can lose inhibitions and have fun without someone back home seeing, or even recognizing someone working there as a person who knew them in high school or college.

Personally, I play video poker and California has many great casinos for that, but the big resorts there are self contained and have little in the way of tourist attractions. Of course, I can shoot dice in Vegas, I can’t do that in California (rolling dice to turn over a card doesn’t count). But LVCVA studies have shown that the percentage of a Vegas vacation going to gambling keeps dropping. There are a lot of people with too much money, especially young people living off inheritances or on tech/law/consulting salaries, that love to play hard with folks they know from other parts of the country and they keep the tourist casino/resorts rolling.

Quote: AZDuffman

Currently a problem for "me" as I hate Disney style crowds. I hate being nickled and dimed at every turn. Question is when does the normal person get as fed up as me and stop coming?

I am guessing that you never had small kids. I can't imagine how one could not take kids to Disney at least once. It is almost a right of passage. I haven't been to Disney in close to 30 years and I now live in Florida. The kids love Disney so parents budget and save to take their kids. Probably close to $1000 for a family to go.

One thing i really liked about Vegas. Something was always open day or night.

Quote: calwatch

While serious gamblers are often finding better values at their local casinos,
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Quote: Zcore13

I can go to a casino in almost any State I go to, including my own State.
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I always hear people say this, but every casino I've been to in a non-Vegas state sucks in comparison. I've been to Tunica a few times, and I've been to casinos in California, Indiana, Illinois, and Oklahoma. Vegas blows all of those places away by far. What states are you people visiting that has casinos on par with Vegas, let alone better? I'm just not seeing it...

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: calwatch

While serious gamblers are often finding better values at their local casinos,
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Quote: Zcore13

I can go to a casino in almost any State I go to, including my own State.
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I always hear people say this, but every casino I've been to in a non-Vegas state sucks in comparison. I've been to Tunica a few times, and I've been to casinos in California, Indiana, Illinois, and Oklahoma. Vegas blows all of those places away by far. What states are you people visiting that has casinos on par with Vegas, let alone better? I'm just not seeing it...
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If you are going just to gamble there is not much difference between Vegas casinos and other large casinos. Where Vegas excels is dining and entertainment.

Spend a few hours people-watching poolside in Vegas. Then repeat the experiment in Laughlin or Tunica.

You folks are all correct.. There is no reason to go to Vegas. Tell your friends.

Quote: DRich

Quote: AZDuffman

Currently a problem for "me" as I hate Disney style crowds. I hate being nickled and dimed at every turn. Question is when does the normal person get as fed up as me and stop coming?

I am guessing that you never had small kids. I can't imagine how one could not take kids to Disney at least once. It is almost a right of passage. I haven't been to Disney in close to 30 years and I now live in Florida. The kids love Disney so parents budget and save to take their kids. Probably close to $1000 for a family to go.
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Never wanted kids so, no. The thing is Disney is why I called it a Disney problem. I just heard about the Star Wars attraction. Now, it is rated as great. But the family has a choice of waiting almost half their day to enter or dropping a C-note and still waiting but for much less time. Disney keeps raising the price to lessen the crowds but they keep coming. I see some of those Disney how-to YT videos and see the wait times or all you have to do and give a "what are you people......on dope?" about the whole thing.

Let's just say there is a cottage industry based around avoiding lines at Disney, and those who know are not going to post it on youtube. Common sense and forethought will cut the wait time tremendously.

The longest I've ever waited in a line at Disney World since the '90s is about an hour. Usually the average is 15-30 minutes. When we did Galaxy's edge recently, we waited 45 minutes for one of the rides, and one was a literal walk-on, i.e., zero minutes.

If you know what you're doing, with even the littlest bit of planning you don't have to wait long at all. Now that they've done away with free fast passes, it's a little trickier, but still pretty easy. These people that go to Disney and complain they're waiting in lines for 2, 3, or 4 hours are going at peak times of the year, on peak days, and doing zero planning. Those wait times are far from average.

Even in the early days in Orlando, a new attraction could easily have an hour line. Or a popular one a long wait as well. And that's just the first one of the day.

