Shuttle; NO DRIVER

0.6 mile, three stop route at the end of Fremont Street East through the Innovation zone.

Eight passengers.

PIlot program. AAA sponsored.

self driving, I guess you mean. At first I thought you tried to take a ride but no driver ever showed up

Quote: odiousgambit

At first I thought you tried to take a ride but no driver ever showed up

That would be just my luck!
No, its an AAA sponsored demonstration project of a self-driving easy-on easy-off tourist oriented eight passenger shuttle. Very slow moving but far better than walking.

Quote: FleaStiff

No, its an AAA sponsored demonstration project of a self-driving easy-on easy-off tourist oriented eight passenger shuttle. Very slow moving but far better than walking.

Nice to see Alcoholics Anonymous sponsoring such a project.

Quote: gordonm888

Nice to see Alcoholics Anonymous sponsoring such a project.

Autonomous vehicles are going to be great for drunks, you just pile in the back seat and it drives you home while you sleep it off!

Nah, you just hop in back and ride to your morning bar and don't even need a home anymore.

AAA of course is American Automobile Association.

AA is Alcoholics Anonymous an organization much loved by drug pushers and often used as a sales tool.

Nah, you just hop in back and ride to your morning bar and don't even need a home anymore.

AAA of course is American Automobile Association.

AA is Alcoholics Anonymous an organization much loved by drug pushers and often used as a sales tool.

With autonomous vehicles, how long until I can live in an RV, have it drop me off at a casino, have it circle back to pick me up later and then do loops around the beltway while I catch some sleep.

http://news3lv.com/news/local/driverless-shuttle-crashes-on-first-day-of-service-in-downtown-las-vegas

Didn’t take long.

Classic !

"...in its first hour of service in downtown Las Vegas, the shuttle collided with a semi-truck.

A representative on behalf of AAA has stated on Twitter that the crash was caused by the truck backing into the shuttle at the time and was a result of human error, with the driver of the truck cited."

Quote: Boz

http://news3lv.com/news/local/driverless-shuttle-crashes-on-first-day-of-service-in-downtown-las-vegas

Didn’t take long.

Egads. Guess not.

Quote: KSNV

...in its first hour of service in downtown Las Vegas, the shuttle collided with a semi-truck. There has been no report of injuries at this time...

Obviously tourists. Locals would've instantly been all over the "injury" thing like green on felt.

Quote: KSNV

...three stops located on Fremont and Carson Streets between Las Vegas Boulevard and 8th Street...

For those not familiar with the numbering & naming geography, if Las Vegas Blvd was a numbered street through downtown like all the others running parallel to it, it would be 5th St. And they had it "shuttling" to 8th St (briefly - when not exchanging paint with large trucks). And those are short blocks on that side.

So, yeesh.

There are probably buffet lines about as long as that "shuttle" route. The trek from the MGM Grand parking garage into the casino might be longer than that, and from the Planet Ho garage into the casino would be a much longer stroll. Apparently this amounts to more of a novelty or amusement device than a way to go somewhere. When actually moving around chasing its tail in its little designated circle, assuming it attempts to do so again.

You sure about that? The El Cortez is on 6th, so the shuttle goes from LV Blvd, past the old Western hotel. not a great distance but a decent walk in the desert heat.

Quote: DrawingDead

. Apparently this amounts to more of a novelty or amusement device than a way to go somewhere. When actually moving around chasing its tail in its little designated circle, assuming it attempts to do so again.

Yes, you are quite correct its mainly a publicity stunt that backfired on its first day. However, it does seem to show a "powers that be" willingness to have such shuttles deployed but there is so much glass that perhaps the truck driver didn't even see it since the solid blue is near the ground and the rest is see through plexiglass.

0.6 miles end to end ain't much, but its better than 0.0 miles.

Anyway I thought it would be an interesting item for people to be aware of but did not think there would be an adverse event quite so soon.

Its rather low-slung for ease of entry and exit and perhaps future versions will have poles in the front supporting a sign that reads "driverless shuttle" for the convenience of would-be riders and for the convenience of truck drivers who are backing up.

