i feel i got screwed big time by the dealer, wondered if i should contact gaming
they dont realize im counting due to the fact im martingaling, but only in good counts. if the count goes bad, i bet small for quite some time and finish the martingale where i left off on a different shoe once the true count passes +2
here is where i think i got royally screwed. im at the table with 2 folks. ive got $2300 on the table, but less than $30 of it is profit. i was stuck heavily and recently gotten even and somewhat up when i finally put out 2 bets of $450 each late in the shoe on a +4 true count. went to 2 hands of $10 right after winning, so they wont think i know the counts plus. of course, had it been negative id went to 1 of $5, so im still betting 4x more.
these 2 folks play really dumb, and they didnt see why i was mad at what the dealer did. nor did the pit boss or his boss understand. sure they are right on what their rules are, but any smart reader can see how i got screwed. heres the story. a guy had 15 the dealer had 10 up. no surrender here. running count is plus 3, not enough to effect the true count much this stage of the game. if its plus u surrender, otherwise u hit, but they dont allow it here.
so the guy waves off taking a hit. the card is a 6, so the dealer desperately tries to give it to him, (dealer had looked) guy swore he waved it off (honest guy) but dealer didnt think he did. i too had 15, so i wouldve had 21 if he dont take it. heres the big problem. if the card wouldve busted him, the dealer wouldve let him wave it off, (and of course, then i hit, then bust in the process since i cant surrender). if the card HELPS out someone with 15, he gives it to him (instead of me, who desperately needs it just as bad). puts me at a very big disadvantage. so of course, i was quite pissed. floor called up to see if he waved it off, he did, so instead of giving it to him, they burned it, refused to give it to me, claiming its policy. wouldnt let me take my bet back, of course i busted when i hit. i swear i wanted to call gaming on their ass.
do i have a case? the dealer is LOOKING at the 6, so he insists on giving it to him, not me. which i need. had it been a 10, he wouldve gave it to me, not him, so i bust. very unfair. i consider dealer making the decision who to give the card to after looking the same as the casino cheating me. if he wouldnt looked, id not have a case. it dont matter what the policy is, for if i keep my mouth shut, i still bust. if i speak up i bust. but i sure dont get the 6. the point is, the dealer was NOT going to follow policy, he was helping the guy out since he seen its the 6. he should lose his license, seriously.
checking for BJ does not tell them what card it is, but you would seem to know that already that doesn't apply, come to think of it
the whole point is, if its a good card (since he seen it) he tries to keep me from getting it. if its bad, he gives it to me. WTF
if the casino knows he is looking at cards, and approves of that, the place is so crooked it's beyond belief. If you don't think they approve of it, you should call the pit boss over to have him explain why it's ok that he looks at the cards
This is the only part that bothers me. Yes the situation is screwy, yes you have a right to be upset... But you seem to have some belief that the dealer did this to INTENTIONALLY screw you? Perhaps the other guy is a local and the dealer was just trying to help him and not screw you? In trying to help him it does take the card away from you, but that could just be an inadvertent part of the situation the dealer wasn't contemplating. It sounds like he was just really trying to help the one guy out.Quote: sevencard2003...the whole point is, if its a good card (since he seen it) he tries to keep me from getting it. if its bad, he gives it to me. WTF
I would be WAY more mad at the PB, who said to burn the card. Whenever the game is "changed" i.e. burning a card/hand/etc players are almost always offered the chance to stay or leave. Past that, the cards can't be backed up but almost always are allowed to go to where they're supposed to go (forward). Thus, if he indeed waived it off the PB should have given you the option to take the card, and possibly the option to withdraw your hand. I'm not sure what gaming in that state rules to do in this situation so I couldn't say if you have "a case" or not.
How much was your bet on that hand? I thought you said you drop to 2 hands of $10 for this hand. If so, it's a $10 bet. I highly doubt when they saw you betting 2x$450 they said to themselves "wait until he bets $10, THEN let's get him!" lol
Quote: sevencard2003im in a small casino in bossier city la, and only here because im staying in the hotel. they offer a $5 shoe game with stand on all 17s, which im not much used to in the cities i normally play. much better rules than in NV or NJ for sure. more like parx. low min bets too.
they dont realize im counting due to the fact im martingaling, but only in good counts. if the count goes bad, i bet small for quite some time and finish the martingale where i left off on a different shoe once the true count passes +2
here is where i think i got royally screwed. im at the table with 2 folks. ive got $2300 on the table, but less than $30 of it is profit. i was stuck heavily and recently gotten even and somewhat up when i finally put out 2 bets of $450 each late in the shoe on a +4 true count. went to 2 hands of $10 right after winning, so they wont think i know the counts plus. of course, had it been negative id went to 1 of $5, so im still betting 4x more.
these 2 folks play really dumb, and they didnt see why i was mad at what the dealer did. nor did the pit boss or his boss understand. sure they are right on what their rules are, but any smart reader can see how i got screwed. heres the story. a guy had 15 the dealer had 10 up. no surrender here. running count is plus 3, not enough to effect the true count much this stage of the game. if its plus u surrender, otherwise u hit, but they dont allow it here.
so the guy waves off taking a hit. the card is a 6, so the dealer desperately tries to give it to him, (dealer had looked) guy swore he waved it off (honest guy) but dealer didnt think he did. i too had 15, so i wouldve had 21 if he dont take it. heres the big problem. if the card wouldve busted him, the dealer wouldve let him wave it off, (and of course, then i hit, then bust in the process since i cant surrender). if the card HELPS out someone with 15, he gives it to him (instead of me, who desperately needs it just as bad). puts me at a very big disadvantage. so of course, i was quite pissed. floor called up to see if he waved it off, he did, so instead of giving it to him, they burned it, refused to give it to me, claiming its policy. wouldnt let me take my bet back, of course i busted when i hit. i swear i wanted to call gaming on their ass.
do i have a case? the dealer is LOOKING at the 6, so he insists on giving it to him, not me. which i need. had it been a 10, he wouldve gave it to me, not him, so i bust. very unfair. i consider dealer making the decision who to give the card to after looking the same as the casino cheating me. if he wouldnt looked, id not have a case. it dont matter what the policy is, for if i keep my mouth shut, i still bust. if i speak up i bust. but i sure dont get the 6. the point is, the dealer was NOT going to follow policy, he was helping the guy out since he seen its the 6. he should lose his license, seriously.
Not agreeing with what the dealer did. But how would you feel about it if the dealer had seen it (though you hadn't), and it was a 10, the guy still claimed he had waved it off, and instead of forcing you to accept it as your hit card, they burned it, and a 6 came out next? Would you still be protesting if the exact same thing happened and the cards were reversed, in other words, making this a win you didn't have coming? I have to admit I don't know at what point you and the other guy learned it was a 6.
Quote: sevencard2003im in a small casino in bossier city la, and only here because im staying in the hotel. they offer a $5 shoe game with stand on all 17s, which im not much used to in the cities i normally play. much better rules than in NV or NJ for sure. more like parx. low min bets too.
they dont realize im counting due to the fact im martingaling, but only in good counts. if the count goes bad, i bet small for quite some time and finish the martingale where i left off on a different shoe once the true count passes +2
here is where i think i got royally screwed. im at the table with 2 folks. ive got $2300 on the table, but less than $30 of it is profit. i was stuck heavily and recently gotten even and somewhat up when i finally put out 2 bets of $450 each late in the shoe on a +4 true count. went to 2 hands of $10 right after winning, so they wont think i know the counts plus. of course, had it been negative id went to 1 of $5, so im still betting 4x more.
these 2 folks play really dumb, and they didnt see why i was mad at what the dealer did. nor did the pit boss or his boss understand. sure they are right on what their rules are, but any smart reader can see how i got screwed. heres the story. a guy had 15 the dealer had 10 up. no surrender here. running count is plus 3, not enough to effect the true count much this stage of the game. if its plus u surrender, otherwise u hit, but they dont allow it here.
