SHFL Focus Group

Quote: Pacman

Ezekiel 25:17.

yep. fiction.

Quote: Pacman

Ezekiel 25:17.

"Truth is Ringo... Your the weak and I'm the tyranny of evil men, but I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

Is math analysis required to be in the show / competition?

If anyone has specific questions regarding this focus-group evaluation, please e-mail me at rsnow@shufflemaster.com.

Quote: mrsuit31

"Truth is Ringo... Your the weak and I'm the tyranny of evil men, but I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

"See, now I'm thinking: maybe it means you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here... he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. And I'd like that."

Biblical and Pulp Fiction references aside, I think Roger was merely suggesting that there will observers making sure that the demo is a true, casino experience type demo. And that includes shuffling the deck.

For the record, I do NOT think that it means you can't use a gaffed deck during the introduction and explanation of the game. It's just that once the live play demo part of your presentation begins, you gotta use cards that are properly shuffled.

It would be insane to think you didn't have to shuffle the deck during a presentation within the offices of an empire called "ShuffleMaster".

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It would be insane to think you didn't have to shuffle the deck during a presentation within the offices of an empire called "ShuffleMaster".

Every empire has a emperor. Is this ShuffleMasters?

Quote: EvenBob

Every empire has a emperor. Is this ShuffleMasters?

no. this is:

To all who will be taking part in this, best wishes.

Quote: AceCrAAckers

To all who will be taking part in this, best wishes.

Then I assume I have been forgiven ??

Buzz you just like dishing me don't you. This question was asked in a serious manner and most have answered or responded appropriately. You on the other hand just want to belittle me for not spending $50,000, which is the average for marketing a new game.

I wasn't soliciting on this site from anyone to sell a side but wanted a constructive feedback. Most have done so. When you say "invest that little money and time" how much are you talking about? I never said that the offer of $100 was ridiculous nor should you question or belittle another person for looking at other venues. This is a forum where intelligent discussions are made, not insults hurdled.

This is one tough business to break into and I was looking for another option.

Sorry Aces. Thought you were one of the invitees. But make me wonder even more, how I got in. Probably got a better
chance of riding the winner in the Derby !

I've got good news for all you gawkers, rubberneckers, voyeurs, Peeping Toms and Lookie Loos out there.

I am going to post the final results of Wednesday's focus group in this forum. Mega props to all of the game inventors for agreeing to this. Talk about brass balls.

Let the games--and the shames and the blames?--begin.


Roger

I'm embarrassed for them already. The walk of shame and
ridicule.

I'm loving it.

Quote: WongBo

i think you should post the scores on this forum.
you used the forum to solicit participants,
it seems fair that we should get to see which games fared best.
if not the scores, than at least the rankings.
posted April 14, 2012; 11:29:49 AM

glad to hear it!
good luck to all participants!

let the predictions of the top three begin.

1. Three Card Hi Lo (Ventura)
2. Bad Beat Stud Poker (Snow)
3. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
4. Triple Aces (Ma)
5. Twist'em (Friedman)
6. Hong Kong Poker (Willis)
7. Blackjack Split (Milosevich)
8. Action Blackjack (Paff)
9. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
10. Hi Lo Stud Poker (Lima)
11. XX Poker (Hall)
12. Max 9 (Fong)

Wongbo Did you forget about 3 card mulligan poker? Or are you predicting the Wiz will be caught gaffing the game and
disqualified ? And I think you have me about 5 slots too high.

i just copied in the list from roger's announcement of the participants earlier in the thread.
i forgot about the late entrants.
as far as mullligan poker...
seems a little too similar to three card poker to make a breakout,
but you never know! (good luck to all, including the wizard)

Here is the final list of games, from Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical:

1. Action Blackjack (Paff)
2. Bad Beat Texas Hold'em (Snow)
3. Hi Lo Stud Poker (Lima)
4. Hong Kong Poker (Willis)
5. House Money (Snow)
6. Max 9 (Fong)
7. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
8. On the River (Snow)
9. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
10. Split Blackjack (Milosevich)
11. Three Card Hi Lo (Ventura)
12. Three Card Mulligan (Shackelford)
13. Triple Aces (Ma)
14. Twist’em (Friedman)
15. XX Poker (Hall)

Gee, I hope this is not the batting order. Not that I am unprepared. Just finished printing business card 10 minutes ago.
Hitting the road at 5 am. Gonna watch John Wayne in THE SEARCHERS, then gonna try and sleep. Ethan Edwards is John's favorite role.
So much so that he named his son, Ethan.
Thanks everybody, will do my best not to look like the ass I occasionally am.

Quote: Pacman

Here is the final list of games,
1. Action Blackjack (Paff)
2. Bad Beat Texas Hold'em (Snow)
3. Hi Lo Stud Poker (Lima)
4. Hong Kong Poker (Willis)
5. House Money (Snow)
6. Max 9 (Fong)
7. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
8. On the River (Snow)
9. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
10. Split Blackjack (Milosevich)
11. Three Card Hi Lo (Ventura)
12. Three Card Mulligan (Shackelford)
13. Triple Aces (Ma)
14. Twist’em (Friedman)
15. XX Poker (Hall)

Just curious, which ones are non-Shuffle Master's? I only know these aren't:

1. Action Blackjack (Paff)
7. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
9. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
12. Three Card Mulligan (Shackelford)

Thanks.

