darkoz
darkoz
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July 12th, 2018 at 8:40:52 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

No, you need to take the steps to write up mechanical (felt) play and e-game or digital play in the same patent application. Don't leave that out. My advice based on 6 drafts and many thousands of dollars for the non-provisional legalese. All variations, all potential paytables, all HE mechanisms should be described in agonizing and minute detail.

My extremely simple game (if i recall correctly) makes 27 claims and runs 43 pages in its latest iteration.

When I filed the provisional, I included all my work notes and drawings, table card, math, and marketing claims. (Actually, i amended it twice as new aspects came up, before the lawyers took over. You can do that without disturbing the original protection date if you're careful.)

This helped protect all iterations as of that date, and pending (you have 1 year) the lawyers turning my notes into a proper document. And they required copies of everything to make sure they had as much info to work with as possible in finding unique IP to claim.

I would highly recommend you do it the same way. But start with advice from Rich, of course, (I mention him because i know you know him) who advised me on doing it.



I totally agree

Perhaps I had oversimplified it

The minutiae and details of every aspect including potential table gane versions must be included in the egame patent application.

That still may not be enough

But it is a huge weapon to have a patent claim which can be used with authority

If someone creates a table felt version cease and desist letters with claims of patent are very powerful

Fighting those means hiring attorneys, long court battles, and possibly the game(table version) from being distributed until the outcome (while the e-game patent allows the game to be popularized and become a money earner for the patent holder during any litigation)

That should be enough to scare away copycats was what I was trying to get at
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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July 12th, 2018 at 8:40:55 AM permalink
I donít know anything about this stuff but it seems a patent/copyright doesnít mean much. Galaxy Gaming literally copies every one of Shufflemasters table games. Their latest Spanish 21 version literally copies the whole game but changes one payout. Iíve seen a number of casinos switch their games to the Galaxy version, presumably because their license fee is less. Doesnít seem right.
darkoz
darkoz
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July 12th, 2018 at 8:44:46 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

I donít know anything about this stuff but it seems a patent/copyright doesnít mean much. Galaxy Gaming literally copies every one of Shufflemasters table games. Their latest Spanish 21 version literally copies the whole game but changes one payout. Iíve seen a number of casinos switch their games to the Galaxy version, presumably because their license fee is less. Doesnít seem right.



Are you certain one company isnt paying the other a patent license fee for their iteration?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SM777
SM777
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July 12th, 2018 at 8:46:26 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Are you certain one company isnt paying the other a patent license fee for their iteration?



Yes, that is certain.

All of those games being copied have no patents, and that is the problem. Galaxy just copies, and charges less.

Although to be fair, it seems the other way around. Shufflemaster finally made a copy of their own with Tri lux and it is popping up all over. Maybe charging less than 21+3 and giving Galaxy a taste of their own medicine?
darkoz
darkoz
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July 12th, 2018 at 9:24:28 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

Yes, that is certain.

All of those games being copied have no patents, and that is the problem. Galaxy just copies, and charges less.

Although to be fair, it seems the other way around. Shufflemaster finally made a copy of their own with Tri lux and it is popping up all over. Maybe charging less than 21+3 and giving Galaxy a taste of their own medicine?



Im confused i thought you said a patent didnt mean much?

If the games have no patent then there naturally is no protection
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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July 12th, 2018 at 9:43:24 AM permalink
95% of galaxyís table games offerings are shufflemaster games with a sidebet or two added, or a minor paytable tweak. Itís an obviously shameless, pathetic way of doing things but itís also obviously working for them looking at pits across the US. Yeah, shufflemaster did the same thing with a few from galaxy think itís just the way that business operates, lucky ladies, tri-lux, (hcf?) but itís not literally 90%+ of their offerings like galaxy.
SM777
SM777
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July 12th, 2018 at 9:50:00 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Im confused i thought you said a patent didnt mean much?

If the games have no patent then there naturally is no protection



When did I say this?

A patent on a felt table game is currently impossible to get unless there's a mechanical device or special deck of cards (as you mentioned). Hopefully this changes soon.

So from my view, pouring money and time into useless lawyers and experts is a horrendous idea. The result will end up in no patent.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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July 12th, 2018 at 10:33:05 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

95% of galaxyís table games offerings are shufflemaster games with a sidebet or two added, or a minor paytable tweak. Itís an obviously shameless, pathetic way of doing things but itís also obviously working for them looking at pits across the US. Yeah, shufflemaster did the same thing with a few from galaxy think itís just the way that business operates, lucky ladies, tri-lux, (hcf?) but itís not literally 90%+ of their offerings like galaxy.


How do you arrive at the "95%"/"literally 90%+" figures you cited above?
darkoz
darkoz
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July 12th, 2018 at 10:56:34 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

When did I say this?

A patent on a felt table game is currently impossible to get unless there's a mechanical device or special deck of cards (as you mentioned). Hopefully this changes soon.

So from my view, pouring money and time into useless lawyers and experts is a horrendous idea. The result will end up in no patent.



Sorry

Sandybestdog said patents dont mean much

Then i responded to him. You responded to me

You get the mixup
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
dogqck
dogqck
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
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July 12th, 2018 at 2:02:29 PM permalink
" The method of claim 1 wherein the method is executed on physical gaming table with physical playing cards provided from a physically randomized set of physical playing cards and the wager is committed by placement of a physical element on a wagering wager at the player position in an area on the gaming table identified for receiving committed wagers, and the specific predetermined value is between 7 and 11. "

Claim 3 of this just issued patent. Anybody care to comment ?

United States Patent Application 20180182211
Kind Code A1
Stream; Matthew Henry June 28, 2018


RAPID LOW TOTAL-CARD BLACKJACK-TYPE GAME

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