Now that I'm aware of it, if I see it when I'm going by there, I'll prolly pull over & try to jump on it. Just for the novelty of it, like they apparently want me to. Just like I did the monorail when it first started. And broke down, left me stranded up in the air for an hour and a half staring down at dumpsters at the ass-end of the Sahara, with Griswold family type tourists who'd packed it with a hoard of screaming brats. And none of the moms were hot.

Quote: billryan

You sure about that? The El Cortez is on 6th, so the shuttle goes from LV Blvd, past the old Western hotel. not a great distance but a decent walk in the desert heat.

Yup, I'm real sure. It is three blocks, and short ones that are actually less than 3 standard city blocks on their long side. Done it many times from ElCo (6th) to Atomic Liquors (middle of the block between 9th & 10th) and back.*

But a walk is measured on the brow of the beholder, I guess. I'm NOT someone who'd sneer at someone who decides they're more comfortable driving the little ways down the street, if they prefer, even though I think backing into a parking spot and locking the door might take longer than the "drive." But if I was standing next to my car in the 500 block of Fremont I wouldn't even bother getting into it to go over to the site of what was the old Western. And I think I'm pretty lazy that way, and proud of it; I absolutely despise the long walk into PHo for example, and curse the architect's incompetence with every step of it. But to each his own.

You got me curious about my recollection, so I just measured a few things on Google maps. From the center of the MGM Grand casino to the MGM Grand Conference Center in back is about 1,300 feet. LV Blvd to 8th & Fremont is about 1,100 feet. And strolling from one end of the 'Outlet Mall' shops (Grand Central Pkwy & Bonneville) from the Neiman Marcus store to the Nike shop at the other end is about twice that distance.

*For the record, me doing that was all before they went and spiffed up The Atomic, ruined it by throwing out the disreputable crowd, and it was subsequently colonized by trendy little hipster geeks.


Short LV Sun article on this genuinely old-time Las Vegas place about a block past the end of this alleged shuttle's route, with brief mention of its long history and recent changes:

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2013/feb/18/joe-downtown-decades-old-safe-discovered-atomic-li/

It's 6/10ths of a mile. Not the length of a buffet line, nor any of the distances you mentioned.

Quote: DrawingDead

*For the record, me doing that was all before they went and spiffed up The Atomic, ruined it by throwing out the disreputable crowd, and it was subsequently colonized by trendy little hipster geeks.

I remember the old, near the end, days clearly when Joe and Stella owned the Atomic. Because the area became so bad you had to be buzzed in to get the $1 Busch beers. White Privilege at its best, lol. Talked my wife into a few trips to the Western and the Atomic in the end days and we never regretted it. Became known for an above average tip, which the staff deserved. Miss the old East Fremont of the mid 2000’s, which seems like yesterday. Sure many others have memories from years before me.

All of that said, today’s Atomic offers one of the best craft draft lists in Vegas this side of Aces & Ales and if you take your hipster repellent spray isn’t a bad place to have a beer. And the walk to it is a lot more gentrified.

Quote: billryan

It's 6/10ths of a mile. Not the length of a buffet line, nor any of the distances you mentioned.

NO. It is NOT. It is 0.2 mi from LV Blvd to 8th on Fremont, which is 1056 feet:

Google Map (walking)

Quote: Google (walking directions)

4 min (0.2 mile)
via Fremont St
Mostly flat

...And to stretch 6/10th out of it for them to make it sound like it is going somewhere actually means taking the 0.2 from LV Blvd down to 8th [which is The End for someone actually going somewhere], then because of the one-way street jog south one block for a scant 0.1 to Carson St, to come back 0.2 again in the direction you just came from to LV Blvd, and then finally 0.1 to go the one block back over to Fremont.

But if it seems at all even a little bit unpleasant to walk for someone at any time, then it does, so be it, that's that for them, and that's all that matters.

Quote: Boz

Quote: DrawingDead

*For the record, me doing that was all before they went and spiffed up The Atomic, ruined it by throwing out the disreputable crowd, and it was subsequently colonized by trendy little hipster geeks.