Quote: UCivan

Just curious, which ones are non-Shuffle Master's? I only know these aren't:

1. Action Blackjack (Paff)
7. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
9. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
12. Three Card Mulligan (Shackelford)

Thanks.

#14 and #15 are not.

#2, #5, and #8 definitely are.

Quote: UCivan

Just curious, which ones are non-Shuffle Master's? I only know these aren't:

1. Action Blackjack (Paff)
7. Money Suit 31 (Weiss)
9. Poker for Roulette (Miller)
12. Three Card Mulligan (Shackelford)

Thanks.

The ones that don't say "(Snow)."

Congratulations to Mr. Snow for having 3 games in the competition. Good luck.

Deleted

Competition, as defined in www.dictionary.com: Sociology . rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.

That is a great list of games. SHFL/Roger should be commended for putting this together. It is a win/win for all involved:

1) Developers get an audience with SHFL & Casino Execs for some 1st rate feedback.
2) SHFL gets a look at games that are being developed outside the Empire to see if anything sparks their interest (and they get to see how their internal games rate against others).
3) Execs get a look at more than just SHFL's future offerings without having to take time to coordinate with 12 other developers.

Good luck to all!

I just want to make something clear:

The casino participants are dealers and floor supervisors, and their task is evaluate the games. There will not be anyone in attendance with the authority to put a game on the casino floor.

The purpose of this event is three-fold:

1. It gives me the opportunity to see a wide variety of games from a wide variety of creators.
2. It gives the creators the opportunity to get their products in front of SHFL executives and as the people who supervise and deal specialty table games for a living.
3. It gives the creators and me the opportunity to build relationships. I have the utmost respect for anyone who endeavors to succeed in this realm, and I would happily impart any of my knowledge and experience to advance the cause. (But you know, don't nobody actually make eye contact with me or anything.)

Seacrest out.


Roger

Quote: Pacman

The purpose of this event is three-fold:

If somebody gets a high score, what are the
chances of their game being picked up by
a casino, or anybody else for that matter.
The scale being 0% to 100%

Quote: EvenBob

If somebody gets a high score, what are the
chances of their game being picked up by
a casino, or anybody else for that matter.
The scale being 0% to 100%

If a game received a high score from the evaluators AND the SHFL team liked it AND it was patentable, there is probably a 75% chance it would get into a casino.

So am I to understand that some of these games are not patented yet?

Does everyone at the SHFL need to sign a NDA?

Also, I noticed the number of games went from 10 to 15 pretty quick. When I first saw this post, it was already more than 10 so I did not request admittance into the event. Is there any intent on making this an annual event?

Are you able to send us out your "rules" so that we can prepare for the 2nd annual SHFL?

By the way, thank you for scheduling such a great event. This is a great way to move good ideas forward and at the same time give everyone the proper perspective on their game before they spend too much time and money.

edited

Deleted

Quote: Pacman

there is probably a 75% chance it would get into a casino.

Because this is your rodeo, aren't you being generous
with the 75% guess? Wouldn't a more accurate prediction
be around 65%

Quote: EvenBob

Because this is your rodeo, aren't you being generous
with the 75% guess? Wouldn't a more accurate prediction
be around 65%

I bet the simple answer - without giving percentages is - it may or may not get into a casino. Whether that is 75% or 65% chance of ending up there, that will always be debatable.

Quote: EvenBob

Because this is your rodeo, aren't you being generous
with the 75% guess? Wouldn't a more accurate prediction
be around 65%

I guess you would know better than I would, so we will go with 65%.

;-)

Quote: Pacman

I guess you would know better than I would, so we will go with 65%.

;-)

I just assume because its your sock hop, you're
putting the estimate a little high. Most people
would. I would.

Quote: Pacman

If a game ........ the SHFL team liked it ..........., there is probably a 75% chance it would get into a casino.

Not liking the Emperor's games? Some heads have to roll :-)))

Quote: Pacman

Assuming this goes well, we may do one again in six month or so.

Would you please provide at least a month's notice if you do it again? I am not from the area and would need to make travel arrangements plus clear my schedule. Thank you.

Also, are you able to send out the "rules" that you provided to the participants? Again - thank you.

Quote: ceb

Would you please provide at least a month's notice if you do it again? I am not from the area and would need to make travel arrangements plus clear my schedule. Thank you.

Also, are you able to send out the "rules" that you provided to the participants? Again - thank you.

Absolutely. Feel free to contact me at rsnow@shufflemaster.com.

This really is an excellent opportunity for all new games inventors even if your game doesn't make it. Not only will you be meeting at least one very successful inventor, you can go away with valuable knowledge and maybe it will lead you into tweaking your existing game or designing a new one.

