Mission146
Mission146
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July 10th, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Surprisingly, the machines were not as bad as they could have been. The video slots were around 90% and the video poker was poor at around 96%. There was "mistakenly" one full pay Deuces Wild game,



Did they do any free play or other mail comps?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
DRich
DRich
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Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 10th, 2021 at 5:12:12 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Did they do any free play or other mail comps?



Yes, $5 to $100 free play but not very often.
Order from chaos
Mission146
Mission146
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September 3rd, 2021 at 8:19:25 AM permalink
Greetings!

There's nowhere to really tack this on to a thread, but I take a deep dive into MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) companies, the one time that just having a job is a gamble.

What makes it a gamble?

-No guaranteed income.

-Time investment with no guaranteed return.

-Sometimes you have to pay just to start selling another company's products.

-If there's any money to be made, it's usually by creating your own sales competition! (Yes, really, read the article to see what I mean)

Do you know anyone who has sold for an MLM? Have you ever done it yourself? Did you have any success?

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/the-mlm-gamble/
Last edited by: Mission146 on Sep 3, 2021
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
MDawg
MDawg
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September 3rd, 2021 at 9:08:56 AM permalink
I worked briefly for two different MLM companies as a yout.

The first one, I got dragged into it by my gf at the time. She was involved with it, so I was too for a short period of time.

The second one I joined specifically with the intent of figuring out how the guy who had started it was doing it, to then start my own MLM. I decided against it, and later, the guy who had started that MLM was shut down, sued by the FTC and left with just one Rolex and one or two nice houses in Florida. Oh, tragedy, but compared to what he had before, that was peanuts.

I don't think there are too many MLMs that have long term survived the "anti front loading" actions by regulatory agencies. Amway and Herbalife are two who have survived. I think NSA is still around too. Front loading is where the MLM is pushing its agents more to just buy up stock to achieve a higher discount rate within the MLM than to sell anything actually. And, statistically speaking, I think that most of the inventory that people involved with MLMs acquire ends up unsold in their garages or trunks of their cars.

The theory of MLM is to just get 3 new customers a week, and have each of those 3 in turn get 3 new customers a week. If this carries on, you'll get insanely rich from your downstream. The problem is that the entire population of the Earth is exhausted after something like 11 weeks of such theoretical expansion. But the guy at the top, is making money hand over fist, which gets back to why I wanted to start my own MLM.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
billryan
billryan
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September 3rd, 2021 at 9:30:53 AM permalink
My mom sold Amway, circa 1973-76. It seemed like she was more successful selling on the army bases we lived on than when we lived in the world. I liked the products myself. My sister sold Avon for a bit around this time and it seemed like easy money, although it was pocket money.
Around 1983/84, a friend who was selling coke on the side decided to get into a new MLM called NuSkin(?) in order to appear legit. To his surprise, the products were popular and it turned into a fulltime job for his girlfriend. It was fairly comical. Somebody would show up for an eighth and end up walking out with a skin care package to boot.
His girlfriend was pretty aggressive, ended up having a bunch of sellers working under her and some of the checks she got were rather impressive. I don't recall numbers but it was a good income for 1985. They moved to another neighborhood and I saw them less and less but he still had both business's going well into the 1990s. His parents both died within a year and he and his brother inherited their hardware store and several rental properties. He sold his share to his brother and moved to Vegas. I never heard from him and my half-assed attempts to find him when I lived in Henderson were unsuccessful. Like most of my friends, he has almost zero social media presence.
Mission146
Mission146
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September 3rd, 2021 at 9:30:54 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I worked briefly for two different MLM companies as a yout.

The first one, I got dragged into it by my gf at the time. She was involved with it, so I was too for a short period of time.

The second one I joined specifically with the intent of figuring out how the guy who had started it was doing it, to then start my own MLM. I decided against it, and later, the guy who had started that MLM was shut down, sued by the FTC and left with just one Rolex and one or two nice houses in Florida. Oh, tragedy, but compared to what he had before, that was peanuts.



In theory, what sort of goods or services were being sold at each of them? Roughly what year did the FTC come after the guy and do you know what practices were causing him to draw the scrutiny to begin with?

Quote:

I don't think there are too many MLMs that have long term survived the "anti front loading" actions by regulatory agencies. Amway and Herbalife are two who have survived. I think NSA is still around too. Front loading is where the MLM is pushing its agents more to just buy up stock to achieve a higher discount rate within the MLM than to sell anything actually. And, statistically speaking, I think that most of the inventory that people involved with MLMs acquire ends up unsold in their garages or trunks of their cars.



My article touches on Herbalife and one of those policies is that, if you quit selling for them, then (in theory) you can return any unopened product that was purchased within the last year and get a refund on it. I have no idea how many hoops one has to shimmy through to successfully do that process, but I'm not going to claim any because I have no clue.

That's true, I linked to Youtuber Illuminaughtii who talked about someone who ended up with a garage full of crap, but I forget which of the videos it was and I think she was just repeating what was said on some third-party site.

Steeper discounts and I imaging ordering from yourself counts as a, "Sale," which might put you into a higher commission bracket for those MLM's that do a straight commission model. Herbalife appears (to me) to be a company in which you buy the inventory and then try to sell it for something that middles what you paid for it and their retail price.