I remember the old, near the end, days clearly when Joe and Stella owned the Atomic. Because the area became so bad you had to be buzzed in to get the $1 Busch beers. White Privilege at its best, lol. Talked my wife into a few trips to the Western and the Atomic in the end days and we never regretted it. Became known for an above average tip, which the staff deserved. Miss the old East Fremont of the mid 2000’s, which seems like yesterday. Sure many others have memories from years before me.

All of that said, today’s Atomic offers one of the best craft draft lists in Vegas this side of Aces & Ales and if you take your hipster repellent spray isn’t a bad place to have a beer. And the walk to it is a lot more gentrified.

[Highlighting added]

Yikes, wow, and yahooza! Now suddenly I am truly, deeply, most sincerely very impressed, Mr. Boz. I had no clue, would not have guessed you were that wide ranging out of the usual tourist bubbles into some of the life of the city, shame on me. You are a rare sort of visitor Sir, and it is my pleasure to tip my cap to you.

"Because" indeed. Since you were acquainted with Joe & Stella & that era, did you know Jimmy, the retired Navy guy with the booming voice that gave him a commanding presence dealing with the most difficult characters who washed in on the tide, when he was running the joint for them? And was the semi-official mayor of Fremont, fixer, ambassador between social classes, and other stuff not appropriate to be too detailed about in a public forum. Or was it just the more raggedy end, after Jimmy bailed for his dream condo in Rio and was replaced behind the bar by some folks that had a harder time coping with it all, leading to some raids and forced closures...?

...more to follow, but wanted to respond to that timely.

Quote: DrawingDead

Quote: Boz

Quote: DrawingDead

*For the record, me doing that was all before they went and spiffed up The Atomic, ruined it by throwing out the disreputable crowd, and it was subsequently colonized by trendy little hipster geeks.

I remember the old, near the end, days clearly when Joe and Stella owned the Atomic. Because the area became so bad you had to be buzzed in to get the $1 Busch beers. White Privilege at its best, lol. Talked my wife into a few trips to the Western and the Atomic in the end days and we never regretted it. Became known for an above average tip, which the staff deserved. Miss the old East Fremont of the mid 2000’s, which seems like yesterday. Sure many others have memories from years before me.

All of that said, today’s Atomic offers one of the best craft draft lists in Vegas this side of Aces & Ales and if you take your hipster repellent spray isn’t a bad place to have a beer. And the walk to it is a lot more gentrified.

[Highlighting added]

Yikes, wow, and yahooza! Now suddenly I am truly, deeply, most sincerely very impressed, Mr. Boz. I had no clue, shame on me. You are a rare sort of visitor Sir, and it is my pleasure to tip my cap to you.

"Because" indeed. Since you were acquainted with Joe & Stella & that era, did you know Jimmy, the retired Navy guy with the booming voice that gave him a commanding presence dealing with the most difficult characters who washed in on the tide, when he was running the joint for them? And was the semi-official mayor, fixer, ambassador between social classes, and other stuff not appropriate to be too detailed about in a public forum. Or was it just the bitter end, after Jimmy bailed for his dream condo in Rio and was replaced by some folks that had a harder time coping with it all, leading to some raids and forced closures...?

...more to follow, but wanted to respond to that timely.

I do, yes I do but I think we were near the end. We read about the history of the place and of course wanted to visit. First visit September 2005, the walk was interesting in those days once you went past the Fitz even. East Fremont was a tattoo place, a pizza place and a few other store fronts long gone for “Beauty Bar” and such. Though the Beauty Bar was an early member of the reconstruction of East Fremont and I respect the vision. The old motel across the street was still open “Fergersons?” Didn’t know we would be buzzed in but were right away and enjoyed a few cheap beers. We amazed being in a place like that but were left alone to enjoy a couple beers. Loved the headers above the bar, pure old school. Left a good tip and headed to the Western. I think I put a few stories of our visits to the Western on here years ago, but again appreciated the cheap beer and left a good tip, and impression on the bartender.