so the guy waves off taking a hit. the card is a 6, so the dealer desperately tries to give it to him, (dealer had looked) guy swore he waved it off (honest guy) but dealer didnt think he did. i too had 15, so i wouldve had 21 if he dont take it. heres the big problem. if the card wouldve busted him, the dealer wouldve let him wave it off, (and of course, then i hit, then bust in the process since i cant surrender). if the card HELPS out someone with 15, he gives it to him (instead of me, who desperately needs it just as bad). puts me at a very big disadvantage. so of course, i was quite pissed. floor called up to see if he waved it off, he did, so instead of giving it to him, they burned it, refused to give it to me, claiming its policy. wouldnt let me take my bet back, of course i busted when i hit. i swear i wanted to call gaming on their ass.
do i have a case? the dealer is LOOKING at the 6, so he insists on giving it to him, not me. which i need. had it been a 10, he wouldve gave it to me, not him, so i bust. very unfair. i consider dealer making the decision who to give the card to after looking the same as the casino cheating me. if he wouldnt looked, id not have a case. it dont matter what the policy is, for if i keep my mouth shut, i still bust. if i speak up i bust. but i sure dont get the 6. the point is, the dealer was NOT going to follow policy, he was helping the guy out since he seen its the 6. he should lose his license, seriously.
(Since you posted it on this site also, I will add my response)
Do I understand correctly that you bet the 2X450, and won, then went to 2X10 and the dealer error occurred?
If so, then why are you making an issue out of $20. One thing you will gain is that the dealers and the pit and surveillance will have a clear memory of who you are and what you look like. I will pay $20 for that to not be the case! In fact, I might consider the entire fiasco a "cost of cover" if I could not get a satisfactory resolution at the pit level and very quickly.
Now, when looking at the specific transaction, one wonders why the dealer has knowledge of the card prior to a player making a decision, certainly is not proper dealer protocol. You see, if this does not happen then none of your issue ever comes in to question!
I am not sure of the regulation that might offer either correctness of the casinos actions, or confirmation of the casinos screw up, but I am pretty sure they know. Chasing this event will also require a detailed review by surveillance. Since you are on tape, and if you are betting the way you indicated, a competent surveillance (perhaps an oxymoron but possible) person reviews it for long enough to determine you are moving money with the count, then you may have the pleasure of being placed in OSN and locally flyer-ed. With the "big picture" in view I would consider the event a cost of cover and move on.
Anyway, the way I see it, the dealer was showing favoritism towards the first player. I don't think it was that he/she wanted you to lose but just preferred to help the first player. He was probably tipping more or a well-liked regular. The right thing to do for the dealer in this situation would be to keep the best possible poker face.
The dealer should receive a clear indication from the player prior to pulling and looking at the card. I think a call to management would be appreciated more than a call to Gaming.
If for some reason you want to read quite possibly the most vile, hateful piece of writing that would make adolf hitler blush, read his blog post from March 17th.
ZCore13
Quote: Ayecarumbathe dealer was cheating his employer. It's one thing to help someone, but it is quite another if that assistance disadvantages other players too. I would contact gaming.
The dealer should receive a clear indication from the player prior to pulling and looking at the card. I think a call to management would be appreciated more than a call to Gaming.
agree with your perspective, but the floor didnt seem to understand why i was upset. they did refuse to give either me or him the card though. we both lost. i think the 3rd player at the table thought i shouldve said nothing. i dont think this night floorperson/shift boss was smart enough to see our perspective.
Quote: RomesThis is the only part that bothers me. Yes the situation is screwy, yes you have a right to be upset... But you seem to have some belief that the dealer did this to INTENTIONALLY screw you? Perhaps the other guy is a local and the dealer was just trying to help him and not screw you? In trying to help him it does take the card away from you, but that could just be an inadvertent part of the situation the dealer wasn't contemplating. It sounds like he was just really trying to help the one guy out.
