Poll

3 votes (27.27%)
No votes (0%)
8 votes (72.72%)

11 members have voted

HokusPokus
HokusPokus
Joined: Feb 6, 2021
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 38
February 20th, 2021 at 8:22:32 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Good luck with that. You probably need to expect to pay thousands of dollars for patents and math before you will even know if the game is going to able to get in a casino.



Why do you say that? Why would a game get that far and never make it into a casino?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 180
  • Posts: 10329
Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGamesHokusPokus
February 20th, 2021 at 8:32:11 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Good luck with that. You probably need to expect to pay thousands of dollars for patents and math before you will even know if the game is going to able to get in a casino.

Quote: HokusPokus

Why do you say that? Why would a game get that far and never make it into a casino?

Because you池e gonna need all that before a casino will even give you time of day.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
HokusPokus
HokusPokus
Joined: Feb 6, 2021
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 38
February 20th, 2021 at 8:37:12 PM permalink
So I look at game design as something that I enjoy and I was just interested in the industry since I haven't seen a whole lot of new ideas and thought the industry paid a lot with less competition.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 108
  • Posts: 7491
Thanks for this post from:
DJTeddyBearMrCasinoGames
February 21st, 2021 at 4:47:44 AM permalink
Quote: HokusPokus

Hi guys, I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the direction of the conversation. Let me clear some things up. I don't have a gambling game for anyone to analyze. I was asking for some projection of what income I can expect to make going down this path. How much can I realistically sell a game to a casino for? How many installs of the game can I expect to get. I'm sure there are plenty of expenses that I need to know but the high in most concerned about is how much money I can expect to make. Is there more money in the machines? I was thinking of making a table game and then making a gaming machine out of it if the machines make more money? Btw, does anyone just decide to make a new game without learning from the pros? I'd very much appreciate any advice, thank you.



Finally an easy question! The most likely answer to your 訴ncome question is ZERO. You read DJ痴 story, right?

No one can answer 蘇ow much for a game they have no idea about. Blackjack Switch made it into a bunch of casinos. There are some BJ side bets you will only find in one or two. I highly doubt any of the designers will make public their 叢er table fee to a casino. Maybe someone will give you an approximate. As far as how many 訴nstalls, I think that is something you may be able to find out in a specific location for a specific game.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1360
  • Posts: 22558
Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
February 21st, 2021 at 5:31:25 AM permalink
Quote: HokusPokus

Perhaps I will contact you to do math work. Could you do the math for me on what profit I could expect to make if it takes me 3 years to make a casino game?



Thank you for your interest, but I know as well as anybody the low chances of even good games ever making any money. So I'm afraid the answer to your question is a firm no.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 2077
Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
February 21st, 2021 at 6:41:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you for your interest, but I know as well as anybody the low chances of even good games ever making any money. So I'm afraid the answer to your question is a firm no.

I had dozens of would-be inventors approach me over the years who made a similar proposition -- I'll give you a share if you do the math and help me design the game. It's like asking an architect to wait to be paid for his blueprints until after all the units in the building are rented, only the building is being built on quicksand and has a 99% chance of sinking before the building is completed. The answer for me was always no as well.
Visit my YouTube Channel: @AdvancedAdvantagePlay
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 74
  • Posts: 6996
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146MrCasinoGames
February 21st, 2021 at 6:42:54 AM permalink
Quote: HokusPokus

Why do you say that? Why would a game get that far and never make it into a casino?



Even if your game gets a trial install in a casino it is still likely to make $0. I helped a company get their electronic table game into a casino and it failed miserably. They probably had over $100,000 invested in it between design work, patents, software engineering, legal fees, etc. The game lasted for about 45 days on the casino floor before being pulled. As far as I know it never had another install.

Remember, there are a lot more slot machines in a casino than there are table games. Very few independent game developers have been successful in slot machines. I was fortunate enough to get about 300 video poker games installed in casinos but my game also failed. If you find success with a slot machine the opportunity to make money is available but very difficult. I was able to make a little money by licensing my game to a manufacturer that was willing to guarantee a minimum royalty deal.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Mission146
Mission146 
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 125
  • Posts: 13038
February 21st, 2021 at 9:34:56 AM permalink
Quote: HokusPokus

Hi guys, I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the direction of the conversation. Let me clear some things up. I don't have a gambling game for anyone to analyze.