It's probably easier with technology if you for some reason couldn't remember what lot you parked in, if you drove there. Each lot was a letter and each lot was about as many cars as a large casino, and they had most of the alphabet covered. You were in parking hell if for some reason you didn't know where you car was back then.

Never been west to Disney Land.

I don't know if they still do it but in the old days we would stay at one of the Disney hotels and they let you into the park an hour before the general public. You could get right on the attractions.

Quote: DRich

I don't know if they still do it but in the old days we would stay at one of the Disney hotels and they let you into the park an hour before the general public. You could get right on the attractions.
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They still do that. It rotates around, though.... different parks are open early on different days, and sometimes they're open later instead of earlier.

Quote: DRich

I don't know if they still do it but in the old days we would stay at one of the Disney hotels and they let you into the park an hour before the general public. You could get right on the attractions.
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The best AP move used to be bring a veteran in a wheelchair. Then a few disabled vets started renting themselves out as props and ruined it.

I now live in a world where waiting 15-45 minutes for something that takes 5 minutes is “not long at all.”

When I have to wait even 20 minutes for anything it will ruin my mood for hours. Probably a me problem….. I’ve walked out of doctors waiting rooms and switched doctors/medical centers over waiting for appointments 30-45 minutes after appointment time.

Quote: mcallister3200

I now live in a world where waiting 15-45 minutes for something that takes 5 minutes is “not long at all.”

When I have to wait even 20 minutes for anything it will ruin my mood for hours. Probably a me problem….. I’ve walked out of doctors waiting rooms and switched doctors/medical centers over waiting for appointments 30-45 minutes after appointment time.
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I agree, waiting is for peasants. Don't they know who I am?

Quote: mcallister3200

I now live in a world where waiting 15-45 minutes for something that takes 5 minutes is “not long at all.”

When I have to wait even 20 minutes for anything it will ruin my mood for hours. Probably a me problem….. I’ve walked out of doctors waiting rooms and switched doctors/medical centers over waiting for appointments 30-45 minutes after appointment time.
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EVERY business should offer a text message service. You would get a text message when you're appt is within a certain amount of time. At least ones that typically make you wait.

You shouldn't get stuck in a waiting room at a minimum.

Quote: DRich

Quote: mcallister3200

I now live in a world where waiting 15-45 minutes for something that takes 5 minutes is “not long at all.”

When I have to wait even 20 minutes for anything it will ruin my mood for hours. Probably a me problem….. I’ve walked out of doctors waiting rooms and switched doctors/medical centers over waiting for appointments 30-45 minutes after appointment time.
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I agree, waiting is for peasants. Don't they know who I am?
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I’m a peasant who wasn’t blessed with patience.

This is what I see in videos of crowds at Disney World, literally tons and tons of morbidly obese people. What has Disney got that the morbidly obese are fascinated with.

Quote: EvenBob

This is what I see in videos of crowds at Disney World, literally tons and tons of morbidly obese people. What has Disney got that the morbidly obese are fascinated with.

Front of line passes

Quote: DRich

Quote: mcallister3200

I now live in a world where waiting 15-45 minutes for something that takes 5 minutes is “not long at all.”

When I have to wait even 20 minutes for anything it will ruin my mood for hours. Probably a me problem….. I’ve walked out of doctors waiting rooms and switched doctors/medical centers over waiting for appointments 30-45 minutes after appointment time.
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I agree, waiting is for peasants. Don't they know who I am?
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You don't have people for that?

Quote: rxwine

EVERY business should offer a text message service. You would get a text message when you're appt is within a certain amount of time. At least ones that typically make you wait.

You shouldn't get stuck in a waiting room at a minimum.
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Actually, Disney has started doing exactly that. They have what they call a "virtual queue" system for some of the more popular rides. You still have to wait in line a few minutes to get on the ride, but it's better than waiting an hour or more.

Quote: billryan

Spend a few hours people-watching poolside in Vegas. Then repeat the experiment in Laughlin or Tunica.

You folks are all correct.. There is no reason to go to Vegas. Tell your friends.
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I suppose it is more fun looking at the mistresses and trophy wives of the wealthy than the Real Housewives of Council Bluffs.