I would be WAY more mad at the PB, who said to burn the card. Whenever the game is "changed" i.e. burning a card/hand/etc players are almost always offered the chance to stay or leave. Past that, the cards can't be backed up but almost always are allowed to go to where they're supposed to go (forward). Thus, if he indeed waived it off the PB should have given you the option to take the card, and possibly the option to withdraw your hand. I'm not sure what gaming in that state rules to do in this situation so I couldn't say if you have "a case" or not.
How much was your bet on that hand? I thought you said you drop to 2 hands of $10 for this hand. If so, it's a $10 bet. I highly doubt when they saw you betting 2x$450 they said to themselves "wait until he bets $10, THEN let's get him!" lol
i think since he was a regular (although he wasnt tipping either) he got preferential treatment. (maybe the dealer hoped it would get him to tip). im the outsider, and i might never be in there again. not from here. i did win close to $900 over 5 sessions. i just dont think the dealer took into acct how it would effect me, but he shouldve. its so easy for me to see this, i find it hard to understand how the dealer cant see. hopefully hes now aware. and yes im mad at the PB, but they claim thats the rule--that exposed cards cannot be given to the next player and get burned. i thought it was unfair i couldnt at least withdrew the bet if i couldnt get the card. mainly i was upset he didnt seem to understand why the way it went down hurts me.
i know $20 seems like little to u but at the time, it was about 1 3rd of my win for this session. i had good luck later on however, and eventually quit 90 min later over $400 up. i often care more on the principle than the money and it hurts me plenty sometimes.
Quote: beachbumbabsNot agreeing with what the dealer did. But how would you feel about it if the dealer had seen it (though you hadn't), and it was a 10, the guy still claimed he had waved it off, and instead of forcing you to accept it as your hit card, they burned it, and a 6 came out next? Would you still be protesting if the exact same thing happened and the cards were reversed, in other words, making this a win you didn't have coming? I have to admit I don't know at what point you and the other guy learned it was a 6.
in this situation, id of course not took the 10, id stood on the 15.
Quote: Stealth(Since you posted it on this site also, I will add my response)
Do I understand correctly that you bet the 2X450, and won, then went to 2X10 and the dealer error occurred?
If so, then why are you making an issue out of $20. One thing you will gain is that the dealers and the pit and surveillance will have a clear memory of who you are and what you look like. I will pay $20 for that to not be the case! In fact, I might consider the entire fiasco a "cost of cover" if I could not get a satisfactory resolution at the pit level and very quickly.
Now, when looking at the specific transaction, one wonders why the dealer has knowledge of the card prior to a player making a decision, certainly is not proper dealer protocol. You see, if this does not happen then none of your issue ever comes in to question!
I am not sure of the regulation that might offer either correctness of the casinos actions, or confirmation of the casinos screw up, but I am pretty sure they know. Chasing this event will also require a detailed review by surveillance. Since you are on tape, and if you are betting the way you indicated, a competent surveillance (perhaps an oxymoron but possible) person reviews it for long enough to determine you are moving money with the count, then you may have the pleasure of being placed in OSN and locally flyer-ed. With the "big picture" in view I would consider the event a cost of cover and move on.
i do things i shouldnt at times, due to emotion. (if u seen my blog u would know). i just thought id probably never be there in the future, and wanted the dealer to make sure he never does this in the future to 2 other guys like us. principle of course.
Quote: Zcore13I assume this is the post you are referring to? Tony Bigcharles Blog Post
ZCore13
Oh no, that one is pretty tame I think, but difficult to follow what he's trying to say there. I'm referring to the one before that, that somehow tries to explain a chain of logic how white women dating black men are racist, along with the usual gay hatred.
Quote: Stealth(Since you posted it on this site also, I will add my response)
Do I understand correctly that you bet the 2X450, and won, then went to 2X10 and the dealer error occurred?
If so, then why are you making an issue out of $20. One thing you will gain is that the dealers and the pit and surveillance will have a clear memory of who you are and what you look like. I will pay $20 for that to not be the case! In fact, I might consider the entire fiasco a "cost of cover" if I could not get a satisfactory resolution at the pit level and very quickly.
After reading it a couple of times, totally agree. Not worth getting gaming involved if Tony has an edge here and they gave him a tough ruling on a small bet.
