About welcoming new members
It shocks me as in total contradiction with what you see on Mike's other site, WizardOfOdds, where he has the habit of answering very kindly to most requests -- even stupid ones, even sometime far removed from what the site was about.
Please consider that many people first visit the WoO site. They find a treasure trove of information, want to congratulate/thank Mike and/or ask him a question. Nowadays, they are redirected to this forum. So, it is totally normal and expected that they sometimes ask, uhh, 'improbable' questions. I would find it so much more nice if the (older) members had a bit more understanding and welcoming.
Maybe one should distinguish 'discussion' forums and 'question' forums?
Maybe a new rule should be written about the behaviour towards newbies, and a punishment for abusive sarcasm or meanness?
Quote: kubikulannIt has now been more than a few threads where some person, first-time poster, asks some question and receives a deluge of sarcasm and abuse. In several case this has led to their reacting offended and be banned for insult or profanity. But are they the guilty?
It shocks me as in total contradiction with what you see on Mike's other site, WizardOfOdds, where he has the habit of answering very kindly to most requests -- even stupid ones, even sometime far removed from what the site was about.
Please consider that many people first visit the WoO site. They find a treasure trove of information, want to congratulate/thank Mike and/or ask him a question. Nowadays, they are redirected to this forum. So, it is totally normal and expected that they sometimes ask, uhh, 'improbable' questions. I would find it so much more nice if the (older) members had a bit more understanding and welcoming.
Maybe one should distinguish 'discussion' forums and 'question' forums?
Maybe a new rule should be written about the behaviour towards newbies, and a punishment for abusive sarcasm or meanness?
Some newbies are so hopeful when they join...... here's my favorite opening salvo by a newbie......"I know you can never win in the long run but....." They put the qualifier in to avoid getting a severe beat down by the usual suspects. They probably lurked for some time before weighing in.......
I came in without reading the rules.....did not work out well for me.
I vote for fewer rules not more......without sarcasm and meanness there would be no WoV
Sure! I just mean "abusive" (in the meaning of "excessive", too) and specifically directed at naive newbies.Quote: treetopbuddyI vote for fewer rules not more......without sarcasm and meanness there would be no WoV
Quote: kubikulannIt has now been more than a few threads where some person, first-time poster, asks some question and receives a deluge of sarcasm and abuse. In several case this has led to their reacting offended and be banned for insult or profanity. But are they the guilty?
It shocks me as in total contradiction with what you see on Mike's other site, WizardOfOdds, where he has the habit of answering very kindly to most requests -- even stupid ones, even sometime far removed from what the site was about.
Please consider that many people first visit the WoO site. They find a treasure trove of information, want to congratulate/thank Mike and/or ask him a question. Nowadays, they are redirected to this forum. So, it is totally normal and expected that they sometimes ask, uhh, 'improbable' questions. I would find it so much more nice if the (older) members had a bit more understanding and welcoming.
Maybe one should distinguish 'discussion' forums and 'question' forums?
Maybe a new rule should be written about the behaviour towards newbies, and a punishment for abusive sarcasm or meanness?
I am so glad that you posted this as it has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time and I have mentioned it a few times. In my opinion it is shameful that a new member is welcomed with condescendence, mockery, ridicule and immature comments more befitting a fifth grader. Who are we to judge which questions are worthy of an answer? If you don't like the umpteenth martingale question you don't have to answer it. There's always someone who will answer in a respectful manner.
I have a few recommendations for new members that I wish they could read before joining.
1. Read the Forum Rules.
2. Read them again.
3. Use the search function of this site before asking your question if applicable.
4. Ask your question.
"There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question. - Carl Sagan
Quote: 1BBQuote: kubikulannIt has now been more than a few threads where some person, first-time poster, asks some question and receives a deluge of sarcasm and abuse. In several case this has led to their reacting offended and be banned for insult or profanity. But are they the guilty?
It shocks me as in total contradiction with what you see on Mike's other site, WizardOfOdds, where he has the habit of answering very kindly to most requests -- even stupid ones, even sometime far removed from what the site was about.
Please consider that many people first visit the WoO site. They find a treasure trove of information, want to congratulate/thank Mike and/or ask him a question. Nowadays, they are redirected to this forum. So, it is totally normal and expected that they sometimes ask, uhh, 'improbable' questions. I would find it so much more nice if the (older) members had a bit more understanding and welcoming.
Maybe one should distinguish 'discussion' forums and 'question' forums?
Maybe a new rule should be written about the behaviour towards newbies, and a punishment for abusive sarcasm or meanness?
I am so glad that you posted this as it has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time and I have mentioned it a few times. In my opinion it is shameful that a new member is welcomed with condescendence, mockery, ridicule and immature comments more befitting a fifth grader. Who are we to judge which questions are worthy of an answer? If you don't like the umpteenth martingale question you don't have to answer it. There's always someone who will answer in a respectful manner.
