Dark Oz Suspension
I want to thank RS for being the only person who understood i was going off memory of events from a year ago and not specifically hurling invective at q-fit. Not only did i state the words "if memory serves" but also "...defender of SOME gambling system OR PERSON. Im NOT SURE of the EXACT DETAIL" Endquote
But if it just came down to a misunderstanding of my using the word troll or trolling i would not complain (well maybe)
However mitigating circumstances are that i have been called a troll repeatedly on this forum in different threads and never was similar action taken
Here is the most glaring example. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/25612-a-ny-ap-move/2/
On page two both WON and GWAE accuse me of trolling and directly call me a troll
Note on page 3 the same moderator who suspended me for using the word troll corrects everyone by stating i am not trolling. Further down the page another mod BBB agrees
No suspensions were handed out for multiple pages of calling me a troll
This would lead anyone to believe that use of the word troll if that is genuinely your impression of someone (and even when the mods step in and correct those accusers) does not rise to the level of a suspension
I am sure some members will say that was under different circumstances. I disagree. That would leave it to forum members to decide when circumstances called for using the word troll or trolling as legitimate insult or excusable insult. Certainly that is not the intent of the mods
Combined with the mitigating circumstances that i was going off memory of events from over a year ago and that in nine (9) years of being on this forum i have never been suspended for hurling an insult while suffering this same insult being thrown at me repeatedly - I have to vociferously disagree with the punishment i was handed.
That said if the point of this thread was just to whine about something not reparable it wpuld be pointless. Instead i wish to add some constructive advice
More upsetting to me was being cut off even from discussing this with upper management. I understand in almost all cases mods decisions will be upheld but for there to be absolutely no way to plead ones case seems a bit disingenuous.
I propose there should at least be an open backdoor channel to the mod who did the suspension or perhaps to the Wizard for banned members. Any suspended member abusing that open channel can be cut off from it
To put it another way - if the United States can keep an open back door channel of communication with North Korea then i think WOV can keep an open backdoor channel of communication with suspended members
Quote: billryanI agree there should be some sort of appeal, but to keep the process from bogging down with unwarranted appeals, perhaps an unsuccessful one could double the suspension, or we could follow the NFL and limit the number of appeals. Maybe one a year, with a successful appeal gaining the poster another one.
I would be fine with limiting the number of appeals. If posters are receiving multiple suspensions that probably speaks for itself
Quote: MaxPenI think it is simpler to just do the time and come back without a bunch of crying.
I don't agree.
I like many things about the WOV forum -but I disagree with the policy and practice of frequent banning for "offenses" that I personally don't really give a hoot about. We lose valuable contributors to the WOV forum (which is a rather moribund site that needs more contributors).
1. There is an uneven-ness to the enforcement of the "no name-calling rule" that is simply undeniable. When rules are enforced un-evenly or arbitrarily, it provides the law enforcers (in this case the mods) the latitude to abuse their authority and punish people that irritate them in some way.
2. I don't like wizardofnothing much at all - we are usually on the opposite sides of arguments and I don't like the way in which he argues his positions. But I strongly disagree with his ban. Having duplicate accounts should be a warning first, then a series of graded suspensions for a limited time period. Nuking someone like wizardofnothing with a permanent ban for a duplicate account is folly. That is "FOLLY" -spelled F,O,L,L,Y.
3. In my opinion, DarkOz's suspension above was both wrong (because more insulting posts go unpunished all the time) and folly (because the health of the forum depends upon having members like DarkOz.)
Each and every time that the moderators are guilty of folly that injures the WOV forum, it is perfectly appropriate for members to speak up and criticize their actions. The WOV forum suspension policy and practices are extreme compared to other internet forums. The moderators' attempt to empty the WOV swamp of alligators went astray long ago, because they seemingly label every WOV forum member on their worst day as an alligator. So they depopulate the WOV forum to the point that it is an uninteresting site with about 5 new threads a day. Some days the WOV forum has more moderators than new threads.
The greatest asset of this site is its active members. Without active members and interesting provocative posts, there is no content, there is no reason for people to visit this site. The moderators should be treating members like DarkOz and WizardofNothing as precious assets and they should be trying to attract more people like them and retain them as active members. Not suspending them for calling someone a troll or permanently banning them for a duplicate account. This is folly.
Quote: gordonm888I don't agree.
I like many things about the WOV forum -but I disagree with the policy and practice of frequent banning for "offenses" that I personally don't really give a hoot about. We lose valuable contributors to the WOV forum (which is a rather moribund site that needs more contributors).
1. There is an uneven-ness to the enforcement of the "no name-calling rule" that is simply undeniable. When rules are enforced un-evenly or arbitrarily, it provides the law enforcers (in this case the mods) the latitude to abuse their authority and punish people that irritate them in some way.
