Parlay?

The following situation occurred at the dice table and led to a dispute. The player threw in two 5 dollar chips to the stickman and yelled hi/lo. The stickman then placed the two chips on the line separating the two boxes on the layout (1-1) and (6-6). The shooter then rolled a 12. The bettor then said 'parlay!'.
The dice were passed to the shooter and another 12 was rolled.
The questions are :
1) Does the placement of the bet on the line separating the 2 and 12 boxes have the same meaning as one chip in each box? and
2) The roll coming too fast for clarification, what was parlayed - the hi/lo or the 12?

1. I assume it means the bet is split evenly between the two boxes. In this case $2.50 on each the 2 and 12.
2. I'm not an expert on the procedure in craps but I would assume he meant to do the same thing again. In other words, split what he won from the first roll between the 2 and 12.

So, assuming the hard hops pay 30 for 1, he should have $2.50*30*1/2*30 = $1125.

What was in dispute?

I agree with the Wizard, except he appears to have missed that there were two $5 chips thrown in initially, so double the figures.

The dispute was - The house wanted to parlay the hi/lo so that the payout would be 1/2. Paying out only 2.50*30*1/2*30*1/2 as in your example.

Now I'm confused. Both the Wizard and I interpreted the wager as if the hi/low were parlayed. If the initial amount wagered had been $5, rather than the two $5 chips mentioned in the first post and my earlier comment, then $2.50 would have lost on the first roll (the 2) and the other $2.50 (the 12) would have been paid at 30 for 1 (assumed) giving a total of $2.50*30 available to be parlayed. If that is parlayed on the hi/low and the next roll is again 12, then the low wager would lose ($2.50*30*1/2) and the hi wager would win at 30 for 1 giving a total remaining of $2.50*30*1/2*30=$1,125 as the Wizard originally said. If the initial amount of the wager had been the two $5 chips originally mentioned, then the final amount would be $5*30*1/2*30=$2,250.

I don't see where the second 1/2 in your payout calculation comes from.

As to the confusion between the player and the stick man, if the player initially called for a hi/low but wanted to parlay on just the hi, then he/she needed to be more explicit as to what was wanted.

The usual assumption (by the house), when a player has multiple proposition wagers and hits on one of them, is that all of the previous wagers are to be kept in play, replacing the losing ones with part of the payout from the winner. If you only wish to keep the winning prop bet in play, you need to ask that the others come down on the payout. Extending this to the case of a parlay of a hi/low, I suspect every player would expect the money to be parlayed on hi/low. I would say the exception would be either a player who doesn't really understand how craps is played or a play who is trying to scam the house.

You said, "The house wanted to parlay the hi/lo...." Did the house concede and payout as if the full parlay had been on the high? Either they were being very generous or the scam worked.

So the question is:
Does "parlay" mean take my winnings and press the bet which just won or does it mean take the winnings and press the Bet that I had made.

Player claims: Hi Lo ... means make two bets Deuce and Twelve. And that "parlay" then means to press the bet that won, the Twelve, since the Deuce bet is now down.

House claims: Hi Lo... means make two bets Deuce and Twelve. And that "parlay" then means to put half the winnings on the Deuce and half the winnings on the Twelve.

Certainly there was a lack of explicit and unambiguous communication. A player can only press an existing bet and parlay means to take ALL the winnings to press the bet irrespective of normal betting units for a press.

So it goes to common usage in the industry... but what is that?

deleted post...

Thank you FS - better explained

Quote: docsjs

Thank you FS - better explained

Probably not "better" just longer winded.

The "hi lo" is shorthand for two separate bets. Dealers don't like "string bettors" and prefer a short hand notation anyway. Its "C and E" not Craps and Eleven. Since they are one-roll hop bets they do not survive: they either each go down or one goes down and the other hits. The one that hits is paid off but left standing unless contrary instructions are given such as Down or Press it. Press without any amount called out is Press by the minimum unit. Press by a specified amount means Press by the stated amount. Parlay means to press by All the winnings irrespective of units or breakage. So I would say that a dealer can only press a bet that is presently standing. And that he therefore can only press to the max the bet that is standing.

