www.theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/03/thank-you-to-jean-scott.html
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/03/thank-you-to-jean-scott.htmlQuote: DeMangolink if possible please!
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/03/gamblers-eye-coronavirus.html
(Mod edit to fix the link)
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-individual-exceptionalism.html
Quote: DeMangoTens of thousands will still die. The flattened curve will just spread it out. And if we keep certain segments of this country shut down, soon there will be no country with all the bankruptcies and resultant loss of jobs.
All correct. But by flattening the curve thousands, maybe tens of thousands will he saved. As soon as the peak is over here it will be interesting to see the pressure mount to reopen. Even when medically it will not make sense yet. At some point economically trumps medically.
Quote: SOOPOOAll correct. But by flattening the curve thousands, maybe tens of thousands will he saved. As soon as the peak is over here it will be interesting to see the pressure mount to reopen. Even when medically it will not make sense yet. At some point economically trumps medically.
We are spreading the curve, managing infections and deaths over time. The peak is over and Wuhan is reopening. We could eliminate automobiles, cigarettes and sugar in our bodies, amongst other things, and and the short term gain would be a dramatic drop in deaths from those causes. This makes the medical sense you mention.
We are going to have to restart the economy that has been shut down. Sooner than later. More Nanny state is assured but assured destruction awaits the longer the new normal is not implemented.
Quote: DeMangoTens of thousands will still die. The flattened curve will just spread it out. And if we keep certain segments of this country shut down, soon there will be no country with all the bankruptcies and resultant loss of jobs.
I think you're missing the point of the flattening. There's a resource-restricted mortality that can be avoided, and it is significant. I find it fascinating that people are trying to define the United States as a particular thing, namely a collection of capitalist enterprises. There is no law of nature that says the United States must not be like Switzerland or Germany or anywhere else.
This is going to get very Hunger Game-ish. People arguing to sacrifice x number of the old or infirm just so the current structure stays largely intact. One of the main problems with the current structure in this pandemic is that the medical system is primarily for profit, so there is no cushion for emergencies built in because doing so is unprofitable, and you cannot swing resources seamlessly from federal stockpiles or manpower to the medical system. The medical system has to change, because this is not the last pandemic.
I get a kick out of the absurdity of trying to tally "potential suicides" from job losses or staying in as a balancing count against actual losses predicted if there is not a lockdown. That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a logic to justify disease deaths.
The medical side has numbers. The business side is making stuff up as they go along.
Quote: redietz
The medical side has numbers. The business side is making stuff up as they go along.
What utter garbage. Let me know when they approach 480,000 deaths, the medical side. Destroying small business is not making stuff up. Folks gotta pay the rent and buy the food. We need to reopen for business with new standards in place soon. Easter sounds good.
Is there somewhere we can bet on that?Quote: Minty480,000 may come faster than you think and the reopening it likely to expedite that.
I don’t want to get political so I won’t respond specifically. I’ll just generally note that this happens in America every day in many industries.Quote: billryanThe day we put business over the public health is the day America joins the League of Lesser Nations.
We should be seeing a breakdown. We know it's hitting older folks....but we should get an idea on their health issues prior to contracting the virus.
Matthew 19:24 starts the debate rolling.
Then we get into Revelation imagery with the Whore of Babylon. Is anything more whorish than trading money for lives?
One might cut to the chase and ask, as the bumper stickers do, what the Nazarene himself would have to say.
When all is said and done, recommending Easter as the day to resurrect the economy by risking lives might very well come under the aegis of sacrilege. From the perspective of Satan, an inside joke, so to speak.
Quote: redietzAn interesting side note to this is that the U.S. is a predominantly Christian country. When an allegedly Christian leadership starts suggesting lives-for-business trades, you get into some interesting inconsistencies.
Matthew 19:24 starts the debate rolling.
Then we get into Revelation imagery with the Whore of Babylon. Is anything more whorish than trading money for lives?
One might cut to the chase and ask, as the bumper stickers do, what the Nazarene himself would have to say.
When all is said and done, recommending Easter as the day to resurrect the economy by risking lives might very well come under the aegis of sacrilege. From the perspective of Satan, an inside joke, so to speak.
This is no longer a Christian country and government. Hasn't been in quite awhile. They threw prayer out of schools, allowed 60 million + abortions not to mention Homosexual marriage and unwieldy national debt. Just the highlights. With economics, a long shut down of a lot of the economy will bring forth more misery than you are ignoring. So how many tens of thousands will die by common flu? Not a peep out of you. Is that not hypocrisy?????
Quote: redietzI One of the main problems with the current structure in this pandemic is that the medical system is primarily for profit.
