EvenBob
EvenBob
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August 7th, 2011 at 10:18:26 PM permalink
Do they allow a pencil and paper at the table?
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 8th, 2011 at 5:27:42 AM permalink
I wonder if there's no history display for fear of dirty words appearing, or simply because the inventor didn't want to invest in the electronics until the game gets more installs.

FYI: In the patent research for my Poker For Roulette game, my lawyer, Rich Newman, found a patent for an alphabetic game that adds the 12 zodiac symbols. That's a total of 38, so the math is the same as double zero. And it allieviates the dirty word problem somewhat.

If it were my invention, I would have put Q and U together, rather than Y and Z. whatever.

I also would have scattered the colors so that additional betting positions could be created. I.E. The rule card shows position (4) at the intersection of I, K, 2nd Six. That's identical to betting on Blue. It shows another position (4) at the intersection of S, T, U, V, Orange, Pink. To any player that needs the rule card, that's just damn confusing. Why wouldn't that bet go at the intersetion of S, U, 4th Six? After all, that's where an experienced Roulette bettor would have placed that bet.

As a graphic designer, I find it stupidly funny that the layout on the rule card is a miniture of the felt printing - right down to the paytables printed on the felt.

I notice on the rule card there are white ovals around the letters R O U L E T, and orange ovals around P A I. It's hard to see, but were there orange ovals in addition to white around R T? What about around YZ?


Did you ask the other players and or dealers what they thought of the game?

Quote:

Strategy
Every bet has the same house edge so it makes no difference what you bet on. Given the choice between Alphabetic Roulette and conventional double-zero roulette, the former is the better bet.

Some people get confused by the former / latter thing. Plus, given the apparent ignorance of people that play double-zero when a single-zero table is available, maybe the last sentence should be:
Single-Zero Roulette is the bettor's best option with a house edge of 2.7%. Double-Zero is the worst option with an edge of 5.26%. Alphabetic Roulette is right in the middle at 4%.


Did you happen to notice a brand name on the hub of the wheel?

While TCS John Huxley isn't the distributor, (and probably turned it down if they were approached), I would not be surprised to see that they manufactured the wheel. After all, they may not want to distribute it, but to make a few bucks off the supplies? Why not? As a bettor, if I saw any other name, I might be concerned with the fairness of the wheel.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
Nareed
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August 8th, 2011 at 6:52:56 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I wonder if there's no history display for fear of dirty words appearing, or simply because the inventor didn't want to invest in the electronics until the game gets more installs.



Well, I don't play roulette much, but I'd assumed habitual players are superstitious and track results. Therefore eny lure for such players would have to include a tracker of past results. I could be wrong about that, or players might prefer to keep track on paper (I assume that's allowed). Aslo the tracker stands out and can be seen from a distance, whih draws attention to the game.

We'll just have to see how the game does.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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August 8th, 2011 at 7:44:41 AM permalink
Here is the web site for the game: alphabeticroulette.com. Go to the gallery page and check out the top middle image. If you go to the top right image I'll forgive you.

Quote: EvenBob

Do they allow a pencil and paper at the table?



I took some notes on my rule card at the table and nobody said anything. I would be astonished if they didn't allow writing down past outcomes.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I wonder if there's no history display for fear of dirty words appearing, or simply because the inventor didn't want to invest in the electronics until the game gets more installs.



I doubt that is the reason. Statistically speaking, it would almost never happen. I think it was to keep expenses down.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

If it were my invention, I would have put Q and U together, rather than Y and Z. whatever.



Good idea. Like on Boggle dice.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I also would have scattered the colors so that additional betting positions could be created. I.E. The rule card shows position (4) at the intersection of I, K, 2nd Six. That's identical to betting on Blue.



I agree.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

As a graphic designer, I find it stupidly funny that the layout on the rule card is a miniture of the felt printing - right down to the paytables printed on the felt.



Agreed. They should have taken them out, as they are impossible to read on the rule card without a magnifying glass. I'm sure you'll have lots of suggestions for improvement on their web site as well.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I notice on the rule card there are white ovals around the letters R O U L E T, and orange ovals around P A I. It's hard to see, but were there orange ovals in addition to white around R T? What about around YZ?



I don't remember.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Did you ask the other players and or dealers what they thought of the game?



No. I got the impression the dealer didn't speak much English. The hot blonde (not our HB) and boyfriend seemed to like it but I didn't talk to them.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Some people get confused by the former / latter thing. Plus, given the apparent ignorance of people that play double-zero when a single-zero table is available, maybe the last sentence should be:
Single-Zero Roulette is the bettor's best option with a house edge of 2.7%. Double-Zero is the worst option with an edge of 5.26%. Alphabetic Roulette is right in the middle at 4%.



