Donate option -- Save the Wizard sites.
Poll
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92 members have voted
+2Quote: WizardPersonal insult -- Fourth offense -- 30 days. Be careful of that door on your way out ...
So, when Larrys went on his ill-fated rant, I didn't get it. Wiki asks for donations, and I don't see rants because of Wiki's minor reminder from time to time.
I mean, Wizard could sell our email addresses to gambling sites. Wizard could force us to read pop-up ads every click and see ads between forum posts. Wizard could charge membership fees. Wizard could put gambling advice behind a pay-for-membership firewall.
Instead, Wizard's funding for this website consists of Bodog advertising exclusively. We, in turn, get a very clean and easy-to-use UI and is probably the most readable gambling forum on the net, because of his moral decision to not clog up the website with ads.
So, donate, or don't.
Quote: LarrySI believe your statement that you make bad business decisions
you are like the guy that sets his house on fire and then complains that its to expensive to pay for all the water damage after the fire dept leaves.
2 days before my last suspension I posted my email address....and during the first week of my suspension I recived over 20 emails from people disgusted with the behavior on this site. Oh no....not the behavior of the posters. but the behavior that you personally allow of your mods. I am not going to detail the issues here since this is not the thread for it.
What good is getting new advertisers if there are people willing to barrage them with hate mail.(organization like that was suggested by one person that emailed me).
you set your house on fire.........get some gasoline or get some water....its up to you
However I do know the response that every customer loves to hear....."if your dont like it....dont let the door hit you ....."
And yes we are all "customers".....even if a business owner gives out something for free doesnt mean his representatives can behave inappropriately.
AS a real businessman I know how businesses treat people. If I have an ice cream store, and give out free icecream cones one day.....and some guy complains sarcastically that the portion is too small......I could say...."dont let the door hit you in the ass "I am kicking you out for loitering and sarcasm.....or I could say "thanks for your feedback, I will take that into consideration when I hold the next promotion".
I agree you have alot to learn about business. One key trait of a good businessman is the ability to surround themselves with exceptional people.
FACE was a good start.
Wow. Talk about walking in to someone's house as a guest and then punching them in the face. I hope you learn some manners during your time out.
But I don't understand the need to come on here and state that you are not donating.
Quote: odiousgambitBut I don't understand the need to come on here and state that you are not donating.
I'm pretty sure that's the point of the poll/thread.
Quote: jml24Thinking of all the valuable info I have received from the odds site and entertaining/useful discussions I have read here, I made a donation. I think the donation revenue potential from regular forum participants is probably small because of the small numbers of them. I suspect the odds site has very high traffic based on the fact that I meet people all the time in casinos who mention the site. It is hard to believe there is not a way to convert that much traffic into revenue sufficient for the wiz to maintain a decent lifestyle. The quality and quantity of information on the odds site is outstanding.
I have heard plenty of pit personnel misquote the WOO site - so I know there are people reading it
Quote: jml24Thinking of all the valuable info I have received from the odds site and entertaining/useful discussions I have read here, I made a donation. I think the donation revenue potential from regular forum participants is probably small because of the small numbers of them. I suspect the odds site has very high traffic based on the fact that I meet people all the time in casinos who mention the site. It is hard to believe there is not a way to convert that much traffic into revenue sufficient for the wiz to maintain a decent lifestyle. The quality and quantity of information on the odds site is outstanding.
The way to monetize it is through ads. I'm not a big fan of donation-supported sites. I think that the key is to use ads that are not intrusive. People who really have a problem with them will just block them.
I am not really sure about the idea that individual advertisers need to be vetted. Just because an ad shows up on a web site, it doesn't mean that the owner of the site endorses the product. If I see an ad for corn flakes on NBC, it does not mean that the owners of NBC love corn flakes -- I think that most people understand that.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe way to monetize it is through ads. I'm not a big fan of donation-supported sites. I think that the key is to use ads that are not intrusive. People who really have a problem with them will just block them.
I am not really sure about the idea that individual advertisers need to be vetted. Just because an ad shows up on a web site, it doesn't mean that the owner of the site endorses the product. If I see an ad for corn flakes on NBC, it does not mean that the owners of NBC love corn flakes -- I think that most people understand that.
Personal promotion of vetted products by trusted sources appears to be much more profitable than blindly showing up google ads. Especially on special interest forums and wesbites
Quote: thecesspitPersonal promotion of vetted products by trusted sources appears to be much more profitable than blindly showing up google ads. Especially on special interest forums and wesbites
Possibly. I haven't done any research into this. Do you have data?
I could see that for something like online casino ads, where everyone is worried about getting ripped off. But what about B&M hotel/casino ads? Let's face it, a stay at Aria is not that different than a stay at Wynn.
