speedycrap
speedycrap
Joined: Oct 13, 2013
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April 5th, 2021 at 10:05:46 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

PRIVACY: I don't see this as a privacy issue. There is no one more concerned about privacy than I. I actually take a lot of heat from fellow AP's because I am not comfortable with meetup's and hanging out as a group of the local AP's are. So this isn't about privacy. It is about deception and misleading. If a member has a back story with unusual claims of success in Vegas, and his IP address reveals he lives in Idaho, or east Bubble-you-know what, or Canada, or Europe, I think management should be able to reveal that. That is not a violation of privacy.

We all give up a little privacy when we participate on a forum. You trust the owner/management to not reveal your name and who you are. During my "hiatus" from here, I was on another forum, Gambling Forums for a while, with a group that included known APs, and members from even here. After about a year it was revealed that the owner was doing some things that make him not trust-worthy of that information and there was a mass exodus. No one feels that way here. No one not trusts Wizard. If he should find out my name or age, or description, I have no doubt he would protect that. But calling out someone posting thousands of miles away from their back story and claims, and calling out sockpuppets designed ONLY to give false credibility to an otherwise discredited claim and member, is not a violation of privacy.

Privacy is a very important issue nowadays. I never like to disclose my own identity and location. It does not mean I like to hurt/harass anybody. It is only my preference and I hope other people will observe and respect it.
P.S. I reveal myself to 2 honorable members.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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April 5th, 2021 at 10:09:00 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Kewlj is simply saying members should not post thru VPNs.

There's nothing wrong with the suggestion.

If two or more members posted from the same IP address it can indicate a sock puppet or multiple member IDs.

Use a VPN if you like, but not when you post on a forum that doesn't allow socks or multiple identities.


Iíll restate - there is no reliable method to detect and ban VPN use on a website.

This thread seemed to be created with the misconception that VPNís could be banned on the forum with the flip of a switch. Itís not that easy.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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April 5th, 2021 at 10:20:42 AM permalink
Ignore a scab and it eventually goes away. Pick at it often enough and it becomes a permanent scar. Something we learned in childhood.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 174
  • Posts: 1377
April 5th, 2021 at 10:26:29 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Kewlj is simply saying members should not post thru VPNs.

There's nothing wrong with the suggestion.

If two or more members posted from the same IP address it can indicate a sock puppet or multiple member IDs.

Use a VPN if you like, but not when you post on a forum that doesn't allow socks or multiple identities.



multiple people with the same IP address can happen more often then you think because they can be coming from the same location - such as people who are in school or a coffee shop it is not an indication they are colluding although it could be used as a way to be aware of whats going on
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
OnceDear
April 5th, 2021 at 12:10:40 PM permalink
There are so many ways people can easily defeat the WOV sockpuppet detection task force. The head of sockpuppet security here is limited to his tools, time, and restrictions set by management. No reasonable rules could be set in place to guarantee someone is not a sockpuppet/dupe/ reincarnation. Untill someone makes a mistake, we are left with good old fashion gut feelings and logic. Most of the time it becomes abundantly clear who has the need, reason, and motivation for using supporting sockpuppets. Oftentimes, it's so obvious, it's cringe-worthy, and I'm embarrassed for them. We know the lengths people are willing to go in an attempt to have people believe in their BS, and for no other reason than some sick twisted sickness they have.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
FTB
April 5th, 2021 at 1:50:51 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

There are so many ways people can easily defeat the WOV sockpuppet detection task force. The head of sockpuppet security here is limited to his tools, time, and restrictions set by management. No reasonable rules could be set in place to guarantee someone is not a sockpuppet/dupe/ reincarnation. Untill someone makes a mistake, we are left with good old fashion gut feelings and logic. Most of the time it becomes abundantly clear who has the need, reason, and motivation for using supporting sockpuppets. Oftentimes, it's so obvious, it's cringe-worthy, and I'm embarrassed for them. We know the lengths people are willing to go in an attempt to have people believe in their BS, and for no other reason than some sick twisted sickness they have.

Cheers BNMOAT.

I'll say again. By even having this thread, we give clues to mischief makers as to how they can evade detection. So I'm not going to say what tools I/We have.
Gut and experience is a part of it. Sometimes we see a new user and KNOW it's a sock and ban him/her. We may not have proof and we may not even know which ne'er do well it is. But fortunately we have that authority from Wizard. It's used with discretion, including by wizard.
Quote: BNMOAT

No reasonable rules could be set in place to guarantee someone is not a sockpuppet/dupe/ reincarnation. Until someone makes a mistake, we are left with good old fashion gut feelings and logic.


I just wish* I didn't have to see decent contributing members frequently suspended because they cannot resist taking the bait of other clever members. I also wish junk threads could be allowed to decay gracefully instead of getting bumped all the time by said Decent members.
"I just wanted to challenge his nonsense = I just bumped his thread to the longest and most read"
"I blocked him and ignored his nonsense = I helped to bury that thread"

It's not rocket science.

*I also wish for peace on Earth and an end to disease. I'll settle for 1/3
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
rainman
rainman
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
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April 5th, 2021 at 2:06:01 PM permalink
We cant ban VPN usage, I don't have anywhere else to keep my dirty Socks.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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April 5th, 2021 at 3:08:40 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I am asking Wizard to reconsider the policy of allowing VPN's in the name of transparency, fairness and truth.



I don't think there is an easy way to screen for that. If there is, I am not aware of it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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April 5th, 2021 at 3:41:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't think there is an easy way to screen for that. If there is, I am not aware of it.



Dan Druff does it on his forum. I don't know how it works but he is able to detect when someone is using a VPN and requests that they unmask for a post or two to show their real IP and location, to be sure it is not a sock. I am not sure he applied this to every account but he does with the ones suspected of being sockpuppets.

Maybe the technology is different between the forums, but since Dan Druff is a member here, I will ask him to weigh in here or possible contact you privately.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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April 5th, 2021 at 4:41:41 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Maybe the technology is different between the forums, but since Dan Druff is a member here, I will ask him to weigh in here or possible contact you privately.



I'd be happy to hear from him.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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