Quote: Mental

Quote: billryan

Spend a few hours people-watching poolside in Vegas. Then repeat the experiment in Laughlin or Tunica.

You folks are all correct.. There is no reason to go to Vegas. Tell your friends.
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I suppose it is more fun looking at the mistresses and trophy wives of the wealthy than the Real Housewives of Council Bluffs.
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Off topic, but I guess most of you have not been to Council Bluffs. It is actually a nice city and beats living in that next door metropolis of Omaha.

I have been to Council Bluffs five times. I have seen the Missouri River in the parking garage of Harrahs. I have walked the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge before it was called that. The Omaha Zoo is quite nice and the downtown is quiet and walkable.

I flopped a flush on a 10-play video poker machine at the Horseshoe and discarded the lowest card. I drew a Royal on four of the ten lines.

I think Horseshoe is as attractive a casino as most in Las Vegas. The Harrahs boat was a rust bucket. The food is better in Vegas but a better value in Council Bluffs, IMO.

I will be in Vegas in December mostly to get to the Grand Canyon. Most of my Vegas trips have been to get there or Bryce and Zion.

Tunica isn't my favorite destination, but Biloxi has many properties that are better than a bunch of lesser properties on the strip. Is anyone waxing poetic about Harrahs LV?

Quote: Mental

Is anyone waxing poetic about Harrahs LV?
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I mean, they have/had one of the best Pai Gow Tile games in town. They also have/had $50 midi bacc on the main floor.

Haven't played there in a while so I don't know if either of those things are still there, but for a while it was a great place for Asian games players.

Quote: Mental

Tunica isn't my favorite destination, but Biloxi has many properties that are better than a bunch of lesser properties on the strip. Is anyone waxing poetic about Harrahs LV?
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I spent a lot of time in Tunica when they were building the casinos. We used to have to drive 20 minutes to get a sandwich for lunch and the closest place was a gas station out of the 1950's. Every night we would drive back in to Memphis for hotel rooms.

Quote: calwatch

While serious gamblers are often finding better values at their local casinos, Vegas does have some benefits for mass affluent types. First, it’s a great location for disparate people to get together. Whether it is a family reunion, buddies from college for a bachelor/bachelorette party, intimate Vegas wedding, etc. there are nonstop flights from almost every major city in the country and quite a few minor ones. It has a large concentration of bands and shows that people want to see. Cirque du Soleil, for instance, comes to a second tier city every few years, but can be caught every day in Vegas.

in terms of quality restaurants (even though they may be overrated and a poor value), Vegas has all your brand name chefs and high end cuisines within a few mile radius, which perhaps only New York may rival. For young people with too much money to burn, the nightclubs are great in that they can lose inhibitions and have fun without someone back home seeing, or even recognizing someone working there as a person who knew them in high school or college.

Personally, I play video poker and California has many great casinos for that, but the big resorts there are self contained and have little in the way of tourist attractions. Of course, I can shoot dice in Vegas, I can’t do that in California (rolling dice to turn over a card doesn’t count). But LVCVA studies have shown that the percentage of a Vegas vacation going to gambling keeps dropping. There are a lot of people with too much money, especially young people living off inheritances or on tech/law/consulting salaries, that love to play hard with folks they know from other parts of the country and they keep the tourist casino/resorts rolling.
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You make some valid points about the appeal of Las Vegas for various types of visitors, from family reunions to entertainment seekers and partygoers. The city's convenience, entertainment options, and dining variety certainly contribute to its popularity. While gambling remains a part of the Vegas experience, it's clear that the city offers much more than just casinos, attracting a diverse range of travelers.

I am so tired of seeing ChatGPT-style writing. I even got an email with a LLM version of my own online resume information, which not surprisingly had some errors.

Anyway, Vegas is my Disneyland. So many things to do and so many great places to eat. For gambling, I go off the strip. You don't have to go far — Ellis Island is just a couple blocks away!

They used to say San Francisco is a city-sized theme park, but I think Vegas has that title in my heart.

We were in Vegas last October, and again this June. I’m priced out of the tables at the nice places on The Strip. Last October I could find $25 UTH at Bellagio; in June, the choices were $50 or $100. Nope. On the other hand, $10 was readily available at NYNY and Luxor, and anywhere downtown.

The food is better than ever, and we enjoyed the spectacle of it all, but we’re getting older and the travel wears us down. I don’t think we’re going again any time soon.

Interesting video kind of on this thread subject. High minimums making empty tables.

So, watched a LV video on YT and it brought up a couple interesting things.

First, LV visitors are down like 5-6 months in a row. The national economy is not booming but neither is there a big recession happening. I have to wonder if people getting tired of all the nickel and dimming is causing this?

Second, several MGM properties are draining fountains and filling them in with mulch or other decoration. While the falling levels of Lake Mead is good reason, this......this is what dead malls do to save money.

Are there bigger problems in LV?

There's always been a looming threat of over-saturation of the gambling market. But it's probably multiple factors, not just one thing.

This is what I see: the management and labor problems that you find in a contracting industry, which land-based casinos certainly are. But there's an effect that occurs in all contracting industries: those people in management all have the feeling the company they are working for now is the last gaming company they will ever work for, most of them are right, as there aren't people building all these new casinos and looking to hire away other people's managers and executive with promotions, so the only way up is within their own organization, which leads to a lot of internal competition. Bluntly: they know the way up is to get the guy a level up from you fired, so everybody turns into a backstabber trying to make someone else look bad, and business and the company be damned. I see a lot of things going on that can be best interpreted as spite moves.

And that leads to the boringness and uniformity we see in the stores, especially on the Strip. Being everyone is in CYA mode, and it's hard to be targeted for doing what everyone else is doing, making all your games and the rest of your business the same as the place next door gives you cover. Everything you do, you're going to have people pointing their fingers at you and whispering how "it's all your fault." Even if you do something innovative and successful, the same people are going to be trying to claim credit or sabotage it if they can't. So people would rather just not make waves, not stand proud, keep your head down, let ChatGPT write your memos and put in enough time to get out of there with something.

On the labor side, the service and the quality of the dealers is as bad as anything I've ever seen. Dealers who no-speaka, dealers who take shots (either to feel like a big wheel, or out of the belief they will be rewarded by the company, or as part of an organized scam), dealers who are high, floor personnel who are high, and in a couple of cases I've seen (I know some people don't like this term but I am talking about the actual condition instead of using it as an insult) dealers who appeared to me that they have some degree of mental retardation. I saw one dealer, who didn't know what to do after she accidentally exposed her downcard at blackjack even with the floor standing there telling her what to do, start loudly squalling until she had to be sent away from the table and her shoe finished by a supervisor. Service is nasty and indifferent in many other areas too. Now this is in the places I spend most of my time in, which are the low-rent places because I have to dig deep and dirty to find the right games for me so those who do different things will experience it differently.

The entertainment and environment has gone from classic and timeless, to modern but dated. It's like some director of something researched what rich kids in L.A. were into 10 years ago and decided that would make them the new hip, the new happening place to be. That's just a guess- I see and hear what is going on and recognize little to none of it, so I'm not sure if that's what the hipsters are doing these days or not. But I am sure that what the Rat Pack was doing 60 years ago would still be enjoyed. Or what Motown was doing 50 years ago, or New Wave 40 years ago. Now it's all some DJ playing... what? The live bands they have playing on Fremont are enjoyable, but there used to be stuff like that going on all over town. I realize that with a lot of the contemporary music (so to speak) there's no such thing as a band playing it, it's all recorded in a studio with computers and nothing about it is really a musician performing, but why go along with that? Vegas is big enough to set its own trends, not follow them, but that's another example of no one wanting to take the risk of becoming a target.

Not really complaining, as this is my chosen lifestyle and I alone am responsible for making it work, so we evolve. (Monkeys know all about evolution!) And by remaining prepared to evolve, what Darwin does to them he can simultaneously do for me.

The new ID rules for flying, combined with current political conditions, are keeping many people close to home right now.