Quote: AxiomOfChoicePossibly. I haven't done any research into this. Do you have data?
Anecdotal based on several blogs/feeds I read.
Quote:I could see that for something like online casino ads, where everyone is worried about getting ripped off. But what about B&M hotel/casino ads? Let's face it, a stay at Aria is not that different than a stay at Wynn.
If you have a choice between the two, and The Wizard said 'hey, I like the Aria, they gave me a night there and were really cool about me working out the house edge on a new game', it might swing you to stay at the Aria over the Wynn. Might. It depends how price sensitive shoppers are for hotel rooms, and I suspect highly is possible.
I also suspect the opinions of the regular forum posters are far more keenly held than the opinions of those that read the Wizard of Odds pages and don't post here.
Good luck wiz.
[Edit]Used PayPal without a hitch. Those of you having problems might want to log on to the PayPal site and be sure your information is up to date, such as new credit card expiration dates.
Tried to pay through PayPal, but have to wait a few days to confirm my card, will do so once that is sorted.
Good luck.
Quote: MrVI wonder what the actual out of pocket monthly costs are to maintain a couple of sites?
I think it would be fair to compare it to Hal Holbrooke's Mark Twain show, when he was touring it, or Leonard Nimoy's Vincent (which I actually worked, so I can speak first-hand). From an audience perspective, you sat down in a theater, one guy came out, he talked for 2 hours with a short break, and then you left. Why'd you have to pay $50/head for this? (And that was 30 years ago). Besides Mr. Nimoy's salary, there was:
3 lighting crew
6 stage crew
2 costumers
1 stage manager
1 house manager
4 box office employees
That was just during the show, in a small regional theater. Overhead:
2 Semi trucks with drivers.
4 Roadies.
Costume designer and seamstresses.
Scenic designer, technical director, construction crew.
Property master, props manufacturer.
Materials for props, sets, lighting, sound.
Sound designer, Lighting designer.
Director.
Theater rent (encompassing electricity, janitorial, etc.)
All that for 1 guy on stage. Tip of the iceberg.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyGlad to help, I know these sites aren't powered by sunshine. Just posting to keep this thread floating on the most recent list.
[Edit]Used PayPal without a hitch. Those of you having problems might want to log on to the PayPal site and be sure your information is up to date, such as new credit card expiration dates.
There is a legitimate problem with the PayPal link not accepting some credit cards (seems like a pretty wide swath, given the number of people who have had problems here). It did not accept my card when I tried to use it to donate to Mike, while I used it just a few days before to donate to a different cause.
It was not a big problem for me as I just used a transfer from my checking account. But something is weird; I don't know if it's because the Wiz doesn't have a verified account or it's not a business account or something. PayPal is pretty sleazy with their fees, so I am happy to pay with a bank account transfer. But, a lot of people don't link bank accounts to PayPal and only use credit cards.
Quote: AcesAndEightsBut something is weird; I don't know if it's because the Wiz doesn't have a verified account or it's not a business account or something.
Paypal is well known for their fraud detection algorithms, at least they were early on. That was the hard problem they solved that provided the barrier to entry needed to eventually create the paypal mafia on exit. Maybe those algorithms are hitting on some activity pattern + a gambling theme.
The owner decided to cash out. Site has lost a lot of its features, no more experts, tons of really obnoxious ads, and owned by an alarm monitoring company that just pushes their own product.
This is what Mike could have done if he didn't care about his sites and this community. Support him financially if you want to and are able (or not) but stop all the comments about motives and other crap.
Apologies for not using Paypal but I don't have one of those accounts.
All the best and I hope things start looking up soon!!!
And I wish we could take all the posts in this thread regarding "other ideas" for the Wizard, along with all the posts from those announcing they aren't donating, and move them to their own separate thread. That would immediately become the first thread I ever block.
Quote: michael99000I have donated.
And I wish we could take all the posts in this thread regarding "other ideas" for the Wizard, along with all the posts from those announcing they aren't donating, and move them to their own separate thread. That would immediately become the first thread I ever block.
+100
-On donation page, show how much money has been donated.
-Perhaps have a "monthly goal" on the page and show how much has been donated for this month. The goal would be expenses minus income (ie: servers+labor costs $800/month and you're getting $300/month in advertisements....goal would be $500/month).
-Have a thing underneath someone's name (next to their posts) with how much they've donated.
-Have a private donation-only forum ($10+ ?). IMO, posts would stay more on topic.
-Perhaps enable auto-donation. For example, it could be setup so someone could donate $X/month automatically.