+1000
As a teacher,to the students who begin with "I have a silly question..." I always say "There are no silly questions, only silly answers."Quote: 1BB"There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question. - Carl Sagan
Quote: kubikulannIt has now been more than a few threads where some person, first-time poster, asks some question and receives a deluge of sarcasm and abuse. In several case this has led to their reacting offended and be banned for insult or profanity. But are they the guilty?
It shocks me as in total contradiction with what you see on Mike's other site, WizardOfOdds, where he has the habit of answering very kindly to most requests -- even stupid ones, even sometime far removed from what the site was about.
Please consider that many people first visit the WoO site. They find a treasure trove of information, want to congratulate/thank Mike and/or ask him a question. Nowadays, they are redirected to this forum. So, it is totally normal and expected that they sometimes ask, uhh, 'improbable' questions. I would find it so much more nice if the (older) members had a bit more understanding and welcoming.
Maybe one should distinguish 'discussion' forums and 'question' forums?
Maybe a new rule should be written about the behaviour towards newbies, and a punishment for abusive sarcasm or meanness?
Just ask them to post a picture first, and then see what happens..
SFB
And these are the people this forum needs ?
REALLY !
LOLQuote: BuzzardSo some newbies see criticism and immediately result to insults and profanities.
And these are the people this forum needs ?
food supply in the coming Apocalypse.
Quote: kubikulannAs a teacher,to the students who begin with "I have a silly question..." I always say "There are no silly questions, only silly answers."
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people...
Everyone who registeres here has the right to ask a question and interact with other posters as long as they follow the rules.
We should not be chasing anybody away because perhaps one of them might actually have found the missing "system" we have been searching for since Noah climbed aboard that big wooden boat of his........
NAHHHHH who am I kidding :)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThere are no stupid questions..
I disagree. There are stupid questions, and silly
ones as well. And if you ask them in public you
will be looked at as silly and stupid. This is an
indisputable fact.
Is Bigfoot real is a good question.
What does Bigfoot eat is a stupid question. So
is what do Unicorns eat. Neither are real creatures.
People ask stupid questions all the time.
Quote: EvenBobPeople ask stupid questions all the time.
.....Bob what does your name mean??? :)
Quote: Tomspur.....Bob what does your name mean??? :)
I don't remember anymore. I had a reason at
the time, though.
Quote: EvenBobI don't remember anymore. I had a reason at
the time, though.
That's what happens if you have more than 14k posts.....you tend to forget things :)
Could it be from the movie "What about Bob?" I could swear the daughter mouths the words "even bob" during the argument in the park when Dr. Leo Marvin brings the dolls to talk with her.Quote: EvenBobI don't remember anymore. I had a reason at
the time, though.
Bob Wiley kind of does fit you well in some way.
Quote: Tomspur.....Bob what does your name mean??? :)
I think it's his secret roulette betting system. He pretends to bet on red or black, but that's just to throw us off. Actually he either bets on even, or doesn't bet.
Well, one way to view my concern is, precisely, to differentiate between "one-time people who want to ask a question to the Wizard", and "newbie candidates for becoming members". Maybe the forum doesn't need the later ones, but there should be a place for questions by those who have no intention of becoming a regular member.Quote: BuzzardSo some newbies see criticism and immediately result to insults and profanities.
And these are the people this forum needs ?
REALLY !
Quote: MoosetonWhen "quality" members join here, they don't get hazed. Just depends if your posts are quality or not.
That's very true. New members who write good, thoughtful, intelligent posts rarely, if ever, receive a negative response.
If we are insulting someone they are not there to unch the insulters lights out.
I don't fight and I am not a violent person,but get in my face and talk trash and see what kind of actions are probable.
Most people that value their health try to refrain from picking fights.
So would you walk around the real world and insult and talk trash to random people?I think not.
You know sometime in life you pick someone that shouldn't be messed with.
I'm not saying it's right, But this isn't "the real world"Quote: KB1The thing is we are on the internet and the only accountability is to be punished by the admins.
If we are insulting someone they are not there to unch the insulters lights out.
I don't fight and I am not a violent person,but get in my face and talk trash and see what kind of actions are probable.
Most people that value their health try to refrain from picking fights.
So would you walk around the real world and insult and talk trash to random people?I think not.
You know sometime in life you pick someone that shouldn't be messed with.
Unfortunately, this is more of a, ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer kind of place,then a, no question is a dumb question kind of place.
No, but if I came across a real-life varmenti who spouted off, I sure would.Quote: KB1So would you walk around the real world and insult and talk trash to random people?
(Then again, people are less likely to ask really dumb questions in real life compared to the internet, so it's a moot point)
+1Quote: BuzzardMost of the arguments start when a "newbie" does not agree with the answer given !
That is so true. It amazes me when newbies come here, ask a question, and then argue with people who give them good, accurate answers!