Yet a bet exists.. World Bet?? that is a way of making four simultaneous bets and often indicating which one is "heavy" in that any breakage then goes to the "heavy" one. Any "pressing" means to each of the four bets again.

Gad, I just don't know. I'd like to think this issue has arisen and been settled or else too many craps games would be delayed by needless disputes.

And dice dealers out there?????

After the first midnight hit, the dice should not have been released to the shooter until ALL the prop debts had been paid out and finalized.

Presumably the stick had paid off the $150 winnings on the hit, heard the instruction to "parlay," and placed the full winnings on the line between 1-1 and 6-6; if so, it is clear: hi / lo.

The player is charged with being responsible for making certain that the dealer set up the bet the way he wants it: he saw the stack on the line, why didn't he yell out "no, no, put it ALL on midnight?"

Could be just another douchebag "taking a shot" against the casino.

see next post

The stick moved the dice too fast. The payout was counted, but not yet placed on the layout. You are right, it is the player's responsibility to see that his bets are placed correctly, but they were not as yet placed. Yes, he was unclear when he said 'parlay' instead of parlay the 12 or parlay the hi/lo. There are some legitimate questions at the table without assuming the player is 'taking a shot' at the casino. All people can make mistakes - both dealers and players.

So, the dealer counted out the winnings, and the guy said "parlay" without anything more?

Seems simple to me: without asking for a different bet, e.g. "bet it ALL on midnight," the stickman would set it up as a hi / lo parlay, with 1/2 on 1-1, and 1/2 on 6-6.

I see no controversy.

Worst scenario is the dealer/stick/box declares "no bet" ... realizing the called bed is ambiguous.

Here's how I see it.

First, and perhaps most important, it is the bettor's responsibility to make sure that the chip are placed as intended.

Once the two chips are placed on the split line rather than one in each box, THAT is the type of bet. I.E. it's a single bet of two chips on the split line, and after a win, that is where the chips for the parlay goes. Ditto if the bettor says to press it $x.

That's assuming that the bettor did not give any other clarifying instructions.

First, the OP wrote that 2 $5 chips were tossed in, as a "hi-lo" bet and were placed on 1-1 and 12-12.
Second, the bet hit on the 12-12, and Parlay was called.

Here's the ambiguity: should the bet be $30 + $30, or should the bet be 0 on the 1-1 and $60 on the 12-12?

Most Houses here would have parlayed the bet $75 + $75 since that is the original (hi-lo) wager.
Therefore, upon the second consecutive 12-12, the hi-lo bet pays $2250.

If the $10 was placed "on the line" between the 1-1 and 12-12, the exact same result would occur.

98Clubs

Aside from the fact that you're saying "12-12" when you mean "6-6"...

Quote: 98Clubs

First, the OP wrote that 2 $5 chips were tossed in, as a "hi-lo" bet and were placed on 1-1 and 12-12.

The original post is very clear that two chips were tossed in for the "Hi/Lo", and that they were placed together on the split line between the two boxes. They were NOT separated into one chip for each box.

My last two trips to vegas I make this bet the first comeout each time I get the dice(I know its a terrible bet but I am here to gamble right? lol). OK, so I toss the stickman 3 whites and I say 2-way hi-lo parlay. Now I have never gotten to the best part of this bet (altho Ive been half-way there prob a dozen times or so). I under stand that the parlay would mean hi-lo again,but would the boys bet also mean parlay again? If I get lucky enough to get all the way there,my portion would be 450 and the boys would be 225. Do I have this right?

Quote: mdh

I under stand that the parlay would mean hi-lo again,but would the boys bet also mean parlay again?

If that is what you want / intend, then when you first make your bet for the boys, add "piggy-backed" and then they are slaved to you.

Otherwise, their winnings would normally be locked up after that first hit.

So say 2-way hi-lo parlay piggy-backed. Man the women are going to eat that up lol. Thanks for clearing that up MrV.

Quote: mdh

Man the women are going to eat that up lol.

Well now, if you want to stun the ladies, toss in a bet and say "Big Dick!"

That's a bet on Little Joe's brother, the hard ten.