Two gaming forums I used to post on (they're gone now because no one plays those games anymore) had the above implementations regarding forum donations...and they got quite a bit in donations, even though most of the posters were 16-25 years old. Then again, expenses were pretty high (~ $800 for servers, $600 software development and database management, and probably $200 in miscellaneous, IIRC). Income from ads was maybe $200. Anything that wasn't covered through donations was paid out of pocket by the owner.
Something else that could be cool (not sure if it'd work though) is have charity events where people sponsor some event. For example, create a thread and say djatc is going to eat a bunch of McNuggets...then people sponsor him, saying they'll donate $5 for every 10 nuggets he eats!
Some thoughts..... I think this thread is 100% appropriate for those that politely want to explain why they are not donating, or why they feel it is not a good idea. And equally so for all the members who express their feelings that donating is a small price to pay to keep the sites up and running.
I'll donate, solely because I know Mike and he has asked the forum for this favor. However, if I didn't know Mike, I'd be a little leery.
I haven't the slightest idea what it costs to set up a web site, what the monthly fees are to keep it up, how many man hours Mike, and whomever he hires, has to put in. I couldn't fathom a guess as to how much income comes from the previous sole advertiser... $1000 a month, $5,000 a month, $20,000 a month? How much will now be coming in from the new advertisers? My point is that the donations will come in because of Mike, not the sites. Someone just going on line and being directed to the WoO site now sees a site with advertising, thus why would they opt to donate?
When I first went on WoO and then WoV, if there was a subscription fee, I never would have joined. I think all of us who NOW would be willing to pay such a fee would eventually become a much smaller community, and less fresh blood would join than we get with the free site.
That's because it does not show up as Bovada.Quote: mickeycrimmI just read the small print with my debit cards. They cannot be used in casinos or for any other gambling activity. With a name like Wizard of Odds I figure that's why I got turned down. The funny thing is I didn't have a problem loading Bovada.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyI have read that if you have a credit card on file with your PayPal account, you cannot use the same card to pay via PayPal using the "without account" option. Maybe that was the case for some of the donation-via-PayPal failures noted in this thread.
I have a PayPal account and am still being denied and am being told to "use a different credit card". Currently the card has essentially a zero balance and allows for cash advances. I called the card and they don't even see the attempts from PayPal, so PayPal isn't even attempting the transaction.
Doing some Google searches, it's clear this isn't an isolated issue when making donations...
Quote: RS
-Perhaps enable auto-donation. For example, it could be setup so someone could donate $X/month automatically.
This is already possible via PayPal. There is a checkbox for "Make this a recurring monthly donation."
Quote: strictlyAPhad the same issue
I called PayPal and they referred me back to the bank. I tried three different cards all with the same negative result. I tried through my standard account and as a "guest". I tried with different amounts. I called the credit card company and they insist they aren't seeing anything being declined.
Argh....
...has anyone been able to successfully pay via PayPal, when their PayPal account is just tied to a credit card, not a bank, and doesn't have money in the account to cover the donation?
PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!
Quote: HowManyAt least I learned one thing from this thread....
PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!
+1 quit using them years ago
+100 but already knew thatQuote: HowManyAt least I learned one thing from this thread....
PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!
ZCore13
Had the same message. I called PayPal hotline and they very kindly checked. They had accepted my setting up an account. They told me it was my bank who refused the transaction. So I'll have it sorted out there (and threaten to switch banks if they don't. I don't know why but since the bank manager was informed that I won the lottery he is much more helpful...)Quote: TheBigPaybakI have a PayPal account and am still being denied and am being told to "use a different credit card". Currently the card has essentially a zero balance and allows for cash advances.
WoO is very helpful and WoV is very entertaining. So for all those reasons, my check is in the mail (as soon as I find a stamp !).
Quote: TheBigPaybak
...has anyone been able to successfully pay via PayPal, when their PayPal account is just tied to a credit card, not a bank, and doesn't have money in the account to cover the donation?
I thought it successfully took a donation from my CC. But, looking again, it did it from the linked (and not valid) checking account. That's NOT what I set up on the donation screen.
Quote: kubikulannHad the same message. I called PayPal hotline and they very kindly checked. They had accepted my setting up an account. They told me it was my bank who refused the transaction. So I'll have it sorted out there (and threaten to switch banks if they don't. I don't know why but since the bank manager was informed that I won the lottery he is much more helpful...)
I did a donation on an alternate site and it worked fine, so I tend to think there may be a problem with the way Mike's account is setup in someway. The best thing is probably for him to call PayPal to try and figure it out: I've informed him of such.
Quote: HowManyAt least I learned one thing from this thread....
PAY PAL SUCKS!!!!!!!
What do you expect? They're owned by eBay!