Quote: BuzzardMost of the arguments start when a "newbie" does not agree with the answer given !
And we let them live??? The horror!
Seriously, there is a tendency by members, of which I'm not entirely exempt, to display their superior gambling erudition by jumping on newbies with both feet. This in itself is bad enough as it creates a hostile environment. Worse, some proceed to kick the newbies when they're down.
I'm all for encouraging responsible gambling practices, and discouraging all systems as well (none of them can ever work). Systems are a modern incarnation of Sophistry, really, and only sueful as intellectual excercises. But Sophistry tends to seem to make sense. That's why people get taken in by systems, and why people keep devising new ones. But hostility towards those leaning that way is not how one gets them to climb off the their path. Consider, too, that promising a way to minimize losses, which is what responsible gambling is, doesn't sound terribly exciting when comapred with the system that will let you beat the casino.
When you respond to a newby's question, ask yourself what you're trying to accomplisha nd what effect you wish to have on them. Ask also how you look while answering. Then go ahead, but with both eyes open.
Quote: kubikulannIt has now been more than a few threads where some person, first-time poster, asks some question and receives a deluge of sarcasm and abuse. In several case this has led to their reacting offended and be banned for insult or profanity. But are they the guilty?
If their first reaction is profanity - are they really WoV material??? LOL
Quote: aceofspadesIf their first reaction is profanity - are they really WoV material??? LOL
Actually, they possibly are :)
Quote: FinsRuleThis is one of the reasons that I visit this site less than I did in the past...
Ideally everything about the site would be perfection, but if we rate on the combined criteria of information quality and courtesy level, WoV is the best on the net, and it's not even close. Nothing else compares, but please correct me if I missed a suitable alternative.
Quote: Dicenor33Gambling is about abuse. If you can not take punches you'll have a hard time on the floor. Get used to it.
Where on Earth do you play?
Most of my gambling sessions ahve been very pleasant, some delightful. I've never felt anything even distantly ressembling "abuse" at all. Maybe "AP" is about abuse. Don't confuse that with what the rest of the world does.
+1Quote: gpac1377if we rate on the combined criteria of information quality and courtesy level, WoV is the best on the net, and it's not even close. Nothing else compares
Totally agree. This is the most courteous forum on the internet.
I don't think you understand the intention of my post. Or maybe you didn't read it. (Yes, I attack you... since you seem to say that's what you're looking for! Get used to it!)Quote: Dicenor33Gambling is about abuse. If you can not take punches you'll have a hard time on the floor. Get used to it.
I am not talking about people who come to gamble, but to ask one question.
Sorry, but contrary to what some write in this thread, these persons do NOT receive an answer and then insist against all good sense. They don't receive an answer, they receive below-the-waist attacks. When, as a reaction, they tell you to go f*** yourself, I'm sure they don't care whether some of you think them worthy of this forum, because they deem US unworthy of their attention.
I care because it is the forum as a whole who gets the bad reputation of a few uneducated people.
And Finn, come-on, you are here less because you are I are about the only serious horse handicappers on the forum.
Quote: Dicenor33Among them are hard core players who did a lot thinking on how to beat the game. I might be wrong, but the purpose of the website is to help people who are already familiar with the subject.
You are very wrong.
Quote: BuzzardBeing educated does not make you a gentleman.
And Finn, come-on, you are here less because you are I are about the only serious horse handicappers on the forum.
That's not accurate!!!
Quote: kubikulannSorry, but contrary to what some write in this thread, these persons do NOT receive an answer and then insist against all good sense. They don't receive an answer, they receive below-the-waist attacks. When, as a reaction, they tell you to go f*** yourself, I'm sure they don't care whether some of you think them worthy of this forum, because they deem US unworthy of their attention.
I care because it is the forum as a whole who gets the bad reputation of a few uneducated people.
It's just common courtesy not to be rude right off to someone new. If that's their first impression of someone here, no wonder they react badly.
Quote: kubikulannI don't think you understand the intention of my post. Or maybe you didn't read it. (Yes, I attack you... since you seem to say that's what you're looking for! Get used to it!)
I am not talking about people who come to gamble, but to ask one question.
Sorry, but contrary to what some write in this thread, these persons do NOT receive an answer and then insist against all good sense. They don't receive an answer, they receive below-the-waist attacks. When, as a reaction, they tell you to go f*** yourself, I'm sure they don't care whether some of you think them worthy of this forum, because they deem US unworthy of their attention.
I care because it is the forum as a whole who gets the bad reputation of a few uneducated people.
Hear, hear!
This forum has definitely become "chummy" the longer I've been here, and that's okay, but assuming a brand new person wants a question they asked (even if it's an "easy" question) to be immediately greeted by a smartass remark is just bad form, and will run away posters that possibly could be valuable in the future. If it's a member that doesn't really belong here, they won't last long anyway.