I would start by having a game.

Quote:

I was asking for some projection of what income I can expect to make going down this path.



Um....I guess that depends on how you look at it. If you look at it in terms of mean average, per game, that actually makes it into casinos...I guess that's not an awful number. If you look at it in terms of frequency, then you can probably expect to lose money. It's all home runs and strike outs, from what can tell, and it's usually a strikeout.

Quote:

How much can I realistically sell a game to a casino for?



Realistically? Realistically, you acting as an individual won't get your game into many casinos. You and your distributor will do that, but that's assuming the distributor believes in the game and is able to sell it...which is probably much worse than a coin flip. You might realistically expect to get a casino, or a few casinos, to field trial your game for free (and spend a lot of money getting even to that point) which is further than the majority of games even make it.

Quote:

How many installs of the game can I expect to get.



Expect? In terms of frequency, zero...closely followed by one and two.

Quote:

I'm sure there are plenty of expenses that I need to know but the high in most concerned about is how much money I can expect to make.



The most probable result is that you will lose tens of thousands of dollars and eventually give up.

Quote:

Is there more money in the machines? I was thinking of making a table game and then making a gaming machine out of it if the machines make more money? Btw, does anyone just decide to make a new game without learning from the pros? I'd very much appreciate any advice, thank you.



There's more money in the machines, sure, there are more machines in a casino, more people play them and they have a higher house edge. Is there more money in machine design? I wouldn't know. I imagine many slot machine designers just work more directly for the company, but this would be a much better question for DRich.

As far as making a table game and turning it into a physical machine in the casino...not counting bartop (and stadium) Blackjack, the only machine implementations that I know of to have any real success are Craps and Roulette...two of the most popular Table Games of all-time. I might have seen a Three-Card Poker machine, like, once. I think I've seen a handful of Baccarat machines...but I only specifically remember two of them.***

In order for a table game to translate successfully to a machine game, I guess what I'm saying is that you'd first have to have a widely-known and mega popular table game which, with all due respect, is highly unlikely.

***I also think I may have seen one Let it Ride machine game in a casino. I'm 90% confident I did, but I wouldn't swear to it in court.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Mission146 
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 125
  • Posts: 13038
Thanks for this post from:
teliot
February 21st, 2021 at 9:36:29 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

I had dozens of would-be inventors approach me over the years who made a similar proposition -- I'll give you a share if you do the math and help me design the game. It's like asking an architect to wait to be paid for his blueprints until after all the units in the building are rented, only the building is being built on quicksand and has a 99% chance of sinking before the building is completed. The answer for me was always no as well.



You should work for me. They've only offered you 10% of the zero in profits they will make...I'll offer you 25% of zero.
Vultures can't be choosers.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 74
  • Posts: 6996
Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGamesMission146HokusPokus
February 21st, 2021 at 4:43:23 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


There's more money in the machines, sure, there are more machines in a casino, more people play them and they have a higher house edge. Is there more money in machine design? I wouldn't know. I imagine many slot machine designers just work more directly for the company, but this would be a much better question for DRich.



In order for a table game to translate successfully to a machine game, I guess what I'm saying is that you'd first have to have a widely-known and mega popular table game which, with all due respect, is highly unlikely.

***I also think I may have seen one Let it Ride machine game in a casino. I'm 90% confident I did, but I wouldn't swear to it in court.



An independent can definitely get a deal with a slot manufacturer if the right game is presented and protected. I was fortunate to license a game to IGT, LED Gaming licensed Multi-Strike to IGT, and Eugene Jarvis licensed Super Times Poker to IGT. Obviously Ernie Moody is the only person that I know got rich licensing to IGT but he invested hundreds of thousands of his own of dollars before IGT took Triple Play poker.

I worked on a video version of Caribbean Stud Poker in the1990's but it was pretty much a failure.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

  • Jump to: