Is trademarking enough?

Hi there. Long time lurker here. First I wanna say I really love that this community is so strong and supportive, as well as knowledgeable. Just peering through here as I looked forward to each step in the process of bringing my game to life helped tremendously on my road after pouring through Dan Lubin's book and ultimately finalizing the math for my game through an independent mathematician.

I've now reached a bit of a dilemma, as I know many creators have in the last few years. My game, naturally, uses standard poker cards, so patenting is impossible. I've resigned to that, with the understanding that other forms or protection will probably be enough until the game is viable enough to steal, at which point it (hopefully) won't be worth stealing. My game does also use non-standard cards, but professional opinion has suggested, as I suspected myself anyway, that they are too obvious to patent.

With that said, I've been moving forward with trademarking the name and logo, and will also seek copyright certification for the Rules of Play. I've been led to believe that these things, plus being first to market, will generally go a long way and be reasonably comparable with the now-inaccessible patenting process. Of course, I could patent a digital version of my game as protection, so the question is, should I go that extra mile? Is it worthwhile or necessary? I certainly don't have the skill to program it as a fully playable game, and because the game and betting system is novel, rather than a side bet or variation on existing games, it would be fairly expensive to commission it. This on top of the patenting of course.

So TL;DR, is trademarking my game name and logo enough to protect my game in this day and age, or should I drop the extra time and money and pursue a digital version of the game to patent?

Quote: SphinxOfCups

So TL;DR, is trademarking my game name and logo enough to protect my game in this day and age, or should I drop the extra time and money and pursue a digital version of the game to patent?

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I recommend that everyone create a digital version of a new game that way you can patent it. A trademark will only hold you name as protectable but not the game itself. With any patent it will dissuade someone from trying to steal it because you now have enforceable claims.

Thanks for the quick response. I was worried that would be the case, but it does make sense.

I hate to ask, but are there any recommendations for where to go to get a digital game created? I'll begin researching myself as well but I assume some people here have gone through or at least attempted a similar avenue.

Quote: SphinxOfCups

Thanks for the quick response. I was worried that would be the case, but it does make sense.

I hate to ask, but are there any recommendations for where to go to get a digital game created? I'll begin researching myself as well but I assume some people here have gone through or at least attempted a similar avenue.

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I used to do that professionally for game creators but I no longer have the time. If you are willing to pay a fair price, probably 2 to 3 times what you are hoping for, you may find some individuals on this site that will do it for you. Before you ask, I can't tell you how much until the game is completely explained. Depending on the game and complexity I usually charged between $5,000 and $20,000.

Another question usually asked by game developers, "Will you do it on a royalty basis instead of getting paid up front?" My answer was always no because most likely your game will fail and then I did the work for free.

Quote: DRich

Quote: SphinxOfCups

Thanks for the quick response. I was worried that would be the case, but it does make sense.

I hate to ask, but are there any recommendations for where to go to get a digital game created? I'll begin researching myself as well but I assume some people here have gone through or at least attempted a similar avenue.

link to original post

I used to do that professionally for game creators but I no longer have the time. If you are willing to pay a fair price, probably 2 to 3 times what you are hoping for, you may find some individuals on this site that will do it for you. Before you ask, I can't tell you how much until the game is completely explained. Depending on the game and complexity I usually charged between $5,000 and $20,000.

Another question usually asked by game developers, "Will you do it on a royalty basis instead of getting paid up front?" My answer was always no because most likely your game will fail and then I did the work for free.

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Oh for sure, yeah I wouldn't approach the subject without the intent to pay upfront.

Thank you for your suggestions and info.

Trademarks are worthless because someone stealing the idea will give it a different name. Hell, even if you use legitimate methods and get a distributor, they’ll probably change the name. Ditto for logos.

Copyrights can help. Copyright the layout too as well as alternate layouts.

Software? Check the local college computer rooms for talent.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Trademarks are worthless because someone stealing the idea will give it a different name. Hell, even if you use legitimate methods and get a distributor, they’ll probably change the name. Ditto for logos.

Copyrights can help. Copyright the layout too as well as alternate layouts.

Software? Check the local college computer rooms for talent.

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And I'll be able to patent the software, which will serve as protection for the live version, correct?

I definitely had my concerns about trademarking and copyright but all sources seem to indicate that's the best that can be done when combined with being first to market, short of developing a digital version. Hence my exploration at this stage.

Quote: SphinxOfCups

And I'll be able to patent the software, which will serve as protection for the live version, correct?

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I believe software falls under copyright, not patent.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: SphinxOfCups

And I'll be able to patent the software, which will serve as protection for the live version, correct?

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I believe software falls under copyright, not patent.

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Other sources seem to disagree, can you elaborate? Definitely want to make an informed decision here.

Quote: SphinxOfCups

Quote: Dieter

Quote: SphinxOfCups

And I'll be able to patent the software, which will serve as protection for the live version, correct?

link to original post

I believe software falls under copyright, not patent.

link to original post

Other sources seem to disagree, can you elaborate? Definitely want to make an informed decision here.

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I believe that software patents pertain to certain innovative aspects of a creation, where software copyrights apply to the entire work.

Maybe you need both, but definitely copyright it.

I am not a lawyer.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: SphinxOfCups

Quote: Dieter

Quote: SphinxOfCups

And I'll be able to patent the software, which will serve as protection for the live version, correct?

link to original post

I believe software falls under copyright, not patent.

link to original post

Other sources seem to disagree, can you elaborate? Definitely want to make an informed decision here.

link to original post

I believe that software patents pertain to certain innovative aspects of a creation, where software copyrights apply to the entire work.

Maybe you need both, but definitely copyright it.

I am not a lawyer.

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If I can't just patent a digital version of my game, why is that the recommended avenue? Why would I acquire a digital version of my game if doing so offers no greater protection for the live version than copyrighting layout, RoP, etc.?

Not trying to be accusatory, but everything I've seen so far, including other comments earlier, point to creating and parenting a digital version of new tables games to be all-but-necessary now that the live versions cannot be patented reliably/at all. So coming across such a contrary claim at this stage is surprising and frankly, frustrating.

Quote: SphinxOfCups

If I can't just patent a digital version of my game, why is that the recommended avenue? Why would I acquire a digital version of my game if doing so offers no greater protection for the live version than copyrighting layout, RoP, etc.?

Not trying to be accusatory, but everything I've seen so far, including other comments earlier, point to creating and parenting a digital version of new tables games to be all-but-necessary now that the live versions cannot be patented reliably/at all. So coming across such a contrary claim at this stage is surprising and frankly, frustrating.

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Get what protections you can.
I do not know if your software implementation will be patentable. If it is, get patents.
Get copyrights too. Software is copyrightable, even if a patent cannot be obtained.
Trademarks? Sure. Get those.

wouldn't be a patent or/and copyrights only for a given country? If I am correct wouldn't it be a waste of time and money as there are so many casinos all over the world?