For some reason (curse political correctness) you just don't hear people saying that, but the crew should understand it, and book the bet.

That is friggin HILARIOUS. I will try that, but I do play at EL-CORTEZ alot,will this be a problem? LOL

The meaning of Parlay to me is to press the bet JUST WON.

The bet that won is the High-Low, not a $5 12, $5 2. If the player called a $5 2, $5 12 (which is the same), then the 12 should get parlayed, with the 2 a loss.

My thought is that the player would have argued the other way had a 2 been rolled -- that instead of having $150 on the 12 and nothing on the 2, he should have had $75 on both the 2 and 12!

-- When you bet all the hard ways, and a hard number is rolled, and you Parlay, only that number is parlayed usually ($1 becomes $8 or $10 depending on the hard-way thrown)

-- When you bet $64 inside, and you say parlay when a number is hit, only the number that hit is upped with the balance going to the player (6 and 8 goes to $24 with $2 to the player, 5 and 9 go to $20 with $4 to the player, 4 and 10 should turn into $25 buys with $2/$3 to the player).

When the player doesn't make the bet clear, it's up to the casino to derive the intention of the player, and then settle disputes. Because the player didn't make the intention clear, it's up to them to make the distinction. To me, parlaying a high-lo bet won means to split the $75 on both bets. But the stick/box should have made that clear what the bet was before the dice was rolled.

Quote: docsjs

The following situation occurred at the dice table and led to a dispute. The player threw in two 5 dollar chips to the stickman and yelled hi/lo. The stickman then placed the two chips on the line separating the two boxes on the layout (1-1) and (6-6). The shooter then rolled a 12. The bettor then said 'parlay!'.
The dice were passed to the shooter and another 12 was rolled.
The questions are :
1) Does the placement of the bet on the line separating the 2 and 12 boxes have the same meaning as one chip in each box? and
2) The roll coming too fast for clarification, what was parlayed - the hi/lo or the 12?

I forgot about this thread until I saw the recent postings on it....

I asked three suits in the craps pit at the Borgata about this situation in January and all three agreed that the only bet that can be parlayed is the one that won. If the Stick didn't give time for the bet to be placed the way the player wanted it then the player gets the benefit of the doubt and the full pay occurs.

FWIW....

After reading these posts a little more carefully, I think I should pay attention to where the 30$ is placed when I get half-way there. I would be bummed if the 30$ were placed on the 12 and then the 2 was rolled next(assuming the 12 was rolled first). I want the 30$ to be placed on the line,is this correct?

Quote: mdh

After reading these posts a little more carefully, I think I should pay attention to where the 30$ is placed when I get half-way there. I would be bummed if the 30$ were placed on the 12 and then the 2 was rolled next(assuming the 12 was rolled first). I want the 30$ to be placed on the line,is this correct?

I make this bet and a horn bet only when my wife or I are shooting. For two reasons.

1. It's a horrible bet so it's not one to make on every shooter, but it is fun for us and adds greatly to the entertainment value of the game.

2. We can control the dice and make sure our bet was parlayed correctly before shooting again. We have had it set up wrong many times. One time was my fault though, and it's an easy mistake to make. I rolled 12 and said "parlay my horn and 12" because 12 was in my mind. I should have said "parlay my horn and hi/lo" the dealer should have caught it also but can't really blame them for not. It's only an issue really though if we play on vacation since most of the local dealers know that's what we do and would honor it anyway. I would have also only asked for half if by chance it rolled 12 again instead of 2.

Quote: boymimbo

The meaning of Parlay to me is to press the bet JUST WON.

The bet that won is the High-Low, not a $5 12, $5 2. If the player called a $5 2, $5 12 (which is the same), then the 12 should get parlayed, with the 2 a loss.

Bingo

Quote: MrV

Well now, if you want to stun the ladies, toss in a bet and say "Big Dick!"

That's a bet on Little Joe's brother, the hard ten.

For some reason (curse political correctness) you just don't hear people saying that, but the crew should understand it, and book the bet.

Man, I learn new dice terminology on this forum all the time, and it is awesome.

I never bet the hardways, but I may have to but the hard ten next time I'm in Vegas just to use this slang.