Need help getting a table felt

I want to present my game to a local casino for trial runs, however, I need a professionally made table cloth. Does anyone know of a company that paints prototype table felts and does low volume orders? I tried Gaming Partners International, but they will only accept accounts from operating casinos.

I adapted my game to fit onto a standard Blackjack table, but just need a table felt made before I go looking for a casion to trial run it.

If GPI won't sell it to you then it sounds like once you have a casino signed on, the casino will get the felt - or assist you in getting it.

For the record, you shouldn't need the felt before you sell the idea to the casino.

And since, even for a trial, the casino will probably want their name or logo on it, I'd think the felt is one of the LAST things you gotta worry about.

Quote: VonVester

I need a professionally made table cloth.

No. You would merely feel more comfortable with one but anyone to whom you are making a serious presentation will focus on what is important and not on the quality of your display props which could be a green bed sheet with a small box saying casino logo here. For all you know they may invite you into an office not a blackjack pit to make your pitch.
Either way... its what you say and you present yourself that matters. They don't need to see a professional felt job... its not going to impress them as much as you knowing the bottom line and having a good quick delivery.

Thank you both for your input. So it seems that I am ready to make my pitch. I was under the impression that I needed to be able to hand the table felt to the casino if they wanted to try the game.

I have a provisional patent, a GLI game math analysis, and a game description with rules. Other than a contact name and a phone number, what else do I need to have in my possession before I start selling?

I was informed by one of my more experienced peers that I shouldn't bother getting the state approval for my game until I find a casino willing to try my game on their floor. Is this good information?

You don't need the state approval to show it to a casino, but you will need it before they can run the field trial.

It's a chicken and egg thing.

For what it's worth, I'd recommend going thru a game distributor. If they love the game, they will market it for you, and handle a lot of the expenses and paperwork. Of course, they will also keep a percentage of the money the casino will pay for the game. But they save you a lot of headaches. If they only like the game, they may help you improve it before they show it to a casino. If they hate it, they may be saving you a lot of money and effort by telling you exactly why a casino won't want to pay you for your idea.

I'd also recommend you re-read all the comments in both of the threads you started on this subject. You're missing out on some very important info there.

Quote: VonVester

Thank you both for your input. So it seems that I am ready to make my pitch. I was under the impression that I needed to be able to hand the table felt to the casino if they wanted to try the game.

I have a provisional patent, a GLI game math analysis, and a game description with rules. Other than a contact name and a phone number, what else do I need to have in my possession before I start selling?

I was informed by one of my more experienced peers that I shouldn't bother getting the state approval for my game until I find a casino willing to try my game on their floor. Is this good information?

In most cases, you won't be able to get state approval without a field trial first. It depends on the jurisdiction and the game. In Nevada, you can get NGCB approval of a variant without a field trial, but not a new game. The state website has details on the different processes.

You're not really going to need a felt unless your game is so involved that you need to show the bets moving around on the layout. Explaining the come bet in craps without a layout would be difficult, etc. If it's just "make the bet, play the game, pay or take" then don't bother. For layouts, consider:
Andrographics in Washington
Rye Park Gaming
Gemaco
Kardwell

Quote: MathExtremist

In most cases, you won't be able to get state approval without a field trial first.

I stand corrected. But that in itself might be another argument for getting a distributor, since the distributor knows all the procedures.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I stand corrected. But that in itself might be another argument for getting a distributor, since the distributor knows all the procedures.

Sure. And they also know the market and can usually spot a dog a mile away. It's very rare for a distributor to take on a new game, especially an unproven one. New doesn't mean valuable. Just flip through the old G2E event guides and look for the number of new game booths that never went anywhere -- and never even came back to G2E. For a while, it was all the rage to combine multiple casino games together -- craps, roulette, blackjack, baccarat, poker, you name it. I can't recall any of these games ever succeeding.

I'm not suggesting that the OP's new game is a dog - I haven't seen it. But if it doesn't improve on some fundamental negative aspect of existing games, then he's going to need a very generous TGD in order to get it in.

Wiz has two felt manufacturer's on his website gamingmath.com. I use Gemaco and find them to be excellent with regard to low volume runs (i.e. 1-3 felts at time). I have to supply the art in a "vector" format and have that completed by a graphic designer separately. PM me if you want to discuss specifics of my Gemaco contact, he is the best!

I think you can initially demo the game without a felt in hand. I have used 8.5" X 11" color version of the full layout on stock card paper before with a blown up individual player betting area on the back. That way you can give them a concept of what a full felt will look like and "demo" the game by flipping over the demo card and dealing some cards. It is much more convenient for a 1 on 1 demo in an office, in the lounge or even on a BJ table if you don't have to spread out a full layout to do the demo. No one wants to stand around and wait for the felt to be smoothed out.

That being said, I think it will take subsequent visits to a property where multiple property personnel (Floor Supervisors, Shift Managers and/or Deal Staff) will be asked to be part of a group demonstration before a DTG is willing to trial a new game concept. You are going to need a felt for that and what if you go on an initial visit and they want you back next week for a group demo?

