Table Game vs. Poker Dealers

A craps dealer I sometimes chat with was in the pit today wearing his street clothes. He left before I could speak with him, but I asked the Floor if the dealer was leaving.

The Supervisor said the dealer was applying for a position as a poker dealer in the same casino, but was required to resign as a table games dealer before he could apply for the poker gig. The Floor wasn't sure what the reasoning was, but said that the table and poker dealers stayed in their respective parts of the casino -- no overlap in assignment allowed.

Is this standard procedure in the business?

Yes. Poker rooms are independent similar to how Saturn once was at GM. To work at Saturn, an assembly line worker had to quit at "GM."

Poker Room is kind of a dead-end career move. Dealers get to sit and not stand plus almost always keep their own tips (except for tournaments) but they do not much interact with other management or get to know same. Since it is such a flat and smaller structure, chances for promotion are lower. You do not learn as much about operations. You are in your own world in many ways.

Thanks for the reply.

What's the advantage to the casino in this arrangement?

Quote: Calder

Thanks for the reply.

What's the advantage to the casino in this arrangement?

The advantage is in practicality. The poker room is the only place where the players are not playing against the casino, but rather each other. This requires a different kind of management because if there is a dispute some player will be ruled against. A BJ Pit Boss can say "forget it" if a rule costs the house $50 as they will probably win it back in minutes. In the poker room, it is two guys (poker rooms are 90% male players) in a dispute and sometimes getting raised voices. The floormen have to know the game cold, because the players will. So you cannot have a pit boss who is weak at poker mixing in.

Then there is the need for skilled dealers. At the least poker dealers need to learn 3 games. Need to be trained on this. It is just confusing to mix poker and table games. So along with other practical needs, the poker room has grown into its own little world.

I was in casino school for craps. The head instructor told us that poker limits your career. Ironically the last LI update I saw the guy is now managing a poker room. He is sharp so they probably put him in there to ether clean it up or groom him to move up in management.

My experience is that poker dealers are far more sharp about the games and know the math better. Of course not all, I was in a 20 minute argument with one about 3rd base BJ play and "taking the dealer's bust card" until I remembered the thing about the bigger fool arguing with the fool. But since they see odds all day I think they learn odds. Plus poker players are shall we say, "a better kind of degenerate." Poker really is its own little world for casino and players alike.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is just confusing to mix poker and table games.

There is no separation of church and state at my local haunt.

From time to time, a table games dealer will want EO, and a poker dealer won't, even though the poker room is dead.

It is very annoying to skilled blackjack players to have a poker dealer filling in. I'm sure it is similarly annoying to tournament poker players to have blackjack dealers fill in on the early round tables, when there are simply too many tables and not enough dealers otherwise.

I understand why they operate like two separate divisions.

What I don't get is why a casino dealer must quit before he even applies to become a poker dealer, as the OP suggested.

I mean, if there is a rule like that, it should merely be that you need to quit if accepted for the other job. Not merely to apply...

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes. Poker rooms are independent similar to how Saturn once was at GM. To work at Saturn, an assembly line worker had to quit at "GM."

Poker Room is kind of a dead-end career move. Dealers get to sit and not stand plus almost always keep their own tips (except for tournaments) but they do not much interact with other management or get to know same. Since it is such a flat and smaller structure, chances for promotion are lower. You do not learn as much about operations. You are in your own world in many ways.

This is the case many places, but not all. The poker rooms in casinos in my area pool tips (I hate it) and sometimes deal on the main floor in addition to the poker room.

Quote: MidwestAP

This is the case many places, but not all. The poker rooms in casinos in my area pool tips (I hate it) and sometimes deal on the main floor in addition to the poker room.

Quote: Dieter

There is no separation of church and state at my local haunt.

I get it, not all. But the case in most places.

Back to the OP, perhaps "apply" is the wrong word? My guess is the dealer is pre-hired and does not quit until he knows so. The rest is formality?

Quote: AZDuffman

...perhaps "apply" is the wrong word? My guess is the dealer is pre-hired and does not quit until he knows so. The rest is formality?

Thanks for the responses.

I didn't get into it at length, but "resign" and "apply" were the words the supervisor used; that's what surprised me. I suspect your explanation is correct, and it was more about semantics.

We don't separate poker and gaming when it comes to dealers. In fact, i'll go from poker supervisor to roulette/blackjack dealer in one night. I'll start the night running the poker floor, but once the tournament is over, i'll go to the gaming floor and deal. All our dealers can deal poker as well as the table games. This is in Ireland.

all casino's are different ....my place the poker dealers are all a part of table games.

As regard to the different skills needed for poker or gaming dealers... I think its harder to learn and master the table games (by this i mean Roulette and Blackjack), rather than Poker. Ive never dealt Craps, but i've heard this is the hardest, most complicated, but also most enjoyable, game to deal.

I learnt Roulette and Blackjack first, then Poker later. Poker was easy in the sense of having all the technical skills already (chip handling etc), but learning to control a poker table takes time and experience. And as someone mentioned, Poker is different in that the players are playing against each other, rather than against the house, a fundamental difference when it comes to controlling the game.

I think i'm rambling, so to summarise... all these games require different skills, but most experienced dealers should be able to adjust and learn each one, though i think its easier for a table games dealer to learn Poker, than vice versa.

Quote: ShineyShine

I think i'm rambling, so to summarise... all these games require different skills, but most experienced dealers should be able to adjust and learn each one, though i think its easier for a table games dealer to learn Poker, than vice versa.

In American casinos one notable difference is shirt pockets.

any shirt or pants pocket in a dealer's uniform is an automatic dischargeable offense. a roulette dealer can spin the wheel for twenty years but he will never have either shirt or pants pockets. same with blackjack or craps dealers. No pockets. ever.
Yet in the poker room all poker dealers have shirt pockets from day one.

Quote: FleaStiff

In American casinos one notable difference is shirt pockets.

any shirt or pants pocket in a dealer's uniform is an automatic dischargeable offense. a roulette dealer can spin the wheel for twenty years but he will never have either shirt or pants pockets. same with blackjack or craps dealers. No pockets. ever.
Yet in the poker room all poker dealers have shirt pockets from day one.

Why do Poker Dealers need shirt pockets?

Quote: FleaStiff

In American casinos one notable difference is shirt pockets.

any shirt or pants pocket in a dealer's uniform is an automatic dischargeable offense. a roulette dealer can spin the wheel for twenty years but he will never have either shirt or pants pockets. same with blackjack or craps dealers. No pockets. ever.
Yet in the poker room all poker dealers have shirt pockets from day one.

I see plenty of table games dealers with pants pockets.

Quote: FleaStiff

In American casinos one notable difference is shirt pockets.

any shirt or pants pocket in a dealer's uniform is an automatic dischargeable offense. a roulette dealer can spin the wheel for twenty years but he will never have either shirt or pants pockets. same with blackjack or craps dealers. No pockets. ever.
Yet in the poker room all poker dealers have shirt pockets from day one.

Yeah no pockets allowed, or they have to be sewn up. Though in my experience some casinos are more strict (read:anal) than others on this. I personally think this is a silly rule...if dealers are gonna steal chips, sewn up pockets aint gonna stop them.

One thing to note in our place, when dealing poker you can wear a watch, so you can keep track of the rake to be taken (we take it on a half hourly guideline basis), but cant wear a watch when dealing on the gaming floor.

I read somewhere dealers can't wear cuffed pants, either, where they could drop/slide chips down their leg into the cuffs. Don't know if that's true.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I read somewhere dealers can't wear cuffed pants, either, where they could drop/slide chips down their leg into the cuffs. Don't know if that's true.

Never heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. These rules really annoy me, 99.9% (that figure is off the top of my head, just to illustrate a point) of dealers are not gonna steal, and the 0.01% that will, these rules won't stop them. So why treat decent staff like suspected criminals with these rules?

Quote: ShineyShine

Never heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. These rules really annoy me, 99.9% (that figure is off the top of my head, just to illustrate a point) of dealers are not gonna steal, and the 0.01% that will, these rules won't stop them. So why treat decent staff like suspected criminals with these rules?

I don't think taking safe guards is a bad thing. They were slack about the no shirt pocket rule at my casino and we caught a dealer sneaking $100s into their pocket. Nearly half of thefts in casinos are done by employees so I can see being careful in as many areas as possible.

Quote: FleaStiff

In American casinos one notable difference is shirt pockets.

any shirt or pants pocket in a dealer's uniform is an automatic dischargeable offense. a roulette dealer can spin the wheel for twenty years but he will never have either shirt or pants pockets. same with blackjack or craps dealers. No pockets. ever.
Yet in the poker room all poker dealers have shirt pockets from day one.

why? chips in poker are just as good as chips in table games. (assuming you are not talking about a tournament)

Quote: andysif

why? chips in poker are just as good as chips in table games. (assuming you are not talking about a tournament)

Because in Vegas, the poker dealers put the tokes in that shirt pocket - not in a drop box like the regular tables, or poker rooms elsewhere.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Because in Vegas, the poker dealers put the tokes in that shirt pocket - not in a drop box like the regular tables, or poker rooms elsewhere.

hmm.... interesting

a stupid question: i wonder how many dealers have tried/ got caught trying/ "palming" chips when they are handling them. With some practice and sleight of hand I think it makes a good living.

Quote: andysif

"palming" chips when they are handling them. With some practice and sleight of hand I think it makes a good living.

... until you're caught and lose your gaming license and have to find a new line of work.