You could not be more wrong. Our for profit medical system had TRIPLE the number of ventilators when compared to socialized medicine country, like, say, ITALY! (per capita) So we were starting as WAY MORE prepared for such a disaster than they were. We have had more cases now than any country. No American has died for lack of a ventilator.
The for profit motive has the US developing MOST of the new drugs and treatments in the world.
FOR PROFIT leads to innovation. Just think Apple. If it was up to a socialist government to be responsible for innovation, you'd still be dialing to make a call.
we're both old
if we get it resources are going to be used for younger people
the older people will be left to die if there's not enough resources to go around
I can accept this
but I feel strongly that it should be legal to assist anyone in this situation to die painlessly
that's my two cents worth that no one in authority will probably ever listen to or consider
Quote: petroglyphhttps://www.ghsindex.org/
Global health security index.
That's what I thought...in 2019.
The 2020 and 2021 scores should be interesting.
If you read other nation's papers or listen to interviews with other countries' epidemiologists, you get a sense of how sorry they feel for the American public.
I listened to an interview last night with one of South Korea's elder statesmen of epidemiology at their pandemic institute. I will dig it up and post it -- it was March 24th. It's subtitled, but it covers a lot of ground and is very Dragnet matter-of-fact. He makes the point that a country like South Korea would normally need 10 years to develop a solid, practical vaccine, but that the U.S., if everything goes absolutely perfectly, may be able to have one in 18 months. He also has some opinions on wearing masks and what doctors need most after two months of the pandemic there. His answer was "rest, but you cannot rest during a war."
He felt that Europe and the U.S. seemed overconfident regarding the virus, and that their cultures were not designed to handle something like this easily.
Quote: redietzI just wanted to report that, based on the last 36 hours or so, I have been too optimistic. I think the president will walk back his Easter idea in the next couple of days. Probably just let it die on the vine and let Pence explain that "the president has decided" something else.
Twenty minutes ago, Dr. Fauci reported projections that basically take the low end 80,000-if-we-quarantine projections out of play. We are more in line for numbers two or three times that, which is to be expected, given the results of the last 48 hours.
Historically females are not elevated to shackled pedestals when their labor is desperately needed.Quote: petroglyphThe plague was good from the surviving laborers position. Enough workers died that the ones remaining had a little leverage as there was a shortage of laborers. So, at least there's that.
I wold agree that the profit motive provided the excess capacity and the stimulus for innovation, I just wonder why implementation often lags. Consider VCR recorders? Smart Phone freight handling systems, connectionless payment systems. Other countries just don't have benefits paid by paper checks.Quote: SOOPOOFOR PROFIT leads to innovation. Just think Apple. If it was up to a socialist government to be responsible for innovation, you'd still be dialing to make a call.
Quote: redietz
He also has some opinions on wearing masks and what doctors need most after two months of the pandemic there. His answer was "rest, but you cannot rest during a war."
He felt that Europe and the U.S. seemed overconfident regarding the virus, and that their cultures were not designed to handle something like this easily.
It is the abundance created by the profit motive that gives us the ability to rest, to shift resources.
Overconfidence? I might agree with that. I think of the beautiful cities of South America surrounded by barrios of filth and poverty. In the USA, there tends to be an isolation from evil.
Basically, got everything more or less correct for four months regarding the virus and U.S. responses to it. I received a handful of compliments, which I greatly appreciate, including from a few book authors and a national columnist.
The point about today and why I bumped this. Back on May 18th, in an entry called "Outside the Box," I made the point that instead of restricting those most vulnerable to the virus, one way to think outside the box was to evaluate the individual differences in ability to spread virus and restrict those who likely spread the most or restrict specific behaviors that lead to the most spread. I suggested banning singing in church.
Well, today (July 3) California banned singing in church, which was probably a compromise move to enable churches to stay open.
I also wonder how effective different measures being taken place on a statewide scale are versus more universal policy. I get that different states have different needs, but I am really curious as to how many people are travelling from states with fewer restrictions to states with more restrictions.
Quote: MintyCongrats. It's nice to feel acknowledged that way. I do feel that other than bars, beaches and nursing homes, I tend to hear the most about churches being hot spots.
I also wonder how effective different measures bei Kodi nox ng taken place on a statewide scale are versus more universal policy. I get that different states have different needs, but I am really curious as to how many people are travelling from states with fewer restrictions to states with more restrictions.
o think outside the box was to evaluate the individual differences in ability to spread virus and restrict those who likely spread the most or restrict specific behaviors that lead to the most spread. I suggested banning singing in church.