Quote:

The theory of MLM is to just get 3 new customers a week, and have each of those 3 in turn get 3 new customers a week. If this carries on, you'll get insanely rich from your downstream. The problem is that the entire population of the Earth is exhausted after something like 11 weeks of such theoretical expansion. But the guy at the top, is making money hand over fist, which gets back to why I wanted to start my own MLM.



Yup! I found that, according to Avon themselves, something like 1 in 43 citizens of the United States sell Avon.

I really don't know how I feel about it. On the one hand, anyone with just the slightest shred of reason and objectivity can clearly tell why hopping on with an MLM probably isn't going to work, and they are responsible for their own decisions. On the other hand, is there ever a point where you say, "Tricking (sometimes stupid) people in this way should be illegal?"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
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September 3rd, 2021 at 9:36:36 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

My mom sold Amway, circa 1973-76. It seemed like she was more successful selling on the army bases we lived on than when we lived in the world. I liked the products myself. My sister sold Avon for a bit around this time and it seemed like easy money, although it was pocket money.



That's a good point on the pocket money! It seems like it's fine if you can make a little bit with minimal time investment and could even be good for social networking, such as, "Tupperware parties," and things of that nature. I imagine that some church ladies can also make a little change, just by virtue of having many people who they know relatively personally and can sell to them.

The army base seems good because you have a group of people who tend to look out for their own and are also a social network that is built-in to where you live.

Quote:

Around 1983/84, a friend who was selling coke on the side decided to get into a new MLM called NuSkin(?) in order to appear legit. To his surprise, the products were popular and it turned into a fulltime job for his girlfriend. It was fairly comical. Somebody would show up for an eighth and end up walking out with a skin care package to boot.



It probably was NuSkin; it looks like they are still around. That's pretty funny about the NuSkin. I think that's another example of just having...um, we'll call it a social network...sort of built in to what you do.

Quote:

His girlfriend was pretty aggressive, ended up having a bunch of sellers working under her and some of the checks she got were rather impressive. I don't recall numbers but it was a good income for 1985. They moved to another neighborhood and I saw them less and less but he still had both business's going well into the 1990s. His parents both died within a year and he and his brother inherited their hardware store and several rental properties. He sold his share to his brother and moved to Vegas. I never heard from him and my half-assed attempts to find him when I lived in Henderson were unsuccessful. Like most of my friends, he has almost zero social media presence.

  • link to original post



    I believe it. It's all about creating that downline.

    I think it would be better if all of these things were repped as, for most people, maybe making a little extra money. The problem I see is when some people are convincing others that these massive commissions can be made and convince them to quit full-time jobs to sell some overpriced retail item, or some such.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 3rd, 2021 at 9:46:38 AM permalink
    Yes, Herbalife's no questions asked refund policy for end users is, I understand, part of the reason why they (1) avoided regulatory action, but also (2) why Herbalife distributors started making a lot less money. I suppose that if they have an additional policy about distributors being able to return unopened merchandise, that helps too - but, if the end buyer opens the product, uses it, doesn't lose weight and then is entitled to a refund, where does that leave the distributor, who ends up with returned, opened product? Is the distributor entitled to a refund from Herbalife for the opened product that he was forced to refund to the end user?

    I am not sure, but I thought that Herbalife became less and less popular with the general American public and more and more popular with the Spanish speaking segment?

    As far as the guy who was shut down, he worked for a water filtration multilevel company first, and then started off selling his own water filters, but later expanded to selling about everything. He was on track to be one of the fastest growing companies in the U.S. before he was shut down completely around 2000. Being accused of front loading is the MLM equivalent of being accused of a ponzi scam.

    You know how every now and then in town one of these ponzi scams starts up where people put in money and just need to find enough investors to cash out and move on? If you look closely, MLM isn't all that different from such schemes, except that actual product is involved for sale. With MLM for every person who makes money a dozen have lost and supported the winner's downstream, by buying product that never sold, thereby sending money upstream. And as well, MLM sellers aren't just looking for end user buyers, they are hoping that the end user buyers will convert to sellers, sold on the idea that the product is great and they will make money buying it at a discount and re-selling it.

    See here's the thing - unless you buy into that whatever the MLM is selling is somehow "unique" (it isn't), no matter how much of a discount you get on the item it will never sell for less than you would be able to find the identical or near identical item at some direct sale, non MLM source.

    But again, if you have the energy to proselytize and are able to sleep at night knowing you are fleecing the general public, MLMs are huge money makers for those on top. But MLM participants don't make the real money from simply selling product to end users - they need converts, to buy lots of product and try to sell under them, as part of their downstream.
    Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 3, 2021
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    billryan
    billryan
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    September 3rd, 2021 at 9:53:27 AM permalink
    The show "On becoming a God in South Florida" revolves around an imaginary MLM line.

    On Becoming a God in Central Florida. This dark comedy series stars Kirsten Dunst as Krystal Stubbs, a minimum-wage water park employee who lies, schemes and cons her way up the ranks of the cultish, multibillion-dollar pyramid scheme that drove her family to ruin in the first place.
    DRich
    DRich
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    September 3rd, 2021 at 9:53:56 AM permalink
    I didn't realize that Avon was considered a MLM. I remember my mother buying Avon from a friend but she never was involved with it.
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