I don't apologize for the former/latter thing. If anyone is confused they should look it up, as it is common terminology. However, good point about mentioning single-zero roulette. I left that out because most casinos don't have it, but I see your point.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Did you happen to notice a brand name on the hub of the wheel?



No. Maybe you can write to them through the game's web site.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

While TCS John Huxley isn't the distributor, (and probably turned it down if they were approached), I would not be surprised to see that they manufactured the wheel. After all, they may not want to distribute it, but to make a few bucks off the supplies? Why not? As a bettor, if I saw any other name, I might be concerned with the fairness of the wheel.



Even if the wheel were biased, it would not affect the house edge if you didn't know how it was biased. So unless you bet the same letters every time, and are bothered by variance, don't worry about who made the wheel.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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August 8th, 2011 at 8:20:07 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear
I wonder if there's no history display for fear of dirty words appearing, or simply because the inventor didn't want to invest in the electronics until the game gets more installs.



I doubt that is the reason. Statistically speaking, it would almost never happen. I think it was to keep expenses down.


Now WIZ you know that fate and mathematics are sometimes Diametrically opposed. I see the F word showing up just as the church group decides to be naughty and gamble. LOL
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 8th, 2011 at 9:26:18 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I also would have scattered the colors...

I don't know why I didn't check first. As I mentioned, I have a copy of the patent for Alphabetic Roulette. The patent clearly indicates that the colors ARE supposed to be scattered!

If you're interested, here's a PDF scan of US Patent 7,204,488 B2. Page 8, column 6, lines 8 thru 12 are where it indicates that colors would be scattered. The drawings indicate that too, although it's harder to conclude based upon a black & white drawing of colors.

I wonder if that deviation opens the door to legal copy-cats.

Additionally, the patent and drawing also has a "Bonus Box" progressive bet, where the bet pays big if a letter repeats three times. That, obviously, didn't make the final cut.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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August 8th, 2011 at 11:11:03 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I don't know why I didn't check first. As I mentioned, I have a copy of the patent for Alphabetic Roulette. The patent clearly indicates that the colors ARE supposed to be scattered!

If you're interested, here's a PDF scan of US Patent 7,204,488 B2. Page 8, column 6, lines 8 thru 12 are where it indicates that colors would be scattered. The drawings indicate that too, although it's harder to conclude based upon a black & white drawing of colors.

I wonder if that deviation opens the door to legal copy-cats.


If you're really interested in that aspect, you should read the file history of the patent. The Examiner was very clear on what the patentable feature is.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 11th, 2011 at 7:27:20 PM permalink
Dave,
I wonder...
Can Poker-for-Roulette be added to Alphabetic roulette?
QRQRR, CACCA, LLLDD are full houses. So is WWUU(XY), with the single slot XY as wild zero.

PTSQR is actually a straight (PQRST), though that's REAL hard to see.

Odds would be different.

Edit: an Alphabetic Roulette dealer is a good job for a Scrabble pro.

Edit2: BOOBS are two pairs, - not one. BALLS, however, is one pair.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Switch
Switch
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August 11th, 2011 at 7:55:45 PM permalink
I played the game briefly when I was there a couple of weeks ago.

The previous spins display board was not provided in order to keep the costs down. You can track the spins on the rule card which actually has a space for previous results.

It's in a good position in the casino and the distributors are providing good back-up to give the game every chance in it's initial stages. Only time will tell but roulette is a difficult market to aim for especially as it's not a mainstream game in the US.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 11th, 2011 at 8:34:06 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Only time will tell but roulette is a difficult market to aim for especially as it's not a mainstream game in the US.


Good point, Geoff, you got me doing a little research:
In looking up stats on Missouri痴 Gaming site, I found this out on a monthly basis:
1. The Argosy Casino has 39 tables, and $7.6M in drop. Three double deck BJ tables dropped $1.3M, and 3 Roulette tables dropped $500K. Total BJ had over $4M in drop.
2. LadyLuck has 14 tables, dropped $1M. ONE Roulette table dropped only $18K.
3. Harrah's Maryland heights has 86 tables for $12.3M in drop for June. Their SEVEN Roulette tables dropped only $873K.

Everywhere in Missouri, Roulette is less than 10% of the aggregate table drop. BJ is 50% plus.
There are only 12 Pai Gow tables in the entire state (out of 450 tables, - 550 if you include poker rooms.) Seven, a majority, are EZ Pai Gow.
Many American gaming jurisdictions are new to the market, and reflect a bias towards BJ, Craps, and Poker side games like Three-card Poker and Ultimate Texas Hold 'em. Roulette and Pai Gow are really side games. You have an install at Lumiere Place, about $166K drop.

Las Vegas is more mainstream with Roulette, it's over 10% of pit revenue as a more mature market. Pai Gow here is 20% of table games in local casinos.

Market makes the game intro to a great degree. A busy Vegas Casino with a tourist population stands a better chance than a locals market with few regular players.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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