On the state approval front, that all depends on what is allowed in the state(s) you are targeting. Where is your initial marketing going to be focused? You need to find out the rules for selling games in that market and what is required, if anything, to be order to sell/demo the game. I guess the other question is in your target market, do the casino's expect a new game to be approved before they take a serious look at it? That is also a market by market question as some states require a field trial by a "sponsoring casino" in order to get a game state approval. Other states requre the game to be approved by the state before they can be marketed to any property so just find out what is expected/required in the state(s) in which you are trying to get a trial.

VonVester

http://www.customtablefelt.com/

I didn't check them out to much if you don't see what you want call them.


GOOD LUCK

Here is another lead for you: layoutsbywilly.com/.

I have used tablelayouts.com/. They have a grahic artist on staff also.

Quote: VonVester

... a GLI game math analysis...

How did you get GLI math' approval? I was under the impression that you had to get a casino to agree to trial the game, in certain states, in order to apply for GLI approval. Maybe they've changed their procedures?

More important than state approval is finding a casino that likes the game enough to agree to trial it.

Quote: Switch

How did you get GLI math' approval? I was under the impression that you had to get a casino to agree to trial the game, in certain states, in order to apply for GLI approval. Maybe they've changed their procedures?

More important than state approval is finding a casino that likes the game enough to agree to trial it.

GLI will do an analysis for anyone. They will only write a regulatory letter under certain circumstances. Math != regulatory approval.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

For what it's worth, I'd recommend going thru a game distributor. If they love the game, they will market it for you, and handle a lot of the expenses and paperwork. Of course, they will also keep a percentage of the money the casino will pay for the game. But they save you a lot of headaches.

I would love to have a game distributor take my game. I don't have any sales savy and marketing makes me ill just thinking about it. However, game distributors don't offer up their ears easily. Probably the best advice I got from G2E was from Robert Saucier, of Galaxy Gaming, who told me that he doesn't consider any games unless the developer can show him numbers, meaning number of players the game attracts and profits over time. He was the one that recommeded that I find a local casino to put my game on their floor for a few months to see if it had any public appeal.

What about ShuffleMaster? Well, I couldn't even get past the secretary. According to her, they don't even look at third party games any longer. To me this seemed odd because, to my knowledge, their big hit, 3-card Poker, was a third party game.

Quote: Switch

How did you get GLI math' approval? I was under the impression that you had to get a casino to agree to trial the game, in certain states, in order to apply for GLI approval. Maybe they've changed their procedures?

Being a total newcomer to this business I have found a lot cart-and-horse ordering problems with the advice I have been getting from everyone that I have asked. Most of the advice that I have been getting contradicts advice I had perviously gotten. What this says to me is that there is more than one way to do this.

GLI was more than happy to take my money and give me a report saying "the game maintains a house advantage and here is the house's edge." The gentleman who designed the Blackjack 'In-Bet' advised me to get the math report before approaching a casino about putting it on their floor for trial. He said that no casino manager would even consider a game unless he/she had a report from a reputable math analysis company. Now I have a report in my hand, all crisp and full of numbers ready for casino manager attention .... which will be the hardest part of this process so far.

... and by the way. Thank you to those who gave me links to table felt fabricators.

DJ and Flea made good points, particularly about the casino's logo. I will take the advice of showing the game on a nice colored picture first and them making a felt with the appropriate logo for any casino willing to give the game a trial run.

Hopefully, if I can get a casino's attention, I will be needing those links before too long.

I printed my new table game using a color printer on a legal size sheet of paper and I used it to show people what the game looked like. Although everyone could clearly see what it was, it was hard to play using that size board however and I am not sure everyone took me seriously about developing a new game. (We had to use pennies or dimes to play the game so people could see how it played. Using chips covered too much of the board.) So, I contacted a friend of mine who owns a business making vinyl advertising banners for other businesses, like the advertising banners in a bar. I sent him a pdf of my table layout and he put my game on a 28" x 58" vinyl banner. The color of the banner is the traditional green felt color and it has the black lines with the red and gold colors throughout the board. He folded and stiched the edges down so it does not roll when spread out. It looks fantastic and everyone is much more impressed with it as a large banner as opposed to the legal size sheet of paper. The cost to me was less than $60.00, but he is my friend so I am sure he just charged me for his costs. I am sure you could find someone to put your game on a banner for less than $150.00. The size of the banner and the number of colors along with having the edges folded down, whether you want grommets in the corners to hang it up and other things will affect the price. I store my game board in a cylindrical cardboard container and can transport it very easily.

I am not sure how much the felt option is, but in my opinion, spending just a "little" extra money to get people to take you seriously may be well worth the cost. You may never get a casino to consider your game if they don't think you are serious. I wouldn't go over board though since there are so many other costs that you have to cover in your quest to get your game to market. When I had my game board made, I had to consider the size I needed (does it fit on a conference table, kitchen table, counter, etc.) and is it usable for marketing (is it large enough to handle gaming chips, cards, dice, space for people to play, people to read it at a distance, etc.)

I would be happy to pass along my friend's contact information to you if you want. Just let me know.