2. I don't like wizardofnothing much at all - we are usually on the opposite sides of arguments and I don't like the way in which he argues his positions. But I strongly disagree with his ban. Having duplicate accounts should be a warning first, then a series of graded suspensions for a limited time period. Nuking someone like wizardofnothing with a permanent ban for a duplicate account is folly. That is "FOLLY" -spelled F,O,L,L,Y.
3. In my opinion, DarkOz's suspension above was both wrong (because more insulting posts go unpunished all the time) and folly (because the health of the forum depends upon having members like DarkOz.)
Each and every time that the moderators are guilty of folly that injures the WOV forum, it is perfectly appropriate for members to speak up and criticize their actions. The WOV forum suspension policy and practices are extreme compared to other internet forums. The moderators' attempt to empty the WOV swamp of alligators went astray long ago, because they seemingly label every WOV forum member on their worst day as an alligator. So they depopulate the WOV forum to the point that it is an uninteresting site with about 5 new threads a day. Some days the WOV forum has more moderators than new threads.
The greatest asset of this site is its active members. Without active members and interesting provocative posts, there is no content, there is no reason for people to visit this site. The moderators should be treating members like DarkOz and WizardofNothing as precious assets and they should be trying to attract more people like them and retain them as active members. Not suspending them for calling someone a troll or permanently banning them for a duplicate account. This is folly.
I agree that the site is rediculously over policed. I also agree that there is biased moderation to some extent. It does nothing but hurt the site overall, in my opinion. However, ownership does not seem to care and this is how they want to run things. It is thier house after all.
As someone who has been suspended numerous times justly at times or unjustly sometimes, in my opinion, I just think that you should do your time and move on without a bunch of look at me whining.
Quote: gordonm888I don't agree.
I like many things about the WOV forum -but I disagree with the policy and practice of frequent banning for "offenses" that I personally don't really give a hoot about. We lose valuable contributors to the WOV forum (which is a rather moribund site that needs more contributors).
1. There is an uneven-ness to the enforcement of the "no name-calling rule" that is simply undeniable. When rules are enforced un-evenly or arbitrarily, it provides the law enforcers (in this case the mods) the latitude to abuse their authority and punish people that irritate them in some way.
2. I don't like wizardofnothing much at all - we are usually on the opposite sides of arguments and I don't like the way in which he argues his positions. But I strongly disagree with his ban. Having duplicate accounts should be a warning first, then a series of graded suspensions for a limited time period. Nuking someone like wizardofnothing with a permanent ban for a duplicate account is folly. That is "FOLLY" -spelled F,O,L,L,Y.
3. In my opinion, DarkOz's suspension above was both wrong (because more insulting posts go unpunished all the time) and folly (because the health of the forum depends upon having members like DarkOz.)
Each and every time that the moderators are guilty of folly that injures the WOV forum, it is perfectly appropriate for members to speak up and criticize their actions. The WOV forum suspension policy and practices are extreme compared to other internet forums. The moderators' attempt to empty the WOV swamp of alligators went astray long ago, because they seemingly label every WOV forum member on their worst day as an alligator. So they depopulate the WOV forum to the point that it is an uninteresting site with about 5 new threads a day. Some days the WOV forum has more moderators than new threads.
The greatest asset of this site is its active members. Without active members and interesting provocative posts, there is no content, there is no reason for people to visit this site. The moderators should be treating members like DarkOz and WizardofNothing as precious assets and they should be trying to attract more people like them and retain them as active members. Not suspending them for calling someone a troll or permanently banning them for a duplicate account. This is folly.
Thank you sincerely gordon
There is definitely some irony in both myself and WON bring defended simultaneously. Unfortunately at this time i prefer not to go into details. Perhaps some time in the future when im more comfortable
All i will say is its possible altho i cant say for sure that there may be other circumstances regarding WON and his permanent ban
Out of the hordes of "patrons" there are some disciplined "AP's."
These are the folks who come close to the edge without quite crossing the line; they make their points and further their agenda while avoiding the ban-hammer.
It's a game.
Quote: MaxPenI think it is simpler to just do the time and come back without a bunch of crying.
Its about as simple as not chiming in at all but i prefer not to suggest that course of action to you
I pretty much stated myself in the OP that simply whining was not productive
Thats why it was so important for me to suggest the objective of there being an appeal process
Darkoz,
Maybe the mods didn't see that you were wearing a safety pin.
Quote: BozAs far as I know, and as always I’m open to correction, no one has died or has had their life negatively affected by a suspension or ban. Trust me you’ll live, it’s a online forum, not thermonuclear war.
Are you kidding? For 3 days i was on intravenous life support in the psychiatric unit
Quote: darkozAre you kidding? For 3 days i was on intravenous life support in the psychiatric unit
I don't believe you. IV's are seriously discouraged in the psychiatric unit. We do Electro Cunvulsive Therapy (ECT) treatments on patients, sometimes 3 times a week. They are not allowed to keep the IV in on the psych unit, and we have to restart it before every treatment.
But to the point... I agree with you. But it can't be good for you to put one more neuron to use on this subject. Just continue posting like you used to before the suspension.
Someday a real rain will come and wash the scrum off these streets.
Quote: darkozHi guys im back after a 3 day suspension for personally insulting a member
I want to thank RS for being the only person who understood i was going off memory of events from a year ago and not specifically hurling invective at q-fit. Not only did i state the words "if memory serves" but also "...defender of SOME gambling system OR PERSON. Im NOT SURE of the EXACT DETAIL" Endquote
But if it just came down to a misunderstanding of my using the word troll or trolling i would not complain (well maybe)
However mitigating circumstances are that i have been called a troll repeatedly on this forum in different threads and never was similar action taken
Here is the most glaring example. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/25612-a-ny-ap-move/2/
On page two both WON and GWAE accuse me of trolling and directly call me a troll
Note on page 3 the same moderator who suspended me for using the word troll corrects everyone by stating i am not trolling. Further down the page another mod BBB agrees
No suspensions were handed out for multiple pages of calling me a troll
This would lead anyone to believe that use of the word troll if that is genuinely your impression of someone (and even when the mods step in and correct those accusers) does not rise to the level of a suspension
I am sure some members will say that was under different circumstances. I disagree. That would leave it to forum members to decide when circumstances called for using the word troll or trolling as legitimate insult or excusable insult. Certainly that is not the intent of the mods
Combined with the mitigating circumstances that i was going off memory of events from over a year ago and that in nine (9) years of being on this forum i have never been suspended for hurling an insult while suffering this same insult being thrown at me repeatedly - I have to vociferously disagree with the punishment i was handed.
That said if the point of this thread was just to whine about something not reparable it wpuld be pointless. Instead i wish to add some constructive advice
More upsetting to me was being cut off even from discussing this with upper management. I understand in almost all cases mods decisions will be upheld but for there to be absolutely no way to plead ones case seems a bit disingenuous.
I propose there should at least be an open backdoor channel to the mod who did the suspension or perhaps to the Wizard for banned members. Any suspended member abusing that open channel can be cut off from it
To put it another way - if the United States can keep an open back door channel of communication with North Korea then i think WOV can keep an open backdoor channel of communication with suspended members
FYI, I never called you a troll. I said the thread aka writing was a troll thread. I don't think you are a troll and never said so. Maybe you accusing me publicly like this is ban worthy? A 7 day martingale is good enough.
Eta: isn't there a rule that this could be considered flooding since we already have a discussion about suspension thread. Make it 14 days.
Quote: darkozI want to thank RS for being the only person who understood i was going off memory of events from a year ago and not specifically hurling invective at q-fit.
No problem.
Something I've never agreed with, but it is the way it is -- this forum is moderated by technicalities. If I call you a troll, I get suspended. If I say you are trolling, this is a troll thread, etc. then I don't get suspended. If I call you stupid, I get suspended. If I say the things you write are stupid, I don't get suspended. If I call you a moron, I get suspended. if I say, "Are you a moron?" I don't get suspended. I think that's completely retarded and logically backwards -- suspensions should be based on intent, not technicalities on wordsmithing.
I agree, it's not the end of the world and you're not going to die if you get suspended from the forum, but I don't think that should mean people should have an attitude of "Who cares if it was fair or not, just take the suspension and be fine with it", at least in cases where the suspension was due from a misunderstanding and shouldn't have been applied. If it's right, it's right. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But if it's wrong, we shouldn't pretend it's right. If it's right, we shouldn't pretend it's wrong (ie: remember 1BB?).
Quote: MaxPenI think it is simpler to just do the time and come back without a bunch of crying.
Yes.
Quote: gordonm888I don't agree.
I like many things about the WOV forum -but I disagree with the policy and practice of frequent banning for "offenses" that I personally don't really give a hoot about. We lose valuable contributors to the WOV forum (which is a rather moribund site that needs more contributors).
1. There is an uneven-ness to the enforcement of the "no name-calling rule" that is simply undeniable. When rules are enforced un-evenly or arbitrarily, it provides the law enforcers (in this case the mods) the latitude to abuse their authority and punish people that irritate them in some way.
2. I don't like wizardofnothing much at all - we are usually on the opposite sides of arguments and I don't like the way in which he argues his positions. But I strongly disagree with his ban. Having duplicate accounts should be a warning first, then a series of graded suspensions for a limited time period. Nuking someone like wizardofnothing with a permanent ban for a duplicate account is folly. That is "FOLLY" -spelled F,O,L,L,Y.
3. In my opinion, DarkOz's suspension above was both wrong (because more insulting posts go unpunished all the time) and folly (because the health of the forum depends upon having members like DarkOz.)
Each and every time that the moderators are guilty of folly that injures the WOV forum, it is perfectly appropriate for members to speak up and criticize their actions. The WOV forum suspension policy and practices are extreme compared to other internet forums. The moderators' attempt to empty the WOV swamp of alligators went astray long ago, because they seemingly label every WOV forum member on their worst day as an alligator. So they depopulate the WOV forum to the point that it is an uninteresting site with about 5 new threads a day. Some days the WOV forum has more moderators than new threads.
The greatest asset of this site is its active members. Without active members and interesting provocative posts, there is no content, there is no reason for people to visit this site. The moderators should be treating members like DarkOz and WizardofNothing as precious assets and they should be trying to attract more people like them and retain them as active members. Not suspending them for calling someone a troll or permanently banning them for a duplicate account. This is folly.
OK, but here's the thing. Nobody is going to jail. They are being barred from posting on a forum for 3 days. If that feels like going to jail, then the ban is probably beneficial to you.
Most forums degenerate into tedious and nasty places where people snipe back and forth at eachother for years and eventually drive away anybody who isn't in to that. While I don't agree with every ban, this forum has remained a fairly pleasant and productive one.
Think about it this way. The distribution of traffic tickets is far from perfect. Sometimes you get a ticket for going 75 and another guy just went by at 90. Sometimes you didn't even do the thing you were accused of, or the rule was ridiculous, like a no right turn on red sign there for no reason. Women can cry, flirt and whine their way out of tickets. etc. etc. But it's way better than nobody getting tickets.
And, in theory, most tickets are supposed to be slaps on the wrist. (In reality they can be a week's pay for some people now, but that's another story). It's not the end of the world. You get a ticket for rolling through a stop sign at 3am, you get to bitch about it a little, but then you move on with your life because that's just how things are and they aren't so bad.
So, keeping the forum active is a two way street. Yeah, if the mods go nuking people over nothing, the forum dies. But the posters also need to be mature, perhaps a try to de-sperg a little, and realize that no system is perfect and they are being presented with a cool forum to use and if something doesn't go their way, it's not that big a deal and the whole situation remains +ev.
Quote: RigondeauxYes.
Quote: gordonm888I don't agree.
I like many things about the WOV forum -but I disagree with the policy and practice of frequent banning for "offenses" that I personally don't really give a hoot about. We lose valuable contributors to the WOV forum (which is a rather moribund site that needs more contributors).
1. There is an uneven-ness to the enforcement of the "no name-calling rule" that is simply undeniable. When rules are enforced un-evenly or arbitrarily, it provides the law enforcers (in this case the mods) the latitude to abuse their authority and punish people that irritate them in some way.
2. I don't like wizardofnothing much at all - we are usually on the opposite sides of arguments and I don't like the way in which he argues his positions. But I strongly disagree with his ban. Having duplicate accounts should be a warning first, then a series of graded suspensions for a limited time period. Nuking someone like wizardofnothing with a permanent ban for a duplicate account is folly. That is "FOLLY" -spelled F,O,L,L,Y.
3. In my opinion, DarkOz's suspension above was both wrong (because more insulting posts go unpunished all the time) and folly (because the health of the forum depends upon having members like DarkOz.)
Each and every time that the moderators are guilty of folly that injures the WOV forum, it is perfectly appropriate for members to speak up and criticize their actions. The WOV forum suspension policy and practices are extreme compared to other internet forums. The moderators' attempt to empty the WOV swamp of alligators went astray long ago, because they seemingly label every WOV forum member on their worst day as an alligator. So they depopulate the WOV forum to the point that it is an uninteresting site with about 5 new threads a day. Some days the WOV forum has more moderators than new threads.
The greatest asset of this site is its active members. Without active members and interesting provocative posts, there is no content, there is no reason for people to visit this site. The moderators should be treating members like DarkOz and WizardofNothing as precious assets and they should be trying to attract more people like them and retain them as active members. Not suspending them for calling someone a troll or permanently banning them for a duplicate account. This is folly.
OK, but here's the thing. Nobody is going to jail. They are being barred from posting on a forum for 3 days. If that feels like going to jail, then the ban is probably beneficial to you.
Most forums degenerate into tedious and nasty places where people snipe back and forth at eachother for years and eventually drive away anybody who isn't in to that. While I don't agree with every ban, this forum has remained a fairly pleasant and productive one.
Think about it this way. The distribution of traffic tickets is far from perfect. Sometimes you get a ticket for going 75 and another guy just went by at 90. Sometimes you didn't even do the thing you were accused of, or the rule was ridiculous, like a no right turn on red sign there for no reason. Women can cry, flirt and whine their way out of tickets. etc. etc. But it's way better than nobody getting tickets.
And, in theory, most tickets are supposed to be slaps on the wrist. (In reality they can be a week's pay for some people now, but that's another story). It's not the end of the world. You get a ticket for rolling through a stop sign at 3am, you get to bitch about it a little, but then you move on with your life because that's just how things are and they aren't so bad.
So, keeping the forum active is a two way street. Yeah, if the mods go nuking people over nothing, the forum dies. But the posters also need to be mature, perhaps a try to de-sperg a little, and realize that no system is perfect and they are being presented with a cool forum to use and if something doesn't go their way, it's not that big a deal and the whole situation remains +ev.
Yes because we all know everyone accepts their parking tickets without question and has no way of pleading their case in court
Quote: darkoz
Yes because we all know everyone accepts their parking tickets without question and has no way of pleading their case in court
I take mine to the crooked attorney in the pink building. I pay him some cash to have his private court date with the crooked county judge. Everything is reduced to no consequence and I pay a county extortion fee and move on.
Much more difficult than remaining quiet for a few days but same result.
r. Dangerfield.
It went something like this, "Poster one " The guy could have been trying to hide his Jackpot because he could have alimony payments. I don't even know what alimony is, but it sounds awful. " I responded something like, "Alimony is what you pay your ex spouse after a divorce. I've always hated the idea of alimony. Why should I have to financially support an ADULT that I am no longer legally bonded to anymore? Especially if the reason I we are divorced is because my ex spouse CHEATED on me? So I have to pay someone who CHEATED on me? That's really messed up!"
Poster 2 mentioned alimony saying something like,"If I had alimony payments, I would try to hide my Jackpot. " I said,"Alimony sucks! It should be outlawed! " I was suspended for two weeks for posting twice about alimony after this post. In fact, when I saw the "You have been suspended for two weeks" part I thought it was another poster who had been suspended (I hadn't read the whole post at first), and wondered,"Who is the poster who got suspended for two weeks? " and I remember thinking,"I know it's not me because I haven't posted anything offensive, insulting, or inappropriate. " I read in horror the whole post and immediately thought,"Oh crap! How the hell did my innocent responses about alimony cause me to be suspended for two weeks?! A poster stuck up for me saying, "Nathan doesn't deserve a two week suspension! Nathan was innocently responding to two other people who brought up alimony! This is one of the most unfair suspensions of all time on this forum!" The suspension stuck however. Boo! :(
Things like multiple accounts have always been strictly banned and should be. And while I don't agree with everything that the Moderators do, so what? It's Mike's house.
I’ve also never been banned from the forum. There’s pretty much one simple rule here that isn’t hard to follow: don’t be a d*ck.
If you really really can’t move on with your life without being a d*ck in an internet argument, just say it and take the ban and don’t whine about it. Or find another forum. Or get super hydrated, pump up the electrolytes, and shoot some craps.
Quote: gamerfreakI’ve never gotten a speeding ticket, or even pulled over. Maybe my pastey white skin as something to do with it, but I mostly chalk it up to the fact that I don’t speed, ever.
I’ve also never been banned from the forum. There’s pretty much one simple rule here that isn’t hard to follow: don’t be a d*ck.
If you really really can’t move on with your life without being a d*ck in an internet argument, just say it and take the ban and don’t whine about it. Or find another forum. Or get super hydrated, pump up the electrolytes, and shoot some craps.
It's hard not to feel resentful when you've been suspended before for two weeks for responding to two separate people's posts on alimony!
Just make a rambling dissertation in the DATSL if you're upset , and maybe they will give you a credit in the future if you're convincing.
You get what you pay for, you know.
The rule that I don't understand is PG-only language. Casinos/Vegas are inherently not PG, and there's quite a few non-PG discussions (or even official articles) discussed here. I think everyone here is an adult (at least as far as age goes), so what is the difference between writing masked F##ck's and Sh#t's rather than the full word?
Quote: gamerfreakI think the no personal insult rule keeps this forum pretty civil, and I personally feel the rule is enforced fairly equally. Of course the people who get banned aren't always going to feel that way, but that's how these things always go.
The rule that I don't understand is PG-only language. Casinos/Vegas are inherently not PG, and there's quite a few non-PG discussions (or even official articles) discussed here. I think everyone here is an adult (at least as far as age goes), so what is the difference between writing masked F##ck's and Sh#t's rather than the full word?
Personally, I kinda prefer the no-swearing rule and other forums with that rule as well. Some forums where that rule doesn't exist, it can feel like a cess pit where everyone's swearing n stuff and it looks kinda trashy TBH. I also think it helps keep the place more civil, in a way.
If the moderators happen to toss in some unfair suspensions here and there, it's probably a good thing, it might keep some people on their toes, perhaps members will think twice before posting something unsavory.
If it makes you feel any better grab your favorite hobo bag, hold it tight and tell yourself.... it's just an internet forum, it's just an internet forum, it's just an internet forum.
That's also common among serial killers. ☺Quote: gamerfreakI’ve never gotten a speeding ticket, or even pulled over.
Quote: gamerfreak
The rule that I don't understand is PG-only language. Casinos/Vegas are inherently not PG, and there's quite a few non-PG discussions (or even official articles) discussed here. I think everyone here is an adult (at least as far as age goes), so what is the difference between writing masked F##ck's and Sh#t's rather than the full word?
Google search-ability, I'm guessing. Prior to the current incarnation of, "Keep it PG," there was a similarly-titled rule that was essentially that, but with a little bit more leeway. Essentially, you could use that sort of language if it was for the purposes of emphasizing a point, or something along those lines, but you couldn't say it just to say it. Included in that rule was that nothing could be too graphic along sexual or violent lines (I think) or anything like that.
Ignoring the Google Search stuff, I preferred the old rule...which I only say because I said that at the time.
If you are referring to any of my articles, I actually go out of my way to keep it somewhat constrained. I'm much more blue (only occasionally, of course) in my LCB articles.
If you brought up your disagreement with the Suspension shortly after it happened, then consider it asked and answered and quit whining about it now. If you did not bring it up at that time, then I might entertain a discussion on it depending on when it happened.
I'm going to need a link, though. The most recent one I see was for seven days and wasn't for that reason. Further, you probably got 14 days pursuant to our Martingale standard, not specifically because of the severity of the offense.
It is a valid point that there should be a channel to appeal a ban while it is in effect. However, rarely does anyone agree with their own banning and we mods are not eager to spend the time debating each one. At least I'm not. If it was an extremely egregious ban, other members will probably voice their disapproval and we mods may discuss it internally.
If it's me who gave the suspension, I can be reached at DT most of the time. There is no longer a ban at one site is an automatic ban at both policy (although it isn't necessary not the case. It's taken on a case by case basis what few times it is an issue), so anyone is welcome to reach me there.
Finally, if the new owners ask me to relax on the rules, I will. Otherwise, I think the current rules are reasonable. Any lady or gentleman should be able to easily abide by them.
Quote: RSPersonally, I kinda prefer the no-swearing rule and other forums with that rule as well. Some forums where that rule doesn't exist, it can feel like a cess pit where everyone's swearing n stuff and it looks kinda trashy TBH. I also think it helps keep the place more civil, in a way.
Speaking of cess pit, I always pegged you as a 4chan /pol/ user given your meme IQ, political posts, nyan cat, etc etc etc
Quote: Mission146Google search-ability, I'm guessing. Prior to the current incarnation of, "Keep it PG," there was a similarly-titled rule that was essentially that, but with a little bit more leeway. Essentially, you could use that sort of language if it was for the purposes of emphasizing a point, or something along those lines, but you couldn't say it just to say it. Included in that rule was that nothing could be too graphic along sexual or violent lines (I think) or anything like that.
Ignoring the Google Search stuff, I preferred the old rule...which I only say because I said that at the time.
If you are referring to any of my articles, I actually go out of my way to keep it somewhat constrained. I'm much more blue (only occasionally, of course) in my LCB articles.
I've never heard of google specifically docking a site due to profanity, but who knows.
Mostly referring to this article.
I guess it prevents people from spewing needlessly profane F this S that rants, but I just think a PG rule in a forum set up to discuss non-PG subject matter is a little strange.
Quote: Mission146Nathan,
If you brought up your disagreement with the Suspension shortly after it happened, then consider it asked and answered and quit whining about it now. If you did not bring it up at that time, then I might entertain a discussion on it depending on when it happened.
I'm going to need a link, though. The most recent one I see was for seven days and wasn't for that reason. Further, you probably got 14 days pursuant to our Martingale standard, not specifically because of the severity of the offense.
Nathan,
You did get fourteen days because of the Martingale standard. Being the nice guy that I am, I decided to go back and look for the offending post for you, plus all I had to do was search, "Nathan AND Alimony," and that was easy enough.
I refuse to otherwise review it because it was over half a year ago AND I was not the one who did it. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, no mention of it was made in the Suspension List discussion and no separate thread created under, "Rules," which is as far as I am looking. Finally, you do not appear to have contested the Suspension in that thread upon returning.
If you sent me a PM complaining about it, I do not recall that, either. If you did, feel free to resend it and I will address you via PM.
Quote: WizardMuch like getting a speeding ticket, there is an element of randomness to it. If you don't want to risk it, then don't break the rules.
Not really an accurate example. Speeders are speeding. However, there have been many users banned for not violating rules just being on the wrong side of a mod's political bend.
Quote: WizardIf it was an extremely egregious ban, other members will probably voice their disapproval and we mods may discuss it internally.
This may be true but i was banned and many disagreed with it. I tired to appeal and let's just say it's a fact no one will stand up for the user against another mod. So yea you may discuss it but the truth is it's a dog and pony show because the ban will never be overturned no matter how incorrect it was in the first place.
Quote: gamerfreakSpeaking of cess pit, I always pegged you as a 4chan /pol/ user given your meme IQ, political posts, nyan cat, etc etc etc
I don't understand how 4chan works it's all confusing. And whenever I go to it, I end up seeing pictures of like
Same thing with reddit, although reddit is mostly just completely retarded. Some of the posts are funny, to be fair - but for the most part, much of the top-upvoted stuff is just stupid, and the stuff that isn't that much upvoted is much better. Lots there don't have an actual sense of humor and get offended over nothing.
But yes, I do pride myself in my meme (pronounced mee-mee) IQ and knowing what's going on in the world, both with memes, youtube, and other important enternet stuff.
Quote: Homelessnyc
This may be true but i was banned and many disagreed with it. I tired to appeal and let's just say it's a fact no one will stand up for the user against another mod. So yea you may discuss it but the truth is it's a dog and pony show because the ban will never be overturned no matter how incorrect it was in the first place.
I'm going to disagree with that on the grounds that bans have been modified and/or overturned in the past on more than zero occasions. I disagree with the second sentence because that is why we have a thread specifically for that reason, so that people can do that, if they choose.
Just because we didn't end up overturning your personal suspension doesn't mean we never do it. I've never won top prize in a casino drawing (have in a slot tournament, though) but that doesn't mean nobody ever does. As far as politics, if your ban came by way of any politics thread, I have completely abstained from Administrating those threads unless directly asked to make/review a decision. I sometimes decline even when that happens.
Quote: RSI don't understand how 4chan works it's all confusing. And whenever I go to it, I end up seeing pictures of like
big black "chickens" and weird porno stuffs and people throwing cats into rivers n sh**. I'm like nahhhh,
Same thing with reddit, although reddit is mostly just completely retarded. Some of the posts are funny, to be fair - but for the most part, much of the top-upvoted stuff is just stupid, and the stuff that isn't that much upvoted is much better. Lots there don't have an actual sense of humor and get offended over nothing.
But yes, I do pride myself in my meme (pronounced mee-mee) IQ and knowing what's going on in the world, both with memes, youtube, and other important enternet stuff.Check out the "poop knife" story on r/confessions IIRC, it's actually good.
I don't understand 4chan much either, all I know is that it's the true sh*thole of the internet. I like reddit quite a bit though. The trick if you don't like the default subs is to make an account and sub the subreddits you like and unsub the ones you don't.
Poop knife is great though.
Quote: Mission146I'm going to disagree with that on the grounds that bans have been modified and/or overturned in the past on more than zero occasions. I disagree with the second sentence because that is why we have a thread specifically for that reason, so that people can do that, if they choose.
Just because we didn't end up overturning your personal suspension doesn't mean we never do it. I've never won top prize in a casino drawing (have in a slot tournament, though) but that doesn't mean nobody ever does. As far as politics, if your ban came by way of any politics thread, I have completely abstained from Administrating those threads unless directly asked to make/review a decision. I sometimes decline even when that happens.
Disagree all you like you are free to.
Your "never won top prize" reasoning shows me that there will be no having a useful converstation with you on this topic.
It's a fact you have bias mods here who ban people without a valid reason and will refuse to ban people who have broke the rules all because of his or her political views
Quote: HomelessnycIt's a fact you have bias mods here who ban people without a valid reason and will refuse to ban people who have broke the rules all because of his or her political views
Yeah, the world just ain't fair, is it?
Put your complaint in perspective.
The taliban just killed a bunch of westerners in Kabul "without a valid reason ... all because of his or her political views."
The world is going to hell in a hand basket; accept it and move on.
Quote: boymimboI think everyone needs to understand that this is Mike's house. He built it, gave jobs to the moderators, and it is well-maintained. We don't have to be here. I've been banned before, and I'll be banned again. So what?
Things like multiple accounts have always been strictly banned and should be. And while I don't agree with everything that the Moderators do, so what? It's Mike's house.
Sorry, the above post is wrong on several levels. Of course, this is a site that Mike started, sold to his employer and works at. No one is challenging the authority that Mike and his fellow administrators have to ban people. It is NOT a question of authority, No one is questioning authority. This is Mike's House.
But it also can be Mike's "Empty House." Because Mike needs contributors, and all of us who contribute to the site have a stake in assuring that the site's moderators do not depopulate the site with a "final policy" of contributor-cide.
We are questioning
1. the wisdom/folly of the banning rules
2. the fairness/arbitrariness of the enforcement practices
3. the lack of grace shown to long-time loyal contributors over momentary, nitpicking lapses in the wording of a post
4. the damage to the forum being caused by permanent banning and short-term suspensions of active members
This is a perfectly appropriate dialogue that is undertaken in the hope that Mike and Babs and others will change and grow and become better and wiser administrators. Nothing wrong here, boymimbo.