Think of it as a free exhibition with the opportunity to break the ice with the 800lb gorilla in the industry (that comment was not aimed directly at you Roger :-) ).

Quote: Switch

This really is an excellent opportunity for all new games inventors even if your game doesn't make it. Not only will you be meeting at least one very successful inventor, you can go away with valuable knowledge and maybe it will lead you into tweaking your existing game or designing a new one.

Think of it as a free exhibition ...

Agreed!

Ouststanding idea. Outstanding opportunity for game developers. I need to come here more often; missed Pacman's announcement but predict this event will be a WIN-WIN-WIN that will happen again.

Not too late to PM Roger, I think..

So when is the demo? Is it going on now, 1pm in Vegas?
How did the dinner go last night, did Buzz get his prime
rib on ShuffleMaster's tab?

Results coming shortly.

Kilroy was here

Along the "Professional" and "Amateur" lines. Congratulations to all; WIN-WIN-WIN, everyone is a winner!!!

Congrats to all!

Isn't 110 on a -150 to 150 scale 86.7% of the way to perfect (260/300)?

Quote: rdw4potus

Congrats to all!

Isn't 110 on a -150 to 150 scale 86.7% of the way to perfect (260/300)?

Nope.

Quote: Pacman

We have been conducting focus groups with new games for the 12 years I've been with the company, and I can count on one hand the number of times I have been surprised by the outcome.

Looking at the winners, I'm at a loss for words.

Can somebody help me find the right words?

>>*BBTH had 73% of a perfect score (110/150), the highest percentage ever at a SHFL focus group.>>

Isn't that you, aren't you 'Snow'? Isn't this your shindig,
wasn't this your party? You came in first and second?
I don't know what to say. I'm speechless.

edited

Overall, the new games showdown was very helpful and great - if you understand WHAT you can take from it!
A HUGE number of participants left with hurt feelings and with "the tail between the legs" - but that's NOT what is was about.
It was immensely useful, just invaluable, and I was just fine with it finishing in the LOWER end of the middle third - because it told me EXACTLY what I needed to know, for the tweaks and adjustments.

Keep in mind:
1. One drawback (and Roger has just got to address this) was that a third of the games were his, which brings in the "Roger Effect" or "Big Kahuna" effect; there was a tad of patronage, simply because 33% of the games were Roger's in-house game, dealt by Roger, with Roger directly contacting and paying a day's salary of a C-note in cash to the professional dealers who served as the judges. this cannot not have an effect. Strong Recommendation: For the future, external games must never be mixed and compared along side inhouse efforts, lest the bottom-finishers leave saying: "AHA! I KNEW it was going to be a Snow job!! Auurgh!!" - which is the risk and a punishment of actually doing a good deed for the industry with the group, - a GREAT deed, for game developers. SHFL has to be VERY CAREFUL in not giving even "the appearance of an opportunity" of sour grapes. A Goliath cannot help but to have both big footprints and a well developed pitch which others going in cannot have, so separation of internal and external products may be required.

2. Also gotta say, if you're going to step into THIS gaming industry ring, you better be able to withstand from flurries!!

3. The results were immensely surprising. Stacy's dominoes game Twist 'em is good, but I never expected to do as well as it did among the non-SMI games. It was novel, but Stacy presented it so well, it shows the value of being polished.

4. Poker-for-Roulette I think is a monster side bet for Roulette. If there is ever going to any possible multi-spin side bet for Roulette, it simply would have to be PFR, and ONLY PFR, with th I-Roulette platform for it. It finished DEAD LAST, - wrongfully so, IMHO.

5. I thought my "check or raise" bet feature on Hong Kong Poker was fine limiting the raise to a single unit, to keep the element of risk reasonable, and the dealer's non-qualifer very unobtrusive. I learned otherwise, as it was a major factor in its poor finish. Roger had trained a LOT of dealers and players to expect 1-4x raise abilities on the raise bet, and in a sense, poisoned the well for 1-unit raises. Ouch.

I felt everyone is a winner, but they do not know it or cannot feel this way. But only three people (Stacy, Mike and Me, whose games finished well or acceptably; Geoof was in absentia) felt all right with it all. ALL the other independent developers felt burned because the SHFL games all had positive scores, "inflicting" a very heavy curve on the results in some people's eyes. Only Mike and Stacy finished in the top third and indy's. Every other indy game designer was in the bottom two-thirds, with wounds to lick from not voted the home-coming queen.

Also, with SHFL games included, dealer-judges were exhausted and pounded by the second round, totally incapacitated and incapable of getting into yet another new game, so many just walked away from the presentation table mid-pitch, which was very off-putting, and offending many indy designers. Nick was always gracious, though. Now keep in mind, Shufflemaster did this offer fine consideration to new game designers, and to look good, and while dealer input is invaluable, quite often dealers can be as off-putting as some of the players they put up with. ALL judges must be aware of some courteousy protocol. A number of comments on that.

But all in all, totally worthwhile, and I would not have missed it for the world.
And we should thank Roger for it, - any bugs are normal growing pains, and just bugs to be worked out.