Went back multiple times over the next few years in the late 2000’s and always had good service at the Atomic. The Western never really changed either though it seemed East Fremont was changing and trying to be more mainstream.

And I wanted to add we heard about the Bunkhouse Saloon but never visited. Seemed like it was a happening place at night but we were always day visitors. And not to burst your impression of us as rebel tourists but always back to the “safe” confines of the strip later at night.

Quote: FleaStiff

Its rather low-slung for ease of entry and exit and perhaps future versions will have poles in the front supporting a sign that reads "driverless shuttle" for the convenience of would-be riders and for the convenience of truck drivers who are backing up.

The reporting on the accident has been hit or miss. Stress on the "hit." If the truck was backing up, did he blow his horn? What does the driver say about seeing or not seeing the unusually small vehicle? What do the witnesses say? Especially in a compact and busy area like downtown horn blowing and other signals like hand waves can be crucial. Maybe the shuttle contraption doesn't have a sensor for that.

RE: More Atomic debris. Too long; don’t read.

I was familiar with Atomic Liquors only in the ‘buzzer bar’ era. I’ve only briefly poked my head in a few times since it became a clean well lighted place without the need for a door buzzer, and generally became fit for decent folk and whatnot. (With actual living plants and “free high-speed WiFi” at the Atomic, what’s the world coming to?) I don’t know exactly how long the ‘buzzer’ era predated my first door buzz, but it was definitely sometime in the last century (well before year 2000 by at least a decade).

About the old motel, Monsieur Boz, I'm thinking you might be thinking of the Ambassador, it being that especially big decrepit old ‘by-the-week’ residential motel filling the block across the street, before the neighborhood got so far into the upgrading process that they improved that place by turning it into a really big vacant lot. It was directly across, with some windows that gave a view into the goings on in the former small event & business meeting space, former barber shop, lobby, and eventually sort of dingy lounge that with the courtyard was kind of a town square for some. Not surprised you’d notice it because it was more significant to the life of the surrounding area than many similar places. There were just a lot more people who landed there for an extended time either on their way to starting out in the world or the last stop toward falling off the edge of it.



In the scruffy years I knew it, the Atomic had a truly unique atmosphere from an uncommon mix of folk I don’t think I’ve seen mingling easily like that anywhere else. I met a fellow there who was the majority owner of a casino you’d be sure to recognize, just as I also became acquainted with an interesting regular who occasionally filled me in on a little bit of the ins & outs of his career as a professional ‘accident victim’ which he pursued to refill his stake whenever it eventually disappeared into bill acceptor slots and up his nose. For celebrity color in my Atomic era I had no rat pack, but Jimmy threw out Sharon Stone one night, with extra special vigor even for him, when she disapproved of her drink and some of the company at the bar and insulted his bartending skills. (They filmed a scene of Casino in an old filling station next door and she’d taken to unwinding there - ‘till the night she was no longer welcome).

On a Friday evening it wouldn’t be unusual to see a judge sitting over there, the aforementioned accident artist on another stool, a former local elected official & current political machine functionary, several hookers not trolling for business at all but in for off-duty relaxing & socializing, a couple of lawyers, a fellow who was known to be available to informally buy various goods that don’t have original tags or legilble serial numbers and to be available to take orders to procure similar goods of informal provenance, some casino middle management folks loosening their ties, and a quiet fellow regular customer treated with special deference who occasionally left suddenly on some sort of business to take care of “a thing” after taking a phone call at the bar and about which one was not supposed to inquire, and a few stray tourists looking a bit confused about the place.

In spite of my snark about the kiddies with industrial fasteners installed in their body parts I believe I do understand the inevitability of the changes, I have to concede that on balance it may be for the best, and I have no doubt that it is much more appealing now for > 80% of potential visitors and locals alike, and certainly makes much better business. But. When folks migrate to Las Vegas it seems more than a few immediately set about trying to make it more like the place they just escaped from. The migration waves I’ve seen are accompanied by capital and energy and new kinds of business enterprises and greater overall community prosperity. That’s well & good, and even if I didn’t think so I still wouldn’t want to impose control of it to suit me.

Even so, I still miss quite a few of the not so spiffy people and places, and feel some regret over the general homogenization of the city which to me has meant a loss of a lot of the distinctive character of Las Vegas.

Atomic Liquors was a very distinctive place with authentic history accomodating true Las Vegas characters not posing as such to make up a “narrative” identity. It and they were as different as they looked. But now, I’m sure it is a more comfortable place with better tasting stuff to drink. Maybe Sharon Stone should return.

Quote: Boz

And I wanted to add we heard about the Bunkhouse Saloon but never visited. Seemed like it was a happening place at night but we were always day visitors. And not to burst your impression of us as rebel tourists but always back to the “safe” confines of the strip later at night.

I don't know it well, but second hand impression of the Bunkhouse is that it was well thought of as a watering hole with those who did know it better, and also had some success as a small music venue. I think it has probably been a couple of years now since I've gone there. But not for any particular reason that put me off of it.

Bunkhouse is a major part of the downtown music scene these days. It wasn't always. As recently as five or six years ago, it was iffy that it would be open much after midnight.

I lived on Carson and 11th for a short time around 1991. I didn't have a car at the time so I would walk to the what I believe was Ambassador (now that DD reminded me of the name of that place) and Atomic Liquor to shoot pool. I didn't go there for any nostalgic reason or cheap drinks. I was not even old enough to drink at the time, but the girl I dated was 23. Those places were my only real options within walking distance and they never carded me, so I didn't pay much attention to the names at the time, but the place sure seems familiar to me and the bar I went to was around that area. I don't think I realized just how bad that area was at the time or how many bad people were out there in the world.

Since I left that area, I don't think I have ever been back to that bar.

There are always some really nice 'hole in the wall' bars.

I remember in New York's Greenwich Village when bars and restaurants were turning very 'trendy' and 'upscale', one small bar just stayed the same: low priced drinks, friendly people, no tourists. The bar even provided a bank of private "post office" boxes for the regulars many of whom shipped out as ABs for six months of the year and then spent the other six months drinking and writing in the Village.

Quote: DrawingDead

Obviously tourists. Locals would've instantly been all over the "injury" thing like green on felt.

Doubtful any passenger was hurt.
‘Barely felt it’ is probably more accurate:

Quote: news teport

The autonomous shuttle was testing today when it was grazed by a delivery truck downtown. The shuttle did what it was supposed to do, in that it’s sensors registered the truck and the shuttle stopped to avoid the accident. Unfortunately, the delivery truck did not stop and grazed the front fender of the shuttle.

I guess the interesting questions would be:
Did the shuttle honk?
Does it even have a horn?
Why didn’t it back up to get out of the way?

Good luck to all on the shuttle.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Doubtful any passenger was hurt.
‘Barely felt it’ is probably more accurate:

I guess the interesting questions would be:
Did the shuttle honk?
Does it even have a horn?
Why didn’t it back up to get out of the way?

Yes, from the article & photo slideshow in the R-J it looks like it could be called the most heavily publicized pencil sized paint scrape ever. I get the impression that if it had happened between a couple of ordinary vehicles in a supermarket parking lot the drivers might not even want to bother to report it to their insurance companies. And the truck driver sounds like he's on the hook for his company paying to buff out the little scrape he gave it. And I gather it stopped itself until humans came to deal with it in some way.

That said, some peculiar questions do come to mind. If the HAL9000 computer driving the shuttle ever got drunk (virtually speaking) and blew some red lights or started weaving between lanes or something, how would Metro PD pull it over and ticket it, or arrest it to go to the drunk tank 'till its electronics sober up? And if it is involved or potentially causes an accident with me, what exactly am I supposed to do about the exchange of information at the scene and reporting process with it? Maybe I should treat it like an accident with a utility pole? Except that this pole has wheels and moves down the road and I say it wasn't signalling and just pulled out into my lane and ran into me and now you should make it touch its nose and count backwards.

Quote: FleaStiff

...<SNIP>...

The bar even provided a bank of private "post office" boxes for the regulars many of whom shipped out as ABs for six months of the year and then spent the other six months drinking and writing in the Village.

What's an AB?

Able Bodied, aka Merchant Sailors. The poster must be pretty old to remember when NY had a shipping trade.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Doubtful any passenger was hurt.
‘Barely felt it’ is probably more accurate:

I guess the interesting questions would be:
Did the shuttle honk?
Does it even have a horn?
Why didn’t it back up to get out of the way?

From my understanding it was equipped with a horn but it didn't honk. That's one of the things they are trying to figure out.

Quote: billryan

Able Bodied, aka Merchant Sailors. The poster must be pretty old to remember when NY had a shipping trade.

Gotcha, thanx.

Quote: billryan

Able Bodied, aka Merchant Sailors. The poster must be pretty old to remember when NY had a shipping trade.

Sorry guys, didn't mean to confuse anyone. Yes, AB is Able Bodied seaman. The West Village used to have scores of people who would work for awhile, then write for awhile and all the time drink. Their bartender was their banker and the bar was their "home address'.

Of course such high paid union jobs disappeared, as did good food, when the shipping industry became all foreign flags, foreign officers, foreign crews and foreign ownership.

And, yes, Fleastiff as well as being dirt poor is indeed older than dirt.

As usual, Fleastiff never knows whereof he speaks.... was never in the Merchant Marine.

This accident may reveal that driverless vehicles need to have microphones to listen for sirens and vehicle-backing-up alarms.

Quote: FleaStiff

This accident may reveal that driverless vehicles need to have microphones to listen for sirens and vehicle-backing-up alarms.

Can they even travel in reverse?

Quote: SanchoPanza

Can they even travel in reverse?

I meant a microphone to hear and respond to other vehicles that are sounding a 'backing-up' alarm.

Despite all the adverse publicity I'm glad the device had its debut. Other cities are twiddling thumbs, Las Vegas took action.

Maybe they got the insurance policy with Accident Forgiveness !

More:

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/self-driving-bus-crashed-vegas-173438911.html

Irrelevant post of the day:

Poking around a little for stuff about that area of the city before my time skulking around it, stumbled on this from a postcard collector's site about a place mentioned earlier here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hollywoodplace/with/4327990199/

Quote:

Fergusons Motel - Las Vegas, Nevada
1028 Fremont St.
Las Vegas, Nevada

In downtown Las Vegas - 68 Unusually Fine Soundproof Units with Combination tub & shower - Refrigeration - Unit Heat - Free TV - Wall to Wall Carpet - Kitchenettes - Near Good Restaurants - Shopping - Gaming and Night Life. For reservations phone collect 702-382-4500 (within 550 miles). On Highways 83 & 466. AAA Approved. A Friendship Inn.

I think maybe they could've called that a kinda sorta almost semi-swanky joint back in the day. Is that a '62-'65-ish Caddy parked out front? Looks like about a four stiff trunk.


And in a lame attempt to include something more on-topic, here's a Welcome to the Fabulous World Famous Oopsie from this morning's R-J:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/downtown/electric-shuttle-bus-returning-to-downtown-las-vegas-roads/



Pffffft. Plastic bumper.

Quote: DrawingDead

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/downtown/electric-shuttle-bus-returning-to-downtown-las-vegas-roads/



Pffffft. Plastic bumper.

lol @ someone putting band-aids on the bumper.
im guessing the dmg is cosmetic thus no repairs were done?

Quote: billryan

The poster must be pretty old to remember when NY had a shipping trade.

"There are four container terminals in the port, whose combined volume makes it the largest on the East Coast,[48][49][50] the third busiest in the United States,[51] and 20th worldwide. Terminals are leased to different port operators,[52] such as A. P. Moller-Maersk Group, American Stevedoring,[53] NYCT,[54] and Global Marine Terminal.[55]

Howland Hook Marine Terminal
Port Jersey Marine Terminal
Port Newark-Elizabeth Marine Terminal, the nation's first and third busiest
Red Hook Marine Terminal

Approximately 3,200,000 twenty-foot equivalent units (TEU) of containers and 700,000 automobiles are handled per year.[56] In the first half of 2014, the port handled 1,583,449 containers, a 35,000-container increase above the six-month record set in 2012,[57] while the port handled a monthly record of 306,805 containers in October 2014.[58] In June 2010, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey agreed to purchase from Bayonne 128 acres (0.52 km2) of land at the Military Ocean Terminal at Bayonne, indicating that additional container port facilities would be created.[59] The agency is expected to develop a terminal capable of handling the larger container ships to be in service once the new, wider Panama Canal opens in 2014, some of which will not pass under the Bayonne Bridge at the Kill van Kull.[60] A project to raise to the roadway of the bridge within the existing arch is underway.[61]--wikipedia

When did Newark, Elizabeth or Port Jersey become part of New York? Bayonne even?
All those Ports, and the jobs that go with them are in New Jersey, having left New York in the 1960s when container ships began to dominate the trade.
New York used to have piers from the Battery up to about 70th street. Now you have Pier 40, where a few day cruises depart, the Passenger Ship Terminal in the mid 40s, and the Circle Line/ more upscale three hour cruise ships.
NY County hasn't had merchant shipping in decades. Not sure what goes on in Red Hook these days, but can't imagine its much of anything.


From Wiki
The SS Ideal X, considered the first container ship, made her maiden voyage as a container carrier on April 26, 1956,[9] carrying 58 containers from Port Newark to the Port of Houston.[10][11] SeaLand expanded its operations into the newly developed container terminal.
In 1958, the port authority dredged another shipping channel, which straightened the course of Bound Brook, the tidal inlet forming the boundary between Newark and Elizabeth. Dredged materials were used to create new upland south of the new Elizabeth Channel, where the port authority constructed the Elizabeth Marine Terminal. The first shipping facility to open on the Elizabeth Channel was the new 90-acre (36 ha) Sea-Land Container Terminal, which was the prototype for virtually every container terminal constructed thereafter.[10]
This new port facility antiquated most of the traditional waterfront port facilities in New York Harbor, leading to a steep decline in such areas as Manhattan, Hoboken, and Brooklyn. The automated nature of the facility requires far fewer workers and does not require the opening of containers before onward shipping

The Port of New York was always partly located in New Jersey. Even the sailor's retirement home of Snug Harbor sold their land and moved to the Carolinas. Unions may still be powerful but they have few members. Its all computers these days.
The Port of Los Angeles was in San Pedro. Even San Pedro is now upscale, not just tugboats and fishing boats.
The Port of Palm Beach is in Riviera Beach.
The Port of Cape Canaveral is in Cocoa Beach.

Some are "ports" in name only. Most cargo is in containers and has been for decades.

This tangent may interest all of about two people, and I'm not too sure about those, one of which is me, but:

Quote: FleaStiff

...The Port of Los Angeles was in San Pedro...

True, but that doesn't mean what I think you'd probably think it does.

San Pedro is entirely within the City of Los Angeles, totally part of it in every sense, and has been since 1909, along with the port facilities there, and in fact a recent former Los Angeles mayor's (Jim Hahn's) home was and is there, before during & after he was Mayor of the City of Los Angeles. San Pedro is just an informal name used to identify one of the districts & neighborhoods of that city, just like "Downtown" & "Koreatown" & "Sunset Strip" & "Watts" & "Studio City" & "Chinatown" & "The Fashion District."

Most of LA isn't in LA. So much that in some parts you almost can't get to LA from LA without technically leaving LA. I'm a bit familiar with it; I was born there. There's a patchwork of more than 80 municipal government fiefdoms that according to the last census contained all but 22% of the population. But San Pedro isn't one of them. It is just plain LA, with a nickname. It is LA enough so that from the middle of downtown you (or your cutting-edge supertech but slightly dinged-up & bandaged autonomous self-driving shuttle) can just drive straight down Figueroa, keep driving, make no turns, and when you eventually go "splash" or else crash into the 140 year old lighthouse, you've reached the south edge of both LA & the part of it called San Pedro. Bon voyage.

Quote: billryan

When did Newark, Elizabeth or Port Jersey become part of New York? Bayonne even?

About 100 years ago. The Port Authority, by act of Congress, is one of the first bistate government agencies. It exercises power over a 25-county region within a 40-kilometer radius of the State of Liberty. And it now has three-state police power.

Quote: billryan

This new port facility antiquated most of the traditional waterfront port facilities in New York Harbor, leading to a steep decline in such areas as Manhattan, Hoboken, and Brooklyn. The automated nature of the facility requires far fewer workers and does not require the opening of containers before onward shipping

Obviously written by someone with virtually no acquaintance of the Erie Basin. As for Manhattan, it brought on its own maritime problems, in part by allowing the construction of hotels, warehouses and areas like the new West Side Yards alongside the West Side Highway and its remnants. Yet Manhattan never did have much in the way of cargo operations on the shores of either the North or East Rivers.

Anyone know if the shuttle is out of the recovery room and back into service or not?

That accident probably gave it far more publicity than it otherwise would have received. And maybe far more riders too?

Quote: SanchoPanza

About 100 years ago. The Port Authority, by act of Congress, is one of the first bistate government agencies. It exercises power over a 25-county region within a 40-kilometer radius of the State of Liberty. And it now has three-state police power.

Obviously written by someone with virtually no acquaintance of the Erie Basin. As for Manhattan, it brought on its own maritime problems, in part by allowing the construction of hotels, warehouses and areas like the new West Side Yards alongside the West Side Highway and its remnants. Yet Manhattan never did have much in the way of cargo operations on the shores of either the North or East Rivers.

The Port Authority is a multi state Authority, it isn't NY. It's not NY State and certainly isn't NY City, nor even New York County. Is Met Life Stadium in NY just because two NY teams play there? That's like saying a car built in Canada is American made, since it was built in North America. Or Vermont is Maine, since they are both in New England. Where in Manhattan is the North River? Just making stuff up as you go along? That name hasn't been used in NY for almost a hundred years. It's what happens when one searches wiki for instant knowledge.
Seeing how I lived on Governors Island for several years, and ran a floating nightclub on the Queen of Hearts, I'd say I have a bit of familiarity with NY Harbor. Have been on its waters many, many hundred times. People who work in the Jersey Ports don't pay NY taxes, for the most part don't live in NY and most certainly don't make the trip from Newark or Elizabeth to drink in NYC bars. which was what the poster was talking about.
Anyways, lets pretend you are right. What's Next?

Quote: billryan

People who work in the Jersey Ports don't pay NY taxes, for the most part don't live in NY and most certainly don't make the trip from Newark or Elizabeth to drink in NYC bars. which was what the poster was talking about.

Many of the workers in companies that moved to Jersey like the stevedores and longshoremen along with manufacturers like Sunshine Biscuits and Nabisco continued to live in New York. Sunshine even ran special buses to Sayreville. Those people, like Jerseyans who work in New York, have to file income taxes in both states. albeit with arbitrary schemes for "credits."

Quote: FleaStiff

Anyone know if the shuttle is out of the recovery room and back into service or not?

That accident probably gave it far more publicity than it otherwise would have received. And maybe far more riders too?

From the last two sentences of the R-J's blue bus with Band-Aids piece on Thurs/Fri (linked with the pic above) which is still the last update that I've seen about when the contraption with the slightly sore nose will get off the sofa in celebrity-bus rehab and go back to work:

Quote: Briana Erickson, Las Vegas Review-Journal, November 9, 2017 - 6:21 pm

...<SNIP>...

It will be taken out of service Saturday to Monday to repair the fiberglass from where the truck’s tire struck the vehicle, Bell said.

Shuttle service will resume as usual Tuesday, from 11 a.m. to 7 p.m.