And if you think I am inflating the issue, perhaps Mike could post for us a metric on WOV site usage, say a yearly average number of forum posts per day, for the years 2011 to 2017.
Quote: HomelessnycQuote: Mission146I'm going to disagree with that on the grounds that bans have been modified and/or overturned in the past on more than zero occasions. I disagree with the second sentence because that is why we have a thread specifically for that reason, so that people can do that, if they choose.
Just because we didn't end up overturning your personal suspension doesn't mean we never do it. I've never won top prize in a casino drawing (have in a slot tournament, though) but that doesn't mean nobody ever does. As far as politics, if your ban came by way of any politics thread, I have completely abstained from Administrating those threads unless directly asked to make/review a decision. I sometimes decline even when that happens.
Disagree all you like you are free to.
Your "never won top prize" reasoning shows me that there will be no having a useful converstation with you on this topic.
It's a fact you have bias mods here who ban people without a valid reason and will refuse to ban people who have broke the rules all because of his or her political views
What world do you live in where you get everything you want, everything is fair and every rule is enforced by the letter in every situation? Grow up. Nobody is forcing you to visit here. Want to go to a better forum? Do it. Want to start one you think is more fair? Do it.
I've been suspended. I didn't agree. So what. It's an internet forum.
ZCore13
Quote: MrVYeah, the world just ain't fair, is it?
Put your complaint in perspective.
The taliban just killed a bunch of westerners in Kabul "without a valid reason ... all because of his or her political views."
The world is going to hell in a hand basket; accept it and move on.
Unlike you i don't roll over and take it. That attitude is what is wrong with the world. If it works for you I'm happy for you.
Thanks for your two cents though.
Quote: Zcore13Quote: HomelessnycQuote: Mission146I'm going to disagree with that on the grounds that bans have been modified and/or overturned in the past on more than zero occasions. I disagree with the second sentence because that is why we have a thread specifically for that reason, so that people can do that, if they choose.
Just because we didn't end up overturning your personal suspension doesn't mean we never do it. I've never won top prize in a casino drawing (have in a slot tournament, though) but that doesn't mean nobody ever does. As far as politics, if your ban came by way of any politics thread, I have completely abstained from Administrating those threads unless directly asked to make/review a decision. I sometimes decline even when that happens.
Disagree all you like you are free to.
Your "never won top prize" reasoning shows me that there will be no having a useful converstation with you on this topic.
It's a fact you have bias mods here who ban people without a valid reason and will refuse to ban people who have broke the rules all because of his or her political views
What world do you live in where you get everything you want, everything is fair and every rule is enforced by the letter in every situation? Grow up. Nobody is forcing you to visit here. Want to go to a better forum? Do it. Want to start one you think is more fair? Do it.
I've been suspended. I didn't agree. So what. It's an internet forum.
ZCore13
Amazing two users both making assumption in their reply. Next time use facts.
Grow up? Take your own advice. Nothing i wrote warrants "growing up".
You've been suspended before looks like with this post you will be repeating that.
Really looks like the truth is making people butthurt. Great to see.
Quote: gordonm888Sorry, the above post is wrong on several levels. Of course, this is a site that Mike started, sold to his employer and works at. No one is challenging the authority that Mike and his fellow administrators have to ban people. It is NOT a question of authority, No one is questioning authority. This is Mike's House.
But it also can be Mike's "Empty House." Because Mike needs contributors, and all of us who contribute to the site have a stake in assuring that the site's moderators do not depopulate the site with a "final policy" of contributor-cide.
We are questioning
1. the wisdom/folly of the banning rules
2. the fairness/arbitrariness of the enforcement practices
3. the lack of grace shown to long-time loyal contributors over momentary, nitpicking lapses in the wording of a post
4. the damage to the forum being caused by permanent banning and short-term suspensions of active members
This is a perfectly appropriate dialogue that is undertaken in the hope that Mike and Babs and others will change and grow and become better and wiser administrators. Nothing wrong here, boymimbo.
And if you think I am inflating the issue, perhaps Mike could post for us a metric on WOV site usage, say a yearly average number of forum posts per day, for the years 2011 to 2017.
You don't speak for me, or probably most people.
For a forum on one subject to even last and still be active after 9 years is pretty amazing.
Momentary lapses will get you in trouble all through life. Doesn't matter who you are. Momentary lapse of drinking and then driving could get you thrown in jail. Momentary lapse of anger could cost you your life. Momentary lapse of judgement at work could cost you your job. Stop making excuses for people or yourself and take responsibility for any momentary lapses.
There's more delusion to address in your post, but I'm board